Thinking about a yote rifle, open discussion on .223 WSSM for yotes

Why not get a dtech 204 1-9 twist an shooting 50 gr berger tac powder, an a200 yd zero gives you real world,400yd yotes are doable if the wind is mello...pat
 
Originally Posted By: CaligaterI am one of the few here who likes the .223 WSSM (and probably one of the few who has actually owned one). I have the Browning and although I only have maybe 80 rounds through mine, the thing is a shooter, especially for a hunting rifle. Also it puts the hammer down on coyotes. You say you're buying a hunting rifle....how many coyotes do you think you'll shoot if you're worried about burning up the barrel? I only bought mine because I got a SMOKING good deal on one at Bass Pro Shops since most people are like the posters here and shy away from them. If you're hand loading, just don't load it so darn hot. I haven't crono'd mine, but I'm shooting 50gr V-Maxes with 41 grains of Varget and it shoots really well.

I have heard bad things about the Winchester, but the experience I have with my Browning has been nothing but positive.

Browning being the key word there, They are much better quality then their cheaper Winchester cousins that people are intrested in buying up. They seem to have some really good deals, on the Winny rifle cuz they didn't sell well.
A buddy of mine bought one in the model 70 Coyote and it wouldn't even chamber a round. He had to send it off and get the chamber reamed out buy Winchester. Now it will chamber a round, but won't shoot anything under a 2" group. Thats after 6 months of trying different hand loads, bedding, trigger work, etc....

 
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I believe the .223 wssm is an excellent coyote round. BUT....I have owned both Browning and Winchester WSSMs. The Brownings were definitely the better gun. I had feeding issues with all the Winchesters regardless of model. The Brownings all shot exceptionally well and I don't recall having any feeding issues with them. I shed them all ultimately, mainly out fear of not being able to find/afford ammo or components. Went back to more "mainstream" calibers.

That being said, I would love a .243wssm or .25wssm upper for my AR. Funny world.
 
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Originally Posted By: MPFDI am one of the few here who likes the .223 WSSM (and probably one of the few who has actually owned one)......

I owned one (Browning 223 WSM) a few years back when they first came out - note past tense.....

The WSM cartridges seem to be a fad that have out ran their time... Where I live I have access to some large national chain sporting goods stores as well as a good selection of independents, some fairlly large. If you find rifles, both new and used, on sale and discounted significantly, they are almost always in WSM calibers.

-BCB
 
I researched the 223 wssm quite a bit and decided to get a 22-250. I decided I had a better chance of getting a good 22-250 than I did getting a good 223 wssm. I have also came across a lot of people expressing dissatisfaction in getting warranty work done on their 223 wssm. I figure they are a bit like Ferraris; they are only fun when they run right and you have the money to throw at them.
 
Originally Posted By: Bayou City Boy
MPFD said:
I am one of the few here who likes the .223 WSSM (and probably one of the few who has actually owned one)......


I didn't post that. I must not of got his quote right? But, I must admit that I am really interested in a 25 WSSM upper for my AR.
Click to expand...
 
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Originally Posted By: MPFDI didn't post that. I must not of got his quote right? But, I must admit that I am really interested in a 25 WSSM upper for my AR.

Your post looks different now....
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OK....Caligator owns one... I owned one at one time... I "No Mo" own one...

IMO, there are better solutions to certain issues... The WSM cartridges were not the answer to any existing issues...

-BCB
 
I agree that there are better all around choices out there. I hand load and brass is readily available (for now), but I will admit that I am about to stockpile some more brass for when the quite making it. I guess my only point is that I have had good luck with mine, and it was SO cheap that I don't in any way regret picking it up. If it wasn't such a good deal, I would have just gotten a .204, .223 or 22-250.
 
If you want the fastest factory cartridge on the planet, get the 223wssm, but get it in a Browning. Hornaday's current reloading manual list's a load @4,600fps with the 40gr Vmax.

The 223wssm is what it is: the fastest factory cartridge on the planet. Some guys drive Porsche's, some guys drive Yugo's.
 
I cant say anything about the 223 wssm But had a 243 wssm in a winchester m70 and after 5 boxes of winchester factory 55gr bullets the throat was clear gone.The casing were spliting clear down the neck in 2 or 3 places.Winchester sent me a new one and i sold it for a savage in .243win and never looked back
 
Question - if a 223 WSSM is kicking a bullet out @ x fps, and a, say, 220 Swift or 243 Win is kicking a similar weight bullet out at the same or similar speed, shouldn't the "barrel burning" be similar in so far as approximate rounds fired till there is a significant accuracy loss? I'm not experienced at such things and will most likely never fire enuf rounds in one gun to even find out - I'm just asking those who have done it multiple times. Maybe better stated, doesn't a certain amount of velocity, heat and pressure act similarly on similar barrel steels, assuming components are similar. I do realize that different powders may burn hotter or cooler, and pressures at different points in the firing process may vary.
 
Originally Posted By: Bayou City Boy The WSM cartridges were not the answer to any existing issues...

-BCB

but wait, the "black rifle" people will tell you the .243 wssm's are the cats meow, can't have it both ways!!! My cousin has a .223Wssm and I have one of the .243Wssm's and both are in the Winchester rifle and both shoot great, and no we haven't went through a barrel yet...
 
Originally Posted By: Mike BQuestion - if a 223 WSSM is kicking a bullet out @ x fps, and a, say, 220 Swift or 243 Win is kicking a similar weight bullet out at the same or similar speed, shouldn't the "barrel burning" be similar in so far as approximate rounds fired till there is a significant accuracy loss? I'm not experienced at such things and will most likely never fire enuf rounds in one gun to even find out - I'm just asking those who have done it multiple times. Maybe better stated, doesn't a certain amount of velocity, heat and pressure act similarly on similar barrel steels, assuming components are similar. I do realize that different powders may burn hotter or cooler, and pressures at different points in the firing process may vary.

I agree with you 100000% and have asked the same question, but no one has an answer I am willing to believe. It's all about physics, same bullet, same speed, etc.. et.. = same results irregardless of caliber.
 
I just picked up a Browning in 223wssm in like new condition. Less than 20rounds fired. $270.00 out the door with tax. Figured the action and stock were worth that.
First load I tried shot 4 into about 1.5" at 100. OK, not great but not bad. 4 power scope, new trigger to learn, un sized new brass and Nosler 60 grain seconds. I'm happy. Changed out the scope, spent the evening dry firing. Same load is now right at 1" at 100. So I have a truck gun that is cheap, light and compact, accurate enough for yotes and such. Not for everyone but works for me.
 
Originally Posted By: sluggerOriginally Posted By: Bayou City Boy The WSM cartridges were not the answer to any existing issues...

-BCB

but wait, the "black rifle" people will tell you the .243 wssm's are the cats meow, can't have it both ways!!! My cousin has a .223Wssm and I have one of the .243Wssm's and both are in the Winchester rifle and both shoot great, and no we haven't went through a barrel yet...

"but wait," I own several black rifles but I have no desire to own one in a WSSM caliber. I'm not looking to go "both ways"

Enjoy yours... I'm sure they are the best thing since sliced bread.... One thing about them...when they do wear out you'll be able to find bargains to replace them.

-BCB
 
MikeB,

I think you are mostly correct. I don't think bullet speed has anything to do with barrel burnout, other than needing a lot of powder to generate more speed.

If bullet speed was a big factor in barrel wear, the muzzle would/should show significant wear. Instead, it's the throat that literally burns out.

In a given caliber, it appears to take about 20-25% more powder to gain 5-7% more speed.
 
Originally Posted By: K-22hornet.MikeB,

I think you are mostly correct. I don't think bullet speed has anything to do with barrel burnout, other than needing a lot of powder to generate more speed.

If bullet speed was a big factor in barrel wear, the muzzle would/should show significant wear. Instead, it's the throat that literally burns out.

In a given caliber, it appears to take about 20-25% more powder to gain 5-7% more speed.

Yep, that makes sense with what I've read on the subject so far. Basically, more overbore = faster throat burnout. And I see that a 223 WSSM appears a bit more overbore than a220 Swift. Looks like it may beat the Swift in pure velocity by a little with the heavier bullets, but with more powder and pressure too. Gotta be more heat too. Then again, why would anyone want a 22-243? OR 22-6mm? Speed, and they're even more overbore. And you get a little shorter, little lighter action and maybe stiffer too with that speed FWIW. If they're going that cheap, I may get one! I'll never wear out the first 100 brass anyhow! LOL! Should shoot like a laser.
 
The reason the 243 and 25 WSSM's (not the 223 wssm) are so popular in a AR configuration is you can have a upper built that will shoot a high power large caliber cartridge (.243, .257, 6.5mm, 7mm, .308, .338, .358) out of the cheaper smaller framed AR 15 lower receiver. Kind of nice to be able pin a high powered rifle upper to your existing lower. Previously if you wanted a true high power cartridge in an AR you had to buy an AR 10 which was a much more expensive lower receiver, and parts over all. Thats the only reason AR owners love WSSM's. They are just as hard on an black guns as they are on a bolt guns. Now that Remington has the R25=AR10 on the market for about $200-300 more then the R15 it's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.
 
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So guys I really like this "get a .243 then you have a back up deer rifle" approach, I wonder which would be best in that approach? A .243 wssm or the .25 wssm?? seems the .25 might have a wee bit of an edge over the other in terms of bullet weight and its not like quarter bores have ever had trouble killing deer *when they were given good bullets to work with* ever heard of teh .257 Wetherby Mag? Im thinking of comparing the .25 wssm to it and maybe going that route.


FYI, i been snooping on Winchesters web site. Seems they don't have any faith in their own super short mags any more. None of the model 70 rifles listed a single Super Short Mag cartridge. HHHhhhmmm I wonder what that means for all WSSM's??
 
FYI I don't think it likely I will be wanting to keep the coats from the yotes. Most fur hunters I know have been saying the fur cotes on these Missouri dogs are pitiful and you can't get any thing for em. They maybe the kind to lie to protect they own honey hole though. lol
If I did want to keep the coats, what would I use?
 
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