RRA suck

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Wow haven't seem an RRA hater in a while. The post obviously came from another internet warrior who believes that since something is "mil spec" it is the best. Not always the case. Some mil spec standards in ar platform rifles date back three or four decades. Mil spec is for interoperability, ease of maintenance and standards for testing. Sometimes that is the best and sometimes commercial improvements are far above "mil spec" quality. I am sure the guy who made the original post has had several Rock River Rifles fail in his "high speed" competitions. I would be happy to take the broken pieces if he would like to send them to me. In fact if anyone wants to get rid of their inferior spikes, bushmasters, surplus arms and ammo or any other brand I would be happy to take them off your hands
 
It's what you want out of your rifle. If you are looking for a Modern Sporting Rifle then commercial rifles are fine. If you are a hunter, commercial rifles are fine. If you want to take a rifle into the sandbox, that might be another story, but most of us here aren't going there anytime soon. Now let's really think about what MIL SPEC means. Good enough enough quality that it meets the minimum standard of the government at the cheapest price (won a government bid).

Now having said that I still prefer Mil spec rifles, but it doesn't mean that commercial rifles are junk. I find some commercial rifles to be way over priced too by the way. Colt makes a decent rifle but so do other mil spec companies like Daniel Defense, Spikes Tactical, Bravo Company, Knights Armament, LMT, LWRC, Noveske, Sig, Black rain and many more.

Find a rifle that you like and be happy. I always find it interesting that people want to know what rifle or handgun to buy as if X brand will turn you into a better hunter or more capable operator. I ask people this question often. You need to hire a carpenter. You have two choices a man that owns a hammer that cost $300 that just started in the carpenter business or a master carpenter who swings a $30 hammer. Which one would you hire?

Fellas, the truth is that it is less about hardware and more about the nut behind the butt (of the rifle of course). People always want to buy a shortcut. Whatever you buy you have to develop the skills to use the tool. The tool doesn't shoot itself.

Sorry, I was up on a soapbox for a moment, but I can get carried away easily.
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Opinions are like a@@holes....everybody's got one.

I don't get the point of bashing the M4 Carbine forum or its members.....I enjoy it, along with PM and a couple of others.

YMMV

George
 
Originally Posted By: DennyrIf you think RR gets a bad rap on those sites type in "Olympic".

I've read so much bad about Olympic that when I shot my friend's rifle I wasn't expecting much. He had some sort of match rifle that when you took the rifle off of safe, you could push the safety forward and it acted like a set trigger on that rifle and lighten the trigger pull.

I thought that was the weirdest AR trigger in the world. After shooting it with the set trigger off of the bench, I then thought that was cool. I thought that the trigger wouldn't be one for combat, but it was an interesting one for shooting yotes or any other hunting AR.

Maybe it wouldn't be my first choice, but if the gun was given to me, I sure wouldn't turn it down.
 
If you think RR gets a bad rap on those sites type in "Olympic".

I have an Oly full auto conversion. I have more than 10K rounds through it and have never had one issue what so ever. I'm ready to finally replace the magazine catch, but that's probably due to using surplus mags over the years. I now have an Oly in 234wssm and have no issue with that either. I love my Armalites but can't honestly say they are significantly better performance wise.
 
1. What is a sh@t ton of ammo?
2. You asked a question and received an answer from a very reputable armorer.
3 If you want to shoot RRA go ahead who cares? Most guys on M4carbine aren't using there rifles for hunting purposes. If that's what you want it for go head, no one is stopping you.

I personally view any weapon for what it is a weapon. I guess to you guys I would be a snob and I can accept that.

Just in case, I spent time in the Marine Corps Infantry along with quite a few years in the PMC world. I have plenty of trips downrange.
 
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I shoot my DPMS for coyotes, a RRA and Colt HBAR in the President’s 100 matches, and a CMMG for deer and pigs. All work every time, all are totally dependable, and all bring me joy from their use. You will be happy with any of these or other reputable brands.

Lots of good advice on this site about what works for predators and the AR platform is a wonderful system to build upon toward something that works for YOU. Don’t worry if it’s ‘MIL-SPEC’ or not as lots of the stuff issued to me for Iraq and Afghanistan wasn’t ‘MIL-SPEC’ either.
 
Just so you know spine I spent my time down range also. I served in Iraq and I was not some pog. I have plenty of time on weapon systems. No I am not a respected armorer but I know a good weapon when I use one. It was not to be a pissing match. I was just saying how some things about RRA that were not mil-spec were actually better then mil spec. I even put on there that the one thing that I dont like about RRA is how the barrel is not 4150steel. My post got shut down because I was going against the grain. Whatever. I just love how some people are so closed minded when it comes to firearms. Yea its not your service weapon. Most service weapons issued to your grunts are junk anyways.Seemed like most your pogs had the good [beeep]. I am not kicking in doors with my RRA. If I had to I would have plenty of faith in it. Its funny because comparing RRA vs. Colt or any non mil-spec AR vs. Mil-spec is kind of like comparing Gas Impigment vs. Gas piston. I dont have a gas piston AR but it does not mean its a cheap over priced junk AR. I would have loved to have had my RRA AR when I was in Iraq over my Colt mil-spec.
 
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First thanks for your service.

I don't believe you were shutdown for going against the grain it was more or less the post was going to get out of control, to me it look liked you were getting pretty amped up over the deal also so it was probably best it was shutdown. I run gas impingement because I don't have use for a piston, I don't run a suppressor or shoot at the cyclic rate. Mil-spec is thrown around but we have to remember Colt has the TDP so it will be the closest you can get to a mil-spec.

Personally I run the rifle I like and could care less what others have. I bought the parts I wanted and built what I wanted. Just recently I did a well known pistol instructor course and the topic of the internet came up. A very well respected shooter for one of the biggest pistol companies in the world was there and we were joking about "forum knowledge". At the end of the day use what you want man, that's what I do.
 
There is a lot of misinformation this thread. Anyone that thinks "milspec" simply means the cheapest parts at the minimum standard has never had to work in an environment where they had to meet milspec. Anyone who thinks the Saturn 5 Moon rocket was simply made up of millions of the CHEAPEST parts they could get knows nothing about aerospace. Anyone that thinks the members of M4C are nothing but old fat bodies playing at war knows nothing of those on that forum or the knowledge and experience they have.

What's ironic is folks talking about how a "milspec" AR is built by the cheapest bidder to the minimum specs on one hand but tell us they don't need "milspec" toughness on the other because they aren't going to war. Then tell us there are parts of a commercial AR (that they won't go to war with) that are better.

RRA doesn't build to "milspec" (which is ok, because we aren't going to war), which is better than a Colt because a Colt (which is good to go to war with) is overpriced although in my neck of the woods, a RRA costs the same and sometimes more than a Colt of the same configuration.

Added to all of this is the bashing another forum, something that's bad form, unprofessional, may be against the rules of this forum and is certainly against the rules at M4C.

PM is a good forum and has a solid core of knowledgeable and experienced members in area of expertise this board is dedicated to, but with all due respect, it's not the "go to" place for hard use ARs
 
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M4 Carbine is hardly a Colt or nothing forum. Sounds like you asked a question and didn't get the answer you wanted to hear so you came to this forum to complain about it.

M4C is probably the most technical oriented AR forum. There are a large number of industry professionals that post there. These include many current and former special operations members, contractors who performed depot level small arms maintainance in Iraq and Afghanistan for the DOD, research managers with highly regarded companies with current small arms contracts with USSOCOM, law enforcement tactical officers, and highly regarded tactical instructors.

If you ask a question about quality, durability, and overall servicability they will give you a straight no B.S. answer. There are plenty of lower quality AR's that will give perfectly acceptable service as a hunting rifle but hunting is not what that forum is oriented toward so don't get your feeling hurt.
 
Well said. Most people on this forum seem to love their RRA. RRA makes a great hunting AR and they serve this forum well.
 
For the guys on M4C its not about printing smaller groups than your RRA. Most of them are perfectly fine with 1-2 MOA. For them its about knowing that your weapon won't let you down should the need ever arise that you have to count on it for protection of your life, your family, your country...etc. From their personal experiences as trainers, participants in high round training classes, industry professionals and real world sscenarios, there are better choices for them than RRA. But its not just RRA, there are quite a few other brands that people on here hunt with that they group into the same category.
I guess you could call me an AR snob too, but with that being said, I would not hesitate to hunt with a RRA, but I would not buy one. For a little more money than what RRA's cost I can buy or build an AR that will print as small of groups as a RRA, but I will have confidence in it that it won't let me down should the need ever arise that I need it for more than just hunting.
 
Originally Posted By: MistWolfThere is a lot of misinformation this thread. Anyone that thinks "milspec" simply means the cheapest parts at the minimum standard has never had to work in an environment where they had to meet milspec. Anyone who thinks the Saturn 5 Moon rocket was simply made up of millions of the CHEAPEST parts they could get knows nothing about aerospace. Anyone that thinks the members of M4C are nothing but old fat bodies playing at war knows nothing of those on that forum or the knowledge and experience they have.

What's ironic is folks talking about how a "milspec" AR is built by the cheapest bidder to the minimum specs on one hand but tell us they don't need "milspec" toughness on the other because they aren't going to war. Then tell us there are parts of a commercial AR (that they won't go to war with) that are better.

RRA doesn't build to "milspec" (which is ok, because we aren't going to war), which is better than a Colt because a Colt (which is good to go to war with) is overpriced although in my neck of the woods, a RRA costs the same and sometimes more than a Colt of the same configuration.

Added to all of this is the bashing another forum, something that's bad form, unprofessional, may be against the rules of this forum and is certainly against the rules at M4C.

PM is a good forum and has a solid core of knowledgeable and experienced members in area of expertise this board is dedicated to, but with all due respect, it's not the "go to" place for hard use ARs

I retired from NASA 10 years ago after working as a Stress Analysis engineer there for 33 years. My job was in the VAB, the "Vehicle Assembly Building" for those of you that don't know. So I DO happen to know a thing or two about those old Saturn 5's. Maybe it's YOU that doesn't know anything about aerospace. The Apollo 1 fire changed all that from the CHEAPEST to a mix of cheap and higher price, when the Shuttle came out it was a mix and was the best we ever had until they started trying to cut the turn around times. It was the companies that pushed for the higher priced parts while NASA had to stay in budget. And NO I'm not one of the ones that made the decisions, that was above my pay grade. The last Saturn 5 was launched May 14, 1973, so since YOU know about them then you must be an old retired man like me.

I don't remember attacking any other form and might have missed any rule on here about that BUT I DO remember several rules on here about members attacking OTHER members. Maybe they need to start enforcing that rule to make it equal for ALL MEMBERS. To attack another member who has done NOTHING against the posting member is the most unprofessional of them all.
 
This is a PREDATOR site, not a BRAND site...Everyone is entitled to their personal preferences without attacks on those preferences...If it can't be kept in that vein, I will have no problem locking this thread down...

Over the years, I've had about nine ARs of different brands, including two Colts that are now history, as well as some other less well known brands...Each has had their strong points and each has had their weak points...

If you have something positive or helpful to say in response to a question posed, great, but bashing other brands, another's opinions, or each other will not be tolerated..
 
I was not at all disappointed with my first and only Rock River. 18 inch varminter shot dime size groups right out the box with the first load I tried. I'm an Aerospace machinist with 38 years on the job so I tend to know when something is well made and Rock River ARs are as solid as they come. Grizz
 
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