Predator extreme writer Jon Sundra going Zumbo on us?

YoteSackbuster

YoteSackbuster

New member
I've been purchasing Predator Xtreme magazine for a while. This magazine is mainly for the coyote hunter.

Jon R. Sundra has been spouting off for some time about about AR15 rifles not being the firearm choice of ethical hunters. Here's a current (Feb 2009) letter to the editor and Sundra's response:

------------

AR's and Ethics

"In the June issue article "ARs as Hunting Rifles?" the author states "I'm too much of a traditionalist to ever consider using an AR for any sort of big game hunting. On the contrary, I like single shot rifles even more than bolt-action repeaters, because to me, having only one shot available elevates hunting to a higher sporting and ethical plane." I disagree. As an ethical hunter I want my game to drop where I shot them, but I have wounded a few. Having a rapid second shot to quickly finish a wounded animal is the only ethical thing to do to end the suffering. - Rolland.

REPONSE FROM JON SUNDRA - I wish there was statistical data to back me up... but I don't think there is. I'm absolutely certain that hunters using single shot rifles would be proven to wound less game than with any other rifle type. As for rapidity of fire, no respecting hunter using a single shot rifle would not have follow-up rounds readily handy - like tucked under a wrist band on the off hand where they are but inches away from the lever on the open action of a falling block rifle. With practice, one can get off an aimed follow-up shot in seconds. I don't consider that much of a disadvantage compared to other action types. - Jon R. Subdra

----------------

Another one in the Feb 2009 issue:

AR Aficionado

I just received my latest issue and overall, it is very good. However, I have to take issue with Jon Sundra's R-15 article "A New Era begins". The new era's "beginning" happened years ago but Mr. Sundra wasn't paying attention. For most of us predator hunters, the AR platform (.223, .204 & 6.5 Grendal) based rifle has been slamming predators for years. What really rocked me was his statement, "I don't think we'll see the day when an AR-type rifle will match the accuracy of a finely tuned bolt-action varmint rifle, etc.". A quality AR platform rifle is capable of one hole, seven shot groups. My AR in .223, without a bull barrel also shoots very tight groups. - Regards, Rick

REPONSE FROM JON - Yes, I've been way behind the curve on AR-platform rifles, but only in the sense of my personal involvement. I've been well aware of what's been going on and readily admit to the efficacy of these rifles in predator hunting. In fact, they may be the best choice for predator hunting. However, as to accuracy, until AR-platform rifles start winning benchrest record or besting existing accuracy records, I stand by my statement. - John R. Sundra

-------------------

In the Feb 2009 issue, Sundra goes on to make comments about the AR platform in his column. It's ironic that he choses to make remarks about the lack of bench rest accuracy in the AR, and then talks about 30-30 lever guns as varmint rifles. He does admit that "the semi-auto as an action type is probably the most effective and practical of all. Nothing is faster on follow-up shot; there's no betraying movement required to reload, and accuracy and range are not issues." He then goes on to pick the Ruger Mini-14 as his choice for a predator rifle over the AR "because it is slimmer and smaller". Wait, what about accuracy? Oh, got that covered. He claims the new ones are delivering MOA performance.

--------------------

It's obvious Jon R. Sundra is not keen on AR rifles for hunting, and makes disparaging remarks about hunting ethics of those using them. It's ironic that with the bad image varmint and predator hunting has among some people and even other hunters (like those who say "if I don't eat it, I won't shoot it"), Sundra then turns around and questions the ethics of some of his own subgroup. He then displays ignorance about AR accuracy, then praises the Mini-Blaster. And if the single shot rifle is all about ethical hunting and accuracy, why tout the 30-30, with its inaccuracy and magazine capacity that matches the legal hunting capacity of the AR in many states?

In short, Sundra is simply displaying his prejudice and ignorance about AR rifles. Shades of Jim Zumbo!

---------------------

What can you do about this horsecrap from yet another divisive gun writer?

Copy and paste this information to other gun and hunting discussion boards.

Go to http://www.predatorxtreme.com/default.aspx and vote in the current poll asking if you hunt with AR type rifles or stick to traditional guns.

Email your complaints and concerns to editor Ralph M. Lermayer ralph@grandviewmedia.com. Remind him that his motto is "Hunt hard, shoot straight, kill clean, apologize to no one." Unless, of course, you're a hunter using an AR, according to Jon R. Sundra.
 
I kinda thought the same thing after reading all he wrote in PX... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

I don't know where he gets his Mini 14's, but thay aren't slimmer or lighter than my AR that I hunt with all the time...
Ruger says that they worked the bugs out of the Mini 14. At least that's what they told me at ShotShow...
I hefted one, & it didn't seem anything but heavier than my M-4 still.

The thing about most gunwriters is that their POV is terribly tainted by sponsorships, gimmes', and who they work for. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Interesting observation about the AR, YSB!

I think I'll keep huntin' with what has been killin' them for me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Barry
 
Mybe write him a polite letter, saying he's entitled to his personal opinion on ARs as hunting rifles.

Then say: "Jim Zumbo expressed a similar opinion, going so far as accusing hunters using ARs of being "terrorists". Perhaps you should clarify your stance on ARs before it leads to a serious backlash."


Then sit back and watch.

We can get rid of him overnight, and he should know it. He's in a niche market, and his customers are quite organized and willing to protect their rights.
From the statements he's made on weapon choice for predator hunting, it wouldn't be hard to find a more knowledgeable writer on the subject, in my opinion.
 
the debate over gun/caliber/action is as old as guns them selves.

the problem here is he's treading on a group of gun owners that have been & still are under attack.

anyone who tries to claim a Mini-14 is perfectly fine but an AR isn't is so full of steamy bull squeeze it's running out their ears. No further attention needs to be paid to any drivel coming from them.
 
When will they learn??? No bad guns only bad people. The worst law ever passed was the NFA in the 30's, it set the stage for this "bad gun" crap. Sundra should make his feelings clear or be gone.
 
Being a rational thinking guy, I say, a bullet exits the muzzle at a certain velocity. Who give at crap what configuration rifle is behind it?

The danger in having someone like Dumbo/Sundro make statements like they make is all of the infantiles swallow what Dumbo says, hook line and sinker. And, they use that against us.
And, neither one of those guys cares about what they say, and the consequences of their statements. That is irresponsibility in full bloom.

Martyn
 
Last edited:
He's just another one of the "Hollywood type" hunter that covers the air waves today. They hunt the same way, the same places week after week. Every Saturday morning it's all the same bunch.

These Saturday morning hunters are just entertainment. So I take what they say as entertainment also...
 
You will not change his attitude, so don't waste your time and electrons (used to be Ink /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif)....

But contacting the editors and advertisers about his irresponsibility can have a serious effect...since their motives are to sell either goods or magazines...

I have no problem with those that don't think, feel, or act as I do....whether it's "boar hunting' with a knife, squirrel hunting with #8 buckshot, etc., but when you are in a position to publicly put down someone else's practices, then you have a responsibility to keep your personal ideas to the practice of safety... unless you are responding to a direct request for your personal opinion..

There are those "purists" that choose their own hunting style, whether they use only their knives, arrows, single shots, black powder, etc....and I applaud their ability to do so...and they can go their way, I'll go mine...
 
Gonna play devils advocate here. First, I will say I have not read the article(s) mentioned here, but based on what was quoted, Sundra's comments are a long way from Zumbo's. Didn't Zumbo basically claim that the AR was a 'terrorist' weapon, or something like that. Sundras comments are more along the lines of being an elistist a$$. Based on Sundras above quotes, anyone who shoots a remington 700 adl/bdl should be offended.
There seems to be a hypersensitivity to anything negative said in regards to an AR style rifle. I personally dont care for them as a hunting rifle. To me, they are nose heavy, have an awkward cheek weld, and dont carry comfortably when slung over the shoulder. Before you dog pile me though, I think anyone who likes them, should be allowed to use them.
If I was gonna raise objection to anything Sundra said, it would be to his comments about ethics and the single shot rifle. His comments play right into the hands of some enemies of the 2A who feel single shots are all thats neede for hunting(remember the Cooper rifles ordeal). Truthfully, affective, efficient(ethical) killing of prey is achieved by some one who knows their weapon and has practiced with it extensively.

Maintain
 
We stand at the edge of losing our guns to lord Obama and company. Then you get blowhards like this guy. Now is not the time to become divided over who shoots what, or allow our selves to be distracted by a clown that will probably be one of the first to stand and point a finger at all his buddies that have guns and say, "take theres first".
 
Yotesackbuster suggested that we email Mr. Lermayer,the editor of PX for a reply to these accusations.I did just that.I included a link to this thread with the following:

Mr. Lermayer,
I would respectfully reccommend that you take a moment to see how another

Jim Zumbo problem is rising at your magazine.

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubb...;gonew=1#UNREAD

The predator community is a niche that your magazine depends on.
These types of comments would certainly get my attention if I were you.
Your magazine is highly popular to most of these guys, but that could
change quickly.

Sincerely,

Mr Lermayer was extremely prompt and courteous with a reply as follows:

February 9, 2009



Dear Mr._____



Thank you. I was able to view the posting by clicking on your link. I’m not a member of that group, so I’m unable to respond.



PX Reader Letters is a place where I give a lot of latitude to opinions. I value the opinions of all hunters and shooters, including those that are critical. I receive huge volumes of letters with each issue, and always make it a point to publish the critical ones, to give our readers a voice.



Jon’s responses were to private letters written directly to him. He agreed to allow them to be published because he also values the opinions of all readers. The bottom line is reflected in direct quotes from his responses:



“In fact, they may be the best choice for predator hunting.”



"The semi-auto as an action type is probably the most effective and practical of all. Nothing is faster on follow-up shot; there's no betraying movement required to reload, and accuracy and range are not issues."



That definitely doesn’t qualify as slamming or vilifying the AR. It is in no way Zumbo-grade.



PX coverage has included ARs. In the June 2008 issue, ARs As Hunting Rifles (Jon Sundra). Same issue, AR roundup (Mike Schoby), showing the evolution of ARs to legitimate hunting weapons. October 2008 issue, Review of Remington’s R15, A New Era Begins (Jon Sundra). Obviously, we devote a lot of space to the AR platform, and will continue to do so, because my objective at PX is to provide spot-on, timely information to a broad range of our readers.



Last spring, Jon submitted a story for consideration extolling the virtues of Remington’s new R15. I bought it. That feature (Oct. ’08) elicited dozens of letters complimenting Jon’s coverage of the new AR. His feature on the other actions, reviewing everything but bolt guns, was broken into a four-part series by me, and inserted into my “From The Bench” section. Jon is not a staff writer for PX. We have no staff writers, except for columnists. Like hundreds of others he simply queries me with story ideas, and if I think it is a fit that will benefit a broad range of PX readers, I put it in the lineup. I believe Jon Sundra did a fair job on all of the action style pieces, pointing out what he perceives to be the strengths and weakness of each action style. Like of all us, he has his preferences. I have no problem with him (or anybody) saying “I choose not to use this for big game hunting.” But I would never allow anyone in the pages of PX to say “YOU shouldn’t use this. . .”



Personally, my Rock River is one of my favorite predator hunting rigs. Our surveys have shown a majority of our readers either use or want to use an AR for predator hunting. I am in that group. I’m not particularly fond of pump guns, never have been, I always forget to cycle the darn things! I guess voicing that opinion makes me anti-pump and will no doubt elicit angry comments painting me as anti-gun because there is a particular style of firearm that is not my favorite. That’s the way some on the chat rooms seem to react.



Should any of the posters want to share their opinions with our readers, they are welcome to submit reader letters for consideration for publication. Their opinions will be read by hundreds of thousands of our readers. Our numbers are substantial. However, unlike the forums, they are going to have to actually put their name and address behind their opinions, so we can validate that they are legitimate.



As to the “Hollywood Hunters” post – I wouldn’t know. I don’t have a TV and my Saturday mornings, like most all of my mornings are spent breaking a colt, working a field, working up a load, editing a magazine, or, in fact, hunting (primarily predators). I guess there are guys out there who spend their Saturdays watching these shows, I don’t.



Thank you again for bringing this to my attention. Shooters are, and should be, passionate and sensitive about defending our sport. Right now, HR25 (US Representative, Bobby Rush, D-IL) is working its way through Congress – a bill that could permanently remove our rights to own and use firearms. It probably represents the single greatest threat the shooting community will ever face. Given the control of the current House, Senate and White House by the opposition, we, collectively, are in for the fight of our lives. I certainly hope all of these posters will demonstrate that passion when it comes time to align against an actual enemy – not simply someone voicing their preferences. If there was ever a time for the shooting community to pull together, it’s now.



Hunt hard, shoot straight, kill clean and apologize to no one!



Ralph M. Lermayer

Editor, Predator Xtreme



He's made some valid points as far as I'm concerned.My only question is how did we miss this guy as a member?
 
Quote:
He's just another one of the "Hollywood type" hunter that covers the air waves today. They hunt the same way, the same places week after week. Every Saturday morning it's all the same bunch.

These Saturday morning hunters are just entertainment. So I take what they say as entertainment also...



Apparently you know NOTHING about Jon Sundra. He's NOT Dumbo, or even close. PX is a rag, at best. They are lucky to even have a guy that has been around as long as Sundra and knows his schitt that well. Believe me, He's pro gun all the way......
 
Quote:
Apparently you know NOTHING about Jon Sundra.



I really don't. Stating that a single-shot is an outstanding choice for a predator rifle doesn't make him sound real swift, though. I guess if he's talking a .30 cal. single shot, and he doesn't ever intend to try for a double, he has a decent point. Saying that somehow a single shot rifle makes you a better shot is laughable. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I'm just sayin
 
Quote:
Yotesackbuster suggested that we email Mr. Lermayer,the editor of PX for a reply to these accusations.I did just that.I included a link to this thread with the following:

Mr. Lermayer,
I would respectfully reccommend that you take a moment to see how another

Jim Zumbo problem is rising at your magazine.

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubb...;gonew=1#UNREAD

The predator community is a niche that your magazine depends on.
These types of comments would certainly get my attention if I were you.
Your magazine is highly popular to most of these guys, but that could
change quickly.

Sincerely,

Mr Lermayer was extremely prompt and courteous with a reply as follows:

February 9, 2009



Dear Mr._____



Thank you. I was able to view the posting by clicking on your link. I’m not a member of that group, so I’m unable to respond.



PX Reader Letters is a place where I give a lot of latitude to opinions. I value the opinions of all hunters and shooters, including those that are critical. I receive huge volumes of letters with each issue, and always make it a point to publish the critical ones, to give our readers a voice.



Jon’s responses were to private letters written directly to him. He agreed to allow them to be published because he also values the opinions of all readers. The bottom line is reflected in direct quotes from his responses:



“In fact, they may be the best choice for predator hunting.”



"The semi-auto as an action type is probably the most effective and practical of all. Nothing is faster on follow-up shot; there's no betraying movement required to reload, and accuracy and range are not issues."



That definitely doesn’t qualify as slamming or vilifying the AR. It is in no way Zumbo-grade.



PX coverage has included ARs. In the June 2008 issue, ARs As Hunting Rifles (Jon Sundra). Same issue, AR roundup (Mike Schoby), showing the evolution of ARs to legitimate hunting weapons. October 2008 issue, Review of Remington’s R15, A New Era Begins (Jon Sundra). Obviously, we devote a lot of space to the AR platform, and will continue to do so, because my objective at PX is to provide spot-on, timely information to a broad range of our readers.



Last spring, Jon submitted a story for consideration extolling the virtues of Remington’s new R15. I bought it. That feature (Oct. ’08) elicited dozens of letters complimenting Jon’s coverage of the new AR. His feature on the other actions, reviewing everything but bolt guns, was broken into a four-part series by me, and inserted into my “From The Bench” section. Jon is not a staff writer for PX. We have no staff writers, except for columnists. Like hundreds of others he simply queries me with story ideas, and if I think it is a fit that will benefit a broad range of PX readers, I put it in the lineup. I believe Jon Sundra did a fair job on all of the action style pieces, pointing out what he perceives to be the strengths and weakness of each action style. Like of all us, he has his preferences. I have no problem with him (or anybody) saying “I choose not to use this for big game hunting.” But I would never allow anyone in the pages of PX to say “YOU shouldn’t use this. . .”



Personally, my Rock River is one of my favorite predator hunting rigs. Our surveys have shown a majority of our readers either use or want to use an AR for predator hunting. I am in that group. I’m not particularly fond of pump guns, never have been, I always forget to cycle the darn things! I guess voicing that opinion makes me anti-pump and will no doubt elicit angry comments painting me as anti-gun because there is a particular style of firearm that is not my favorite. That’s the way some on the chat rooms seem to react.



Should any of the posters want to share their opinions with our readers, they are welcome to submit reader letters for consideration for publication. Their opinions will be read by hundreds of thousands of our readers. Our numbers are substantial. However, unlike the forums, they are going to have to actually put their name and address behind their opinions, so we can validate that they are legitimate.



As to the “Hollywood Hunters” post – I wouldn’t know. I don’t have a TV and my Saturday mornings, like most all of my mornings are spent breaking a colt, working a field, working up a load, editing a magazine, or, in fact, hunting (primarily predators). I guess there are guys out there who spend their Saturdays watching these shows, I don’t.



Thank you again for bringing this to my attention. Shooters are, and should be, passionate and sensitive about defending our sport. Right now, HR25 (US Representative, Bobby Rush, D-IL) is working its way through Congress – a bill that could permanently remove our rights to own and use firearms. It probably represents the single greatest threat the shooting community will ever face. Given the control of the current House, Senate and White House by the opposition, we, collectively, are in for the fight of our lives. I certainly hope all of these posters will demonstrate that passion when it comes time to align against an actual enemy – not simply someone voicing their preferences. If there was ever a time for the shooting community to pull together, it’s now.



Hunt hard, shoot straight, kill clean and apologize to no one!



Ralph M. Lermayer

Editor, Predator Xtreme



He's made some valid points as far as I'm concerned.My only question is how did we miss this guy as a member?



I agree w/ you AZ. This is a good response.

Based on the antics of the likes of Zumbo and Dapper Dan Cooper I think we have good reason to be a little skittish about some of our own turning to the dark side of the force. I just don't think it has happened here, but it IS good to be ever vigilant.

BTW, I really like the PX Magazine and always read it cover to cover when it comes in the mail. Just my opinion.
 
That was polite enough, and got the point across. The editor is aware of our concerns.

Now watch him.

I respect his opinion, even though I don't agree with it, but there are limits. Zumbo learned that and this guy better be aware of them.

Time will tell. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Quote:
If I was gonna raise objection to anything Sundra said, it would be to his comments about ethics and the single shot rifle. His comments play right into the hands of some enemies of the 2A who feel single shots are all thats neede for hunting(remember the Cooper rifles ordeal). Truthfully, affective, efficient(ethical) killing of prey is achieved by some one who knows their weapon and has practiced with it extensively.

Maintain



Just a reminder................ the 2nd Amendment has nothing at all to do with hunting....and everything to do with tyranny and the pervention thereof.
 
Back
Top