On the subject of 22 ammo.

I think Ruger alone sold over 1.2 million guns last year. The shooting sports have exploded in the last ten years, more people are getting into guns and people that already had guns are buying more. Most new guns are small caliber and high capacity. All of those new guns need ammo, in some cases a lot of ammo.

I think the ammo companies had been steadily loosing ground with keeping the ammo supply up with demand for a few years now, when the political/ban talk started the ammo situation hit critical mass and explode. The problem is not as simple as its just hoarders buying all the ammo available. Overall demand has risen to a level were the manufacturers just can't keep up.

One of two things needs to happen for things to return to normal. Demand must fall (given the number of new shooters and guns not likely) or the manufacturers must step up production.
 
Originally Posted By: kyle`Troller1 and kevlars are two stand up guys. great to see you guys help out a fellow shooter teach the next generation the values of firearms......

+1, nice move guys.
 

Originally Posted By: 204 AROriginally Posted By: kyle`Troller1 and kevlars are two stand up guys. great to see you guys help out a fellow shooter teach the next generation the values of firearms......

+1, nice move guys.

Great move guys!!!!
 
When you take all things into consideration, it's really no wonder there's a shortage of 22 ammo.

a.) The 22 LR has been an entry level gun for shooting since forever.
b.) The 22 LR offers LOTS of affordable entry level options, probably more options than any other single caliber.
c.) The 22 LR offers LOTS of high capacity options, semi-auto loading options.
d.) The 22 LR used to offer lots of affordable ammo, and still does (sorta), with respectable dealers. So...
e.) Pretty much everybody that owns a gun has one, or a dozen.


For all the above reasons 22 LR ammo is in very high demand setting up all of the other issues.

When gun bans were being talked about, and everyone was buying crazy, existing gun owners probably didn't rush out and buy up all the 22 LRs in the world, that was probably more inclined to be young first time gun owners.

Young first time gun owners:

a.) Don't have any ammo, let alone have any ammo stock-piled.
b.) Want to shoot their new guns.
c.) Shoot lots of rounds when they do shoot their guns.
d.) Don't know how cheap 22 LR is supposed to be.

Therefore young first time gun owners:

a.) Are willing to pay much more for 22 LR ammo until they become educated.
b.) Learn that if you want to shoot, you should have a stockpile, while trying to find ammo.
c.) Pay the gougers' prices, since they want to shoot, which keeps the gougers in business.
d.) Burn up lots of ammo feeding their new toy, when they can find it. Which compounds the problem of building their stockpile of not so cheap ammo.

Add to this the facts that:

a.) ALL stores are out 22 LR and need to restock their shelves.
b.) Hundreds of millions, if not billions of rounds were placed on backorder when things started crashing in this market, and likely millions still are backordered on a daily basis as this shortage continues. Wherein...
c.) You enter the gougers and hoarders who buy everything that hits the shelves because they still have a market. Which...
d.) Creates more gougers and hoarders, as folks become frustrated trying to find 22LR ammo. And...
e.) This is not a reloadable cartidge, so no one is able to ease demand on the few manufacturing plants by reloading.


In a nutshell, demand for 22 LR ammo has increased exponentially, and ammo manufacturers aren't going to spend millions to build a new factory to produce $2 a box ammo when they think this bubble is going to bust, and their existing plants are going to meet day to day demand again. It just isn't going to happen.

The only way the problem is going to get fixed is:

a.) Raise the price to $1995 for 500 rounds, across the board. Which will...
b.) Allow the store shelves to be restocked,
c.) Allow backorders to catch up, and...
d.) Allow the manufacturers to restock their stockpile.

After which, the prices can slowly back down to reasonable and even cheap again, assuming we can trust retailers to price their ammo fairly, rather gouging everyone. Allowing everyone to reenter the market at what "they" consider fair prices, which will slow demand, allowing the market to keep up with sales. Unfortunately, as long as the respectable dealers refuse to follow the business model of increasing prices to meet the lack of supply, therein slowing demand, and continue to sell 22 LR cheap, we're going to keep seeing the gougers and hoarders feeding on each other. The hoarders will see the need to increase the size of their stockpile because of the shortage they are creating. The gougers are going to keep reaping the profits. The store shelves aren't going to fill back up, the backorders aren't going to catch up, and the manufacturers aren't going to be able to rebuild their stockpile.

Bottomline; honestly... The only way it's going to get better is for it to get worse.


 
I don't know why people are so uncomfortable calling a spade a spade. People in the industry are telling us exactly what's happening, but still people are trying to invent alternative explanations.

There was a rush on ALL guns out there, not just the .22. So this narrative of "massive numbers of new shooters all buying .22s" doesn't hold up. Despite a huge run on AR platforms, the majority of which are .223, I can get .223 ammo at any of 5 or 6 places and if I were so motivated, I could buy 5000 rounds after work tonight with hardly any effort at all.

But I can't get a pack of .22 rimfire rounds to save my life and it's all because of new shooters rushing into the sport in the last year? It doesn't make sense.

Call it what it is: Hoarders and price-gouging ammo flippers.

Why make up stories and invent logic when the truth is already known? The same pathetic bunch of flippers and hoarders are squatting on dove stools in front of the chain stores every week snapping up the shipment of rimfires at opening time and then driving straight to the pawn shop to sell them for a quick profit.

Several ammo makers have all come out with statements and they all say the same thing. Demand has risen beyond any reasonable explanation despite record levels of production.


Grouse
 
I think it's a combination of hoarders/gougers AND new 22 LR owners. Also, people who have 22's that didn't have much ammo on hand, and are trying to build up a stash to shoot.

Kevlars
 
I have 2 girls (6 and 8)that are constantly asking me to go shooting and hunting.

I don't see this as getting better.. It's already been a year and while the other things ammo are getting better.. This one doesn't seem to be better.

So for what ever reason, what ever is causing the shortage, I don't really care.. If I see ammo on the shelves at a decent price, I am going to buy it, and if I can I would buy a couple of thousand rounds of it. If the employee's are snatching it up and reselling it. Well good for them, if they are making money.
If there is a company that it's happening at, talk to the manager there and ask if they are monitoring it. But, if you have young kids and want to take them shooting and see ammo on the shelves, and you shouldn't buy more than one box if you see it, well good for you and thank you, cause i will when i see it.
 
Originally Posted By: kevlarsI think it's a combination of hoarders/gougers AND new 22 LR owners. Also, people who have 22's that didn't have much ammo on hand, and are trying to build up a stash to shoot.

Kevlars

I'm sure there are many micro-contributors, but why focus on 1% of the problem. Yes, there are new .22 owners. And the weather was good in some places which made people shoot more. And the recovering economy. And the release of a new Hunger Games movie. And, and, and, and. All of this together doesn't account for 5% of an increase in demand.

The point I'm making is that we didn't go from .22 rimfires on every shelf to a total and complete lack of any .22 RF ammo anywhere because of new shooters. That's a completely false narrative and as I've shown with .223 ammo, it can't be true because if it were true for .22 RF, it'd be true for everything.

There was plenty of ammo before and there still would be plenty of ammo if we didn't have people hoarding hundreds of thousands of rounds and ammo flippers squatting on stools at 5 AM and stripping the shelves at opening.

The downward spiral was caused by hoarders and profiteers stripping the shelves. That made ammo hard to find, which made normal people buy more when they saw it because it was hard to find. Which made the situation worse and created a scalper's market. Which encouraged the ammo flippers to double their efforts so they could profiteer from the shortage. Which made ammo harder to get. Which made the hoarders even more eager to "lay in a supply" because it was hard to get. Which made ammo even harder to get, which drove up demand...

Down, down, down we went.

The cycle is slowly being broken, but it's going to take a long time before supply overturns the apple cart and takes away the profiteer motive.

Grouse
 
According to a estimate in a taurus magazine I have in front of me..in 2012 4.5 billion rimfire rounds bought in the U.S.




X
 
I do think that a lot more people bought and own guns that before Obama was elected. People were afraid of him being president and wanted to buy guns before they were banned. IMHO. I don't blame him but I do think that people went crazy buying up more guns and ammo.

Cost of everything is up. I blame the cost increase on a few things. Increase in the demand for Oil all over the World has caused the price of Oil to skyrocket up. A barrel of oil used to cost $25 not costs $100. Everything that depends on oil.. transportation or anything that has to be shipped using oil products has passed the cost increase of oil onto their customers.

I do think that the supply has maybe diminished some due to the manufactures making other products more than rim fire ammo like the 22 LR. And then the increase in sales of 22 cal guns has increased the demand for ammo.

Throw in some hording and you have the situation today. Will it last for the long term? I don't know. I hope not but this has been going on for more than a year now.

I only own one 22 cal rifle and that's it. I have about 4 boxes of 50 rounds each and then bought a brick of 225 rounds from a local gun shop. I paid a fortune for that brick but bought it due to the fact that I can't find any 22 ammo anywhere these days. I've been looking for 22 cal ammo for the last year. I visit the local gun stores weekly or more often at times and only one time this last week did I see 22 ammo on the store shelf. But it was 22 short and 22 Long or bird shot ammo and not one single box of 22 LR. And that was the day they got their stock in for the week and it was all gone by that afternoon. I guess you have to be there at 9 or 10 am when they open the day of receiving their shipment for the week.

I use to pay a buck or two for a box of 22 cal LR ammo. Those days are long gone, just like the days of only paying 25 cents for a gallon of high octane gasoline. Yes back when I was still in HS they had gas wars and the price of gas would drop down to a quarter a gallon. We would buy 50 cents worth of gas and go cruising on Friday night after the foot ball game. That was back in 1968 when I was a Jr. in HS and just started driving.

I just wish that people would settle down and they would keep some ammo on the store shelves. Geezers this is crazy.

Originally Posted By: derbyacresbobI agree with Scalloper and Gerbs on the 22 LR ammo shortage.

Since Obama was elected there are millions more 22 LR firearms out there than there was before he was elected.

Millions of 22 LR Firearms owners before Obama were not stocked up with 22 LR ammo. They would just go to the store and buy some ammo when they needed it.

If you own a 22 LR is it hoarding to want to have 4 to 10 bricks of ammo? Millions of people are wanting to have 2 to 5 bricks of ammo now when they were happy before Obama to have 2 to 5 boxes of ammo.

I would also bet that there is more than twice as many rounds of 22 LR ammo being shot a day now than there was before Obama.

As far as gouging goes I feel like I am being gouged when I look at any ammo, powder, primers, brass etc because the price for ammo and brass is twice as much as it was 10 years ago. The prices of ammo have gone up because the cost to manufacture the ammo has also gone up.

12 ga target loads that are not hard to find have doubled in price in the last 10 years. If and when there will be plenty of 22 LR ammo for everyone the price may go down a little but they will still cost way more than they did in the past.
 
I would think with the price increase in 22 ammo someone in the business might think about building more capacity and making some money? I like you think that the demand is not going to decrease anytime in the future. People who bought guns and learned to shoot found out that it was fun and will continue to shoot and maybe even hunt.

There are more women shooting these days too. The other 50 % of the population has discovered what the men found out a long time ago. It's fun to shoot guns. They want in on the action too.

I see more of the younger kids getting into shooting. Girls are going coyote hunting or deer hunting these days. Back when I was young you would be hard pressed to find a young female that thought that hunting was cool. These days they are buying camo outfits just for kicks. One girl that I know went out and bought herself a new fishing rod for Christmas. Young women are doing what the guys have been doing for years. Getting out into the outdoors and having fun. So yes the demand for ammo has increased considerably.

Our only hope is that the price increases persuade more manufacturing to keep up with the new level of demand. Hopefully the free market will figure this out.

Originally Posted By: justin10mmI think Ruger alone sold over 1.2 million guns last year. The shooting sports have exploded in the last ten years, more people are getting into guns and people that already had guns are buying more. Most new guns are small caliber and high capacity. All of those new guns need ammo, in some cases a lot of ammo.

I think the ammo companies had been steadily loosing ground with keeping the ammo supply up with demand for a few years now, when the political/ban talk started the ammo situation hit critical mass and explode. The problem is not as simple as its just hoarders buying all the ammo available. Overall demand has risen to a level were the manufacturers just can't keep up.

One of two things needs to happen for things to return to normal. Demand must fall (given the number of new shooters and guns not likely) or the manufacturers must step up production.
 
Wal-Mart has 223,243,308,30-06 tons of shotgun shells, lots of 9mm,40,357,44mag, but no 22LR. Guy at the counter says the same people show up everytime the truck is here and buys it all up. Didn't say anything about women or young people/new shooters. Hummmmm
 
Originally Posted By: pyscodogWal-Mart has 223,243,308,30-06 tons of shotgun shells, lots of 9mm,40,357,44mag, but no 22LR. Guy at the counter says the same people show up everytime the truck is here and buys it all up. Didn't say anything about women or young people/new shooters. Hummmmm
I guess the good news is that some stuff is showing up for you. How is the price of the .223 at Walmart?
 
Originally Posted By: Coyotehunter_I would think with the price increase in 22 ammo someone in the business might think about building more capacity and making some money?

The only price increase on 22 ammo is from the gougers. When it hits the shelves here, it is the normal price. There is no price increase.
 
Quote:If you own a 22 LR is it hoarding to want to have 4 to 10 bricks of ammo? Millions of people are wanting to have 2 to 5 bricks of ammo now when they were happy before Obama to have 2 to 5 boxes of ammo....I think 'derbyacresbob' is, to a degree, very correct on this point...

I know that several farmers down in my home county used to get by with keeping a couple of boxes of .22 s/l/lr in a kitchen drawer for varmint control or slaughter work and had no concern if they needed to replenish it as time went along..Now, they are buying a brick or two at a time, just for future availability concerns...

I know that a couple of members here have began rationing what their kids have available for their shooting activities and in my case, with younger grandchildren that don't have jobs, I'm hesitant to just open up a storage box at the range and let them have at it like I used to...

I'm more inclined to buy a brick when encountered than to buy a bunch of individual boxes for accuracy testing since, if I run across a production lot of one number that is really accurate out of my individual firearms, the chance of going back to the store and being able to buy the same series is almost non-existent....I'd better have the 500 rounds already in hand....Those that turn out to be less than adequate get relegated to the grandkids for their use..
 
Originally Posted By: OldTurtleThose that turn out to be less than adequate get relegated to the grandkids for their use..

not a good granpa. bad granpa.
tongue_smilie.gif
 
Originally Posted By: reb8600Originally Posted By: Coyotehunter_I would think with the price increase in 22 ammo someone in the business might think about building more capacity and making some money?

The only price increase on 22 ammo is from the gougers. When it hits the shelves here, it is the normal price. There is no price increase.

I personally have not visited any 22LR plants, but have heard that production has increased. How can production costs increase and not get passed on to the consumer. Granted, prices are increased from what they were previously, but to say they is no price increase is very subjective.
 
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