night vision scopes

Originally Posted By: jim87formulaYeah I would be interested in the one that attaches to a dayscope but why such a raise in price from the scope? Plus here in Iowa we cant use any artifical light, so lasers are out of the question... Hows the Gen1 that goes on your dayscope? And price and brand? I know the Gen1 "NightOwl" spotting scopes are junk, the ones that Wal-Mart sales, I just dont wanna get junk and I sure dont wanna get ripped of either for nightvision...

All Gen1 needs some light and a night with a bright sky works fine with no IR, but with dark skies you will need a good IR source, Gen 2+ only needs IR in complete darkness like a enclosed building. The unit that goes on the scope itself is the Gen 2+ that cost $2300 (LN-EMG1), the scope for $850-$1050 is Gen 1 with external IR, thus the cost difference. The Monocular also has a head set so you can use it hands free so it's very vesatile and quick to change from scope to scope or to the headset, the LN-PRS40 scope is dedicated to a gun and thus the gun is dedicated to night use. With the Gen 2+ monocular on a scope, the scope's optics reduce it's brightness by at least half. That said, it's pooring outside- thus very dark- and i can see a good 150-200 yards with no IR, but when i turn the laser on i can see 500+ yards even in the pooring rain like it's a bright sunny day. I was looking at the neighbors garden and with the Gen 2+ and no laser i saw things very well, but when i turned the laser on i seen a rabbit in his garden i didn't know was there without it- it was cool as it's eyes glowed too! If you wanted a great rifle scope only that wouldn't need a IR source as it's designed solely as a rifle scope, Luna has a Gen 2+ scope that runs $2600(LN-ERS40M) but that would do what your looking for if you don't mind making your rifle a dedicated night rifle. Put Axman here on your contact list as he will be using that scope sometime later next week!
 
quote BlindHunter...(i would imagine the Gen1 stuff with the laser light would let you see the main beams/points out to several hundred yards.)
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BlindHunter what model do you recommend, and how much?
 
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I think for now I will stick with the moon light, lol... My old lady would shoot me if I spent that kind of money for something else to do with coyote hunting! Thanks for all the info though. Gives me some insight for next year to get.
 
Originally Posted By: cookstaxiquote BlindHunter...(i would imagine the Gen1 stuff with the laser light would let you see the main beams/points out to several hundred yards.)
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BlindHunter what model do you recommend, and how much?


I recommend working within your budget, so don't extend yourself thinking you have to have Gen 2+ or better to get a quality scope. If you want a scope and can only afford up to a grand, you will be extremely happy with the Premium LN-PRS40 Gen 1 4X riflescope, but if you have a much larger budget and want more flexability with your NV equipment, the LN-EMG1 Gen 2+ monocular for $2600 with the added laser will once again be the better choice as it is a mono-goggle with a head mask or a hand held monocular plus a NV riflescope that easily converts to these uses in seconds and you can move it to any gun at any time- no resighting of anything is a huge plus and doesn't tye up your favorite rifle to night time use only.
 
Originally Posted By: SuperSeal110Buy once, cry once. Don't skimp on NVS.



SuperSeal110 are you saying Gen1 is a waste of money no matter what? I don't want to waste money on poor quality, but I also don't want to waste money by buying more than I need. I would'nt need the NV to reach out past 100yds, 50yds would be the avg. distance I'd be viewing anything. Will Gen1 of any kind accomplish this? If not what will? I need to be able to see the frame of a buck at 100yds or less. Anyone else with an opinion on this please reply.
 
Hey Cookstaxi you will be more than happy with Blindhuntersupplies stuff if you don't like it i will buy it back from you..You will be able to see the Deer's bag with the laser ir and scope at a 100 yard's....
 
Originally Posted By: AxmanHey Cookstaxi you will be more than happy with Blindhuntersupplies stuff if you don't like it i will buy it back from you..You will be able to see the Deer's bag with the laser ir and scope at a 100 yard's....

Actually with the laser light you will see it ALOT further than 100 yards and with 36 lp/mm it will be pretty well defined lol! If your only concerned with distances to 100 yards, you maybe just fine with the scope with it's built in IR, that would save you alot of money at $699 TYD. But i would still suggest going with the Extended range IR option as a precaution just in case your target is just outside that range or you just like extra brightness since that combo is only $850 (this Extended IR is $200 otherwise), still a great setup for anyone in this price range and saves you $200 from going with the scope/laser combo which reaches out way way way beyond 300 yards without trying in any type of darkness. Of course you can always go Gen2+ or above and need no light source at your distances, but your going to pay over $2000 to play with the Elite stuff, if you can swing it that's something to consider.
 
Originally Posted By: jim87formulaJust read about this and sounds like the real deal, plus the price to your door I wouldnt complain about it. It wont work for me though because its a "laser light" but still with people with tight budgets and want to keep there daytime scopes this is what I would get and try out... Its called the ND-3

http://www.lasergenetics.com/nd3-laser-designator.aspx



What you see here is still a visible light. We offer one of the longest range IR illuminators on the market called "da torch". Effective range is a TRUE 500m with a Gen 3 device. http://tnvc.com/items/illumination_tools/elr_torch.html

I just saw this thread, (sorry for the delay). As most know, night vision IS our core business and we know a thing or two about what REALLY works in the dark. We always tell our customers to save for at least a Gen 2 system. NO AMOUNT of money is worth the low resolution, brightness and dismal clarity of a Gen 1 system. You would rather be better off with a good quality day scope and flashlight for most night engagements, especially if the moon is out vs. a Gen 1 scope. Hope this helps and sorry for the delay responding to this post. I or my other counterpart will start hanging out more to dispel a few untruths about NV we are seeing popping up here and there. Thanks guys.

Vic
 
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We also have a few systems UNDER 2K as some think Gen 2 cost more. One of the VERY best Gen 2 NV rifle scopes in our humble opinion is the Litton M845 seen here, http://tnvc.com/items/night_vision_scopes/m845.html at $1750.00. This is an amazing Gen 2+ Litton tube that has 48-50LP (line pair) resolution. For the price point, it cannot be beat. The 4x version was just released, (not on the web site just yet) and I have been shooting and testing this unit for the last several weeks and once again the optics and durability of this piece is incredibly good. These will be at $1990.00

The other system under 2K is the D-300 monocular seen here. http://tnvc.com/items/night_vision_monoculars/d300_g2st.html at $1499.00

So in closing, there ARE choices for some qaulity Gen 2 Systems under 2K that will serve your hunting and observation needs quite well. Hope this helps and give us a call and we will be happy to discuss your exact needs.

Vic
 
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Originally Posted By: Victor_TNVCWe also have a few systems UNDER 2K as some think Gen 2 cost more. One of the VERY best Gen 2 NV rifle scopes in our humble opinion is the Litton M845 seen here, http://tnvc.com/items/night_vision_scopes/m845.html at $1750.00. This is an amazing Gen 2+ Litton tube that has 48-50LP (line pair) resolution. For the price point, it cannot be beat. The 4x version was just released, (not on the web site just yet) and I have been shooting and testing this unit for the last several weeks and once again the optics and durability of this piece is incredibly good. These will be at $1990.00

The other system under 2K is the D-300 monocular seen here. http://tnvc.com/items/night_vision_monoculars/d300_g2st.html at $1499.00

So in closing, there ARE choices for some qaulity Gen 2 Systems under 2K that will serve your hunting and observation needs quite well. Hope this helps and give us a call and we will be happy to discuss your exact needs.

Vic

While i agree the M845 Mark II weapon sight is a good value for under $2000(which by the way i can offer also along with other great Gen 3 stuff by ITT) i would never push someone to buy more than they can afford. That's why i feel it's important to have a good sub $1000 Gen 1 system, as i wouldn't turn away the Carhart wearing working man's dream of owning night vision (but i don't want to see guys buy junk either). It's easy to say Gen 3 is the only way to go, but i would love a new Ferrari too, but my Mustangs will have to do! If guys paying for gen 1 realize it's shortcommings (which don't have to be all that bad as many believe) they can not only be satisfied with it, but even amazed when they compare it to Gen 2+ at the value they got for minimal difference.
 
I can appreciate the argument about the economy and the working man. We aren't white collar guys either. But, part of being a working man is knowing and understanding quality. Add in the economy and now, more than ever, it is important to recognize a good value. Night vision is a tricky industry. It is very easy to sell cheapo Gen1 or foreign-made/foreign-sourced gear to people who don't know any better. Gen1 units use an Anode and Cathode to function. This translates into a distinct image distortion and looks like a fish-eye lens. They also have abysmally short tube life. This technology was developed back in the 60's and was serviceable in the short range contacts in the jungles of Vietnam, but I have a hard time believing the claims of 600 yard shots. Under magnification, the issue is exacerbated and the distortion becomes very bad.

Here is a quick image comparison I pulled off the internet. This is not mine, but it serves to illustrate the point. Notice the darkness of the Gen1 image, even under illumination. Notice the distortion around zone 3 and 4 (edges) of the image. Non of these images are magnified. It doesn't take much to imagine the image quality under magnification. Now, compare it to the Gen2 images below. It's apples to oranges.

QuickFiveComparison.jpg


So, please don't try to pass off Gen1 as being close to Gen2. It is not. The proof is right there. And, let's not forget that this is a simple comparison between Gen1 and Gen2, neither of which is top of the line. The problem with Gen1 is that it is cheap (quality and price). It's very easy to sell it to guys who don't do their research. We deal with countless clients who fell into that trap when they bought something from a big-box retailer, a tiny mom&pop shop, or a gun show. Their gear crapped out on them quickly or didn't perform as advertised. The real jimmy-kicker is that they were then out $1,000+ that they could have put towards a serviceable Gen2 device or an excellent Gen3 unit had they saved a bit more and not been in such a hurry to buy. We have never and never will push anyone into buying something they cannot afford. That is precisely why we do not sell Gen1. I surely cannot afford to throw away $1,000 on a piece of junk and not get my money back. And, there isn't any other Carhart-wearing, gun-toting, middle class, camo-collared guy I know who can afford that waste either. We could easily sell Gen1 all day long and make a lot of money, but we won't do it for reasons stated. And let's be honest: comparing Gen1 to Gen2 and 3 is like comparing a Soap Box Derby to a Honda to a Porsche. One of these things is not like the others.

Now, for the sake of argument, let's look at some Gen2 and Gen3 devices.

Here we see an image through a GT-14 Gen2 SHP Grade B Night Vision Monocular ($2,449). No magnification.

GT14G2_3.jpg


Next, we have an image through a D-760 Gen3 Select Alpha Night Vision Rifle Scope ($4,049). 6X Magnification.

D740G3SELA_4.jpg


Then, there is the ITT PVS-14 Gen3 PINNACLE Autogated Night Vision Monocular - Standard issue U.S. Military ($3,695). No Magnification.

ANPVS14_3.jpg


There is no Gen1 can be compared to these devices. There will always be folks whose money burns a hole in their wallets and must buy the first thing they can or can't afford. That's what got us into this economy in the first place. But, if anything, this economy has taught us to be more careful on how we spend our money and to do it wisely. If you can't afford something, save up for it. Otherwise, you flush it down the toilet.
 
People should buy what you can afford, if your on a tight budget get Gen 1 as there is some stuff that works very well with a good laser light, and if your budget is bigger we can talk ITT Gen 3 stuff- i got it all. Since i know as do a few others here that there is good Gen 1 stuff though, i won't let someone tell us it's all junk as we know better but i don't think it's as good as Gen 3! I can give several references to some users here that have Gen 1 that are very happy with it, do a search on Luna reviews once, a couple guys with NV experience wrote some nice things about it. BTW the Gen 1 stuff i have looks more like the Gen 2+ pics you show than the Gen 1 photo's, those Gen 1 pics are horrible!
 
Originally Posted By: BlindHuntersSupplyPeople should buy what you can afford, if your on a tight budget get Gen 1 as there is some stuff that works very well with a good laser light, and if your budget is bigger we can talk ITT Gen 3 stuff- i got it all. Since i know as do a few others here that there is good Gen 1 stuff though, i won't let someone tell us it's all junk as we know better but i don't think it's as good as Gen 3! I can give several references to some users here that have Gen 1 that are very happy with it, do a search on Luna reviews once, a couple guys with NV experience wrote some nice things about it. BTW the Gen 1 stuff i have looks more like the Gen 2+ pics you show than the Gen 1 photo's, those Gen 1 pics are horrible!

To finalize the point, a Gen 1 is not even close to a current Gen 2 period such as the M845 with a Litton tube in regards to clarity, resolution and brightness. Even the current US Surplus Gen 2 systems in the D-300 outperforms a Gen 1 in EVERY arena. Gen 1 IS Gen 1 designed with tubes and technology from the 1960's. Hope this

P.S. we do this stuff for a living and do not just peddle goods for the sake of a sell. You might want to take a look at these links. Try to ask some of the folk over there what they think of Gen 1 and they will be a lot more harsher than us.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=6&f=18

http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=2&f=209

Vic
 
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You will pay out the wazoo, but there are better than 3rd generation out there but not in the retail section of the stores. If I was going to buy, it would be 3rd generation if I had the money to spend on it. Buy what you can afford.
 
I'm just glad that we here at Predator Masters have Night Vision Sponsors to appeal to EVERYONE's budget!

I firmly believe that with anything you may buy with your hard earned money, there is a "Price to Value" relationship.

If my son, "The Marine" who is about to be deployed to Afghanistan, after 2 tours in Iraq, is given a piece of Night Vision Equipment, I would hope beyond all hope, that he is issued the VERY BEST and modern piece of equipment that the Military has to offer.

When it comes to Night Vision, research is key, and making an "un-informed" purchase can indeed be costly and extremely frustrating.

Do your research, and maybe even test a few out, and I'm sure that you will pick the one that makes the most sense to you and your budget.

 
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