New to Predator Hunting

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coltmcbride

New member
Hi, I my name is Colt I am 22 years old and I am located out in Arizona. I have two baby boys and just found out that me and my wife are being blessed with twin girls at the start of the year. I am the only one working and I don't make much but get a little to splurge around my birthday every year. I Have hunted small game all my life but never big game or predators (not for a lack of interest but lack of guidance) and I have decided to take the plunge into predator hunting. I am sure that this is probably in the wrong forum so I am sorry but had a question about the gear I am planning on purchasing at the end of this month. For my rifle I was most interested in a bolt action in 223 and due to money issues settled upon the savage axis rifle. Upon a recent trip to Cabelas the only caliber they had in stock for this rifle was 22-250. I am aware that the rifle will probably be more than enough for my needs but was worried about pelt damage with the faster moving 22-250. My only other concern is cost of ammo. My first thought to alleviate this cost was to get Lee Classic handloader and have my Grandfather teach me to load my own ammo. So I guess my question really is will the 22-250 be good for Bobcat and Coyote without major pelt damage and is it reasonable to think that I can learn the art of reloading on this caliber? The only other question I had was concerning the predator call, I am reading that I should first purchase a hand call and once mastered I can purchase an e-caller. I am also seeing that I should probably start with a closed reed design so my only real question with this is what brand should I be buying? Is there really any advantage? Again so sorry if I posted this in the wrong area just trying to learn and I am kind of flying solo right now.
 
If you haven't already made the purchase, I would strongly suggest you get a .223 instead. Even if you have to search or wait. Much cheaper to shoot and will kill any coyote or bobcat dead. And you can purchase factory ammo probably as cheap as you can reload for it. Not the case for the '250. As for pelt damage, if you stay away from fast expanding bullets like the VMax it will help. But the '250 is going to be tough on most any bobcat you shoot.

If you decide to reload, get yourself a reloading manual and read it TWICE. More if you still don't understand. While I am sure that Gramps is capable of teaching you, it is imperative that you know and understand what you are doing. Get the manual. Read it.

Before you start to reload, I'd suggest that you just shoot factory ammo for a while and get a better idea of your ammunition needs in regard to your hunting areas.

Buying a mouth call is a good idea. There have been (and still are) thousands of cats and coyotes killed every day with a mouth call. You can get a Foxpro later if you decide you actually need it.

CONGRATULATIONS on the family! Enjoy every day with them. Time will pass in a hurry and they'll be grown and moved out before you can turn around!
 
.204 would be your best bet for both coyote and bobcat. Check out the Ruger American rifles; they seem to get pretty good reviews at minimal cost.
There's a place for both hand calls and e-calls, but I applaud your efforts for wanting to learn how to handcall.
I'd highly recommend getting an open reed and learn how to use it. The sound possibilities are pretty much whatever you can imagine with an open reed, whereas a closed read is pretty much 1-3 sounds and pitches depending.
Any of the custom call makers can hook you up with what you need and the calls will be much better than anything you could buy mass produced.
Just post in the custom call forum about what you think you want and I'm sure one of the call makers will be along shortly to help you out. I've used Carver, Tebbe, and Orion just to name a few.
 
22-250 will due a bit of fur damage depending on bullet placement & what load you do up.
It is also one of the major calibers a lot of callers use.
Calling is easy to learn via hand calls IMO. NO matter how bad you think you are its FOOD to the predator, as the worse you make your distress sound its better for getting them in.
You can jump right into a E-Call and practice calling by listening to the call and mimicking said sound.
 
Ok well I have found the 223 in stock at budsgunshop but have never purchased a gun online and frankly it kind of worries me. As far as custom calls I am not sure what I would even think I want in a caller. I know that is less than helpful but I am so new to this it is not even funny. As far as Ruger american goes so far the prices I have seen have been a little high, at least in comparison to the savage. How is ammo pricing on .204. I am honestly open to dang near anything and will forgo any ideas I have for some advice from more experienced predator hunters. I would love to buy the foxpro today but as I know myself very well I know that it would not matter at that point how bad I wanted to learn to how bad I wanted to hand call as I would just take the easy route. Beyond the rifle and caller is there really anything else I need to start hunting? Thank you for the help guys.
 
Originally Posted By: coltmcbrideOk well I have found the 223 in stock at budsgunshop but have never purchased a gun online and frankly it kind of worries me. As far as custom calls I am not sure what I would even think I want in a caller. I know that is less than helpful but I am so new to this it is not even funny. As far as Ruger american goes so far the prices I have seen have been a little high, at least in comparison to the savage. How is ammo pricing on .204. I am honestly open to dang near anything and will forgo any ideas I have for some advice from more experienced predator hunters. I would love to buy the foxpro today but as I know myself very well I know that it would not matter at that point how bad I wanted to learn to how bad I wanted to hand call as I would just take the easy route. Beyond the rifle and caller is there really anything else I need to start hunting? Thank you for the help guys.

.204 ammo runs about the same price as high quality. 223 (think Hornady Vmax) ammo from what I've seen lately.
Either the .223 or .204 would serve you well, but I'd prefer the .204 if I knew I was going to call in bobcats.
As far as calls go, literally just go to the custom call forum and make a post that you're just starting out and need an easy to blow call and you'll get a response. Don't be intimidated, they'll help you out and point you in the right direction.
 
Well you'll definetly get a lot of opinions here, you really just kind of gotta go for it and you will learn what works for you.

The 22-250 is a fabulous predator cartridge and loaded with the right bullet you can minimize pelt damage, however in general the 250 is not kind on fur and especially not cats. In my experience the 22-250 is quite easy to load for and forgiving, the lee hand loader is slow painstaking work but my father in law uses one and produces fairly accurate ammo.

Personal preferences aside the Axis is way more accurate than it should be considering the price.

Especially considering your budget I would start with traditional hand calls and go from there. Closed reed calls are more forgiving and a good place to start but for 8 bucks a Talley HO is hard to beat and once you learn to use it you can howl, squeak, distress, etc with just the one call. There are a lot of good calls out there and some of the easiest ones to use at least to me are Primos Calls.

Your on a slippery slope my friend, predator hunting is very addictive, before long your gonna want several rifles, calls, decoys, camo, etc and it only gets worse. My wife thinks I need a 12 step program to kick the habit, or she did until she tried it herself.

4 kids by 22, now that's ambitious. Do you ever sleep? My wife is pregnant with our first and even though it's not born yet they truly are a blessing congrats.

 
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personally I would stay with the axis in 223. check your Wal mart that is where I got mine at. $289 before tax with no scope
I would love to have a 204 ruger gun but around here getting factory ammo is tough. granted I do hand load also but if getting factory ammo is an issue that would be something to concider also me I would stay with the 223
 
You are blessed with great resources in your state when it comes to learning to call predators. If at all possible, search out and join one if the several clubs in your area. That will be the quickest way to shorten your learning curve.
 
If you're a small game hunter, you may already have one of best coyote guns out there. It's called a 12 gauge shotgun.

Yeah, yeah, I know the TV shows show them dropping preads in every episode on the run at 450 yards, etc, etc. The reality is if you want to kill coyotes AND minimize pelt damage, all on a super low budget, the best gun for the job may already be in your cabinet.

You don't say if you have a call already, but there's another piece of gear that costs money. Yeah, you can hand call, some guys like doing it that way, I'm firmly in the "no" camp. I like using the eCall and concentrating on what might be coming.

Personally, I can tell you from experience with raising a family, that if you like to hunt, you're better off hitting the door and hunting WHENEVER you have time rather than spending that time faffing around with a new gun because you won't get that time back to hunt. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about the fun of new gear, but as a young guy with young kids, you're going to have a lot of pressure on your time.

Grouse
 
Grouse has some very good points about the shotgun . If you truly care about pelt damage the shotgun is hands down the way to go.
 
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unless you are going up the "hill" to northern AZ, you don't need to worry about pelt damage.

The pelts from new river to tuscon are not worth skinning. The money isn't there.

A 223 and a 12g with Hornady BB coyote ammo is perfect.
 
Congrats on the family Colt and welcome! There is not too much I can say that hasn't been said. A couple things I will recommend, and this is personal opinion, if you want to go with mouth calls I would get ahold of Kerry Carver and look into his 220 swift call (and he is a sponsor). There are a lot of good call makers to work with on here but he is the only one I have personal experience with and he is an awesome guy to work with. Tell him your situation and he will give honest advice. As far as the gun goes, the axis shoots very well out of the box. If you do go with the 22-250, I would look into winchester white box 45 gr value pack or remington 45 or 50 gr value pack ammo if you can find them in your area. They come in boxes of 40 rounds and they have both shot great out of my 250. Avoid reloading as long as you can because I just started and it is a money pit lol. Very fun and rewarding so far, but by no means cheaper (in my case at least) than shooting factory ammo. I started predator hunting because how much of a hassel waterfowl hunting became with prices going up for leases and dealing with big crowds at public ground so I sold all my stuff and jumped into pred hunting. Used my 270 and cheap primos calls from walmart and sucked at it at first. Once you kill that first coyote that you call in by yourself with hand calls you will be hooked. Good luck and have fun!

Shelton
 
One thing I would recommend to you also that has not been mentioned is a hunting partner, they help with the gas prices, a second set of eyes, the friendship, and the safety issue will help your wife's nerves.
 
Originally Posted By: VelvetHammerand the safety issue will help your wife's nerves.


One of the best pieces of advice you will ever get. My wife panics if I go alone, whether or not its justified she does. The more she worries the less you will go.
 
Axis in 223 is a great gun. Poor trigger. There are mods on the internet for the trigger, but I find mine a bit heavy still. Buy stainless if you can, less chance for rust sitting behind the truck seat. If you have to get the 22-250 you will probably be able to download it to 223 velocities. If you buy a 223 you'll be able to download to hornet velocities. I would suggest sticking with a 22 though at least for me components are more available and cheaper than the other calibers.

As far as calls go you have good advice from the guys above. Buy at least 1 good one. You can make some at home as well. The ones I've made sound good to me (coyotes might disagree)and they take about 1/2 hr or so. There are some tutorials on this site.

Maybe get something comfortable to sit on as well.
 
Ok so tons of good advice here guys thank you so much. To answer some questions, yes my kids are truly a blessing, they are my whole world, I do not currently own a hand call or an e-caller, I also do not own a 12 gauge though I do own a single shot 20 gauge shotgun. I have a buddy who is very interested in hunting with me but he is lacking in really any hunting experience and is not totally sold on the predator hunting idea yet so not sure he is going to be the one I take coyote hunting. I am not aware of what the real hunting distances I will be hunting at but let me tell you that I honestly don't have any fascinations of shooting anything at 450 yards as I am not yet confident in my ability to shoot that far want to hunt and kill not injure if I can prevent it. The small game rifle I currently go to the most is my single shot 22lr rifle and I did have a 17hmr but sold it due to finances so I am unsure if I really have anything suited for coyote right now. I would love to go to any events and learn as much as I can from any club that is out there. I actually started all of this interest from the sportsman's expo coyote hunting presentation. If the pelts are not worth the money to skin should I really even concern myself with the smaller caliber? The only 223 I am coming across is an online purchase (should I even worry about buying online?) Sorry if I am asking too many questions just want to do this right and I am at a total loss.
 
No such thing as too many questions. For someone on a very tight budget and not having to worry about saving fur how about a 243 win. Great coyote caliber, wide range of bullet weights available both for reloading and factory ammo. If you think you might be able to only buy 1 gun for quite some time the 243 would be a good deer gun Should you start that adventure as well. Bullets from 58 to 100 grains really give you a wide range of uses.
 
Colt- nice family. what part of Az? A .223 or 22-250 either are fine. .243 if you ever plan on hunting deer. do not worry about fur damage. coyotes are a challenging target. after the first one you will be hooked for sure.
 
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