New (for me) varmint round... a little help please!

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erikc838

Active member
So I have been looking at getting a 20 cal varmint gun, particularly at the 20 Practical, Tac20 and 20 Vartarg. I would like for the gun to be in a Cooper, so the 20 Practical I guess is out even though it was my first choice. My question is: Is the Tac20 brass as hard to form as some make it out to be? I have been doing some reading online and some say to use the form dies and then fire form them but they still lose cases due to wrinkling. While others seem to have no problems with it. Is there a simpler way to do it that I have missed. I also can't seem to find the brass from Dakota online, I guess they stopped making it?
 
The brass isn't hard to make with the right form die. That said... If you already have a 204 or a 223 for that matter you owe it to yourself to pick up the VarTarg. Its the perfect combination of case capacity and bullet weight, I won't ever get rid of mine.
 
Do you already have a 204 Ruger? I don't know the exact ballistics of the rounds you mention, but I'd carefully compare them to the common 204 Ruger. It's rather convenient to be able to find cases or ammo on the shelf if need be. That said, nothing wrong with something less common if that's your desire.
 
Originally Posted By: erikc838
My question is: Is the Tac20 brass as hard to form as some make it out to be? I have been doing some reading online and some say to use the form dies and then fire form them but they still lose cases due to wrinkling.



They are stupid easy to make.

When I got my 20 Tac built, I bought the form dies and it was a pain in the azz and the form die pushed the shoulder/body junction back too far, so it had to be blown out again.

Then I tried just running the cases in the FL die.

What you get is a perfectly formed case with a tiny "muffin top" at the shoulder, cuz the body diameter of the 20 Tac is slightly larger than the 223.

You can see the muffin top in the pictures, on the left case. The body fills out on the first firing, and you can blow them out when working up a load. The volume of the formed case is soooo close to the fire-formed case, that you can load them with your final worked up load, and shoot/fire-form them in the field with no loss in accuracy.

I used Redding Dies, and RCBS-II lube with a little on the neck and shoulders. I used Lapua cases.

I annealed them AFTER I formed them.





20Tac-1_zps91c78170.jpg

20Tac-2_zpsb0b25af2.jpg




Originally Posted By: erikc838
While others seem to have no problems with it. Is there a simpler way to do it that I have missed. I also can't seem to find the brass from Dakota online, I guess they stopped making it?



Dakota ordered one large production run (from Lapua), and they are gone.

The advantage of the 20 Tac is you can make the cases out of Lapua brass and have great brass - the biggest draw back of the 204 is all the brass available...

... sucks!!
 
Thanks for the comments so far. Sounds like it's not bad at all. I don't have a 204, but do have a 223 already. I just wanted something a little different.
 
Originally Posted By: erikc838Thanks for the comments so far. Sounds like it's not bad at all. I don't have a 204, but do have a 223 already. I just wanted something a little different.

You will love the 20 Tac...
 
I own a 20VT and a 20Tac and sold a 204 I had for a while.

If you have a 223 already shooting the 20Tac isn't going to be much different. Go with the 20VT for something completely different.
 
I've been doing the 20 TACTICAL cases using a set of Redding Type-S F/L dies. I run the cases through a gutted 223 die or the Dillon case trimmer. The initial neck reduction and shoulder push really makes the finishing stroke easier and I end up with nice smooth shoulder/body junctions.

I personally feel the PRACTICAL is a better deal but if you are wedded to the Cooper that is out. I have never worked with the VT but I like the AR's and no one was building any when I was looking. It does look like a fun little guy to n play with.

Greg

 
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Thanks to all who contributed. I decided on the Tac20 and went ahead and ordered the gun (Cooper), dies and brass . Now for a scope. Do you think a Zeiss HD5 3-15x42 is a good fit? Cameraland has demos for $649 and I have heard that their demos are lnib. Thanks!
 
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Sounds good. I have a 204, 20 Tac and a 20 vartarg. The vartarg is my favorite by far. With the 20 Tac coming in at a close second.
 
Originally Posted By: erikc838Thanks to all who contributed. I decided on the Tac20 and went ahead and ordered the gun (Cooper), dies and brass . Now for a scope. Do you think a Zeiss HD5 3-15x42 is a good fit? Cameraland has demos for $649 and I have heard that their demos are lnib. Thanks!

They are first class. I would jump on that.

Greg
 
go for the 20 vartarg. i have one and it shoots .2" at 100 yards using 32gr bullets and a charge of h4198. and boy does it shoot, 16 1/4" mgm heavy factory barrel.

 
Originally Posted By: tdoykago for the 20 vartarg. i have one and it shoots .2" at 100 yards using 32gr bullets and a charge of h4198. and boy does it shoot, 16 1/4" mgm heavy factory barrel.





Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

A break open VT that shoots 0.20"?? I wish I could get my 16 pound varmint rifles to do that on a regular basis...

Been a lotta interesting guns on this site today. there was another that shoots all different bullet weights to the same POI ???
 
3 shots is at .2" at 100 yards was the best i ever did. my 223 in savage m12 does .3" at 100 yards for 3 shots. my dads 7x30 waters in a 14" barrel in tc contender and my 6.5 creedmoor with 16 1/4" mgm heavy factory barrel(same as the pic) both go .3" at 100 yards for 3 shots. my ruger #1 in 270 win does .3" at 100 yards. one of my worst, is a win m94 in 30-30 1.5" at 100 yards. and a 30-06 in rem mountian rifle shot 1.75-2.5" at 100 yards, i left that one go, got a savage 30-06 and it goes .5-.75" at 100yards. i can keep going on, but whats the point. everyone's got good/bad rifles. i do.
 
Originally Posted By: Steve K.CatShooter, All my guns from 22 rim to 300 win mag shoot .1............at 25yds!

Steve

Good for you!
 
Originally Posted By: tdoykago for the 20 vartarg. i have one and it shoots .2" at 100 yards using 32gr bullets and a charge of h4198. and boy does it shoot, 16 1/4" mgm heavy factory barrel.





Looks very similar to my Tac20, except I have a stainless
RIFLE barrel on it!
tt2.gif


It once shot a little over 1/8" group, but never again could
I duplicate it. Still surprisingly accurate, though. Wish
VVCG was still around to do more. Some of those guys ended
up at MGM.
 
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