Mec Sizemaster 77 12ga Load Help

KAG

KAG

New member
Ok I got one today from another PM member (kansascoyote) with extras also. Very happy about getting it. But as I have handloaded for years for handgun and rifle I know absolutely nothing about shotgun reloading. I want to load 3" 12ga shells in #4 Buck.

I bought a Lyman shotgun manual today. But I could use some good input on powder, hulls, wads, and loads if any of you have some experience with loading with this type of set up. I am wanting to load them on the healthy side if possible.

I am sending my barrel out to Trulock next week to get cut down to 20" and choked. Trying to pull this all together to hopefully go to PM convention in Feb.
 
If you did not get an owner's manual, call mec and get an owner's manual.

www.ballisticproducts.com will have all the 3" loading data you could possibly want.

On tough Kansas Pheasants, cold and windy days, I shoot a load of 36g of Blue Dot with 1 5/8 oz of Copper plated 4's and can easily kill them at 60 yards, a BP 12 gas seal and a BP 12 wad with two slits half way down.

I use the same load on #4 buck shot. You should try some F Buck and TT shot also available from Ballistic Products.

I have a bunch of Rem 3" hulls if you need some, send me a PM.
 
You have really good press there and you will be able to produce some quality shells with it. But like any other reloading practice it PAYS to read your manual thoroughly before any actual reloading.

I've reloaded 10's of thousands of shot shells when I use to shoot trap and skeet due to economic necessity. Most of my shot shell loading these days is for waterfowl hunting and I use a version of the Sizemaster called Steelmaster. Your Lyman manual should have loads listed for buckshot listing hulls, primers, wad, powder, and buffering if needed. When loading LEAD there is more leeway for using a different component than what is listed such as primers or wad. This is not the case when loading NON-TOXIC shells as the load data has to be followed to a tee. Good source for large lead shot as well as other components is www.ballisticproducts.com. Hope this helps to a degree.

Boom
 
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Thanks guys.....been reading the Lyman manual ans well as the owners manual tonight. I plan to look into the F and T shot as well. I am very pleased over all with $100 I spent for all of this.
 
Since you are trying for "hot loads", be aware that one big difference between metallic & shotshell reloading is that you do not "work up" a shotshell load. The first pressure sign that you see with a shotgun could be your barrel or action exploding. With metallic, you often start at the "low end" of a published load, sometimes using different brass, primers, & bullets, & then work up watching for pressure signs. You can also go above published maximums if you are not getting pressure signs.
With shotshells, you do not have the flexibility you have with metallic - - don't try to substitute primers or cases - find a published recipie and use the components and charges that are called for (there are some "clone" wads and a few primers that can be safely subbed, but this information is also published). Hulls are different. Remingtons and Federals, for example, require different wads and develop very different pressures with the same powder & shot charge. Do not go above a max published load. You will not get a sticky bolt or a cratered primer to let you know your pressures are getting too high. The good news is, you do not have to start at the low end of a load & work up - all loads published by a reputable source have been tested & are safe, but again, please stick to published components and charges when reloading for a shotgun.
 
Originally Posted By: BoomSplat

I've reloaded 10's of thousands of shot shells .........

When loading LEAD there is more leeway for using a different component than what is listed such as primers or wad.

I too, have probably loaded "10's of thousands", and if you've loaded "10's of thousands" then you should know better than to tell a new reloader that they can substitute components!
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A primer change can take a reliable, safe load over the pressure limits. Wad changes can do the same.

KAG, Here's the best advice you'll ever get about shotshell reloading:

Go by the published recipe!

Do not substitute components!

Don't load something that someone else recommends unless you can verify the published data!

 
Get off your soap box. Don't pull single lines out of the text to try and show how much you think you know. As mentioned in the FIRST STATEMENT read the manual. The change of a primer or wad in the TYPICAL LEAD trap or skeet load does not have the potential to take a safe load over the limit of any modern shotgun. If you think ALL published data is safe then why is there a liability disclaimer in the manuals in one of the first few pages of any manual you pick up? This is because the reloader is assuming a risk inherent with working with a hazardous material as defined by the NFPA. Do you as a safety conscious reloader follow guidelines for handling or using toxic or hazardous materials? Do you have a ground for each of your reloading presses mounted on you bench? Are you wearing a respirator and wearing impermeable gloves when handling lead shot? Are all of your powders stored in a certified storage container or locker before and after each use? Is your reloading area free of any combustibles and your bench made of all noncombustible materials? Do you ground yourself each and EVERY TIME you handle or transfer powder from one container to another to alleviate the potential for ignition from static discharge? ALL of these questions are covered in detail in Life Safety Code 101 or a Fire Safety Code by the NFPA. Hidalgo, if you follow each and every guide line I mentioned then I stand corrected for offering advice to another. I would be more than happy to discuss this in detail through PM's instead of an open forum and publicly discredit another member.
 
Originally Posted By: BoomSplatYou have really good press there and you will be able to produce some quality shells with it. But like any other reloading practice it PAYS to read your manual thoroughly before any actual reloading.

I've reloaded 10's of thousands of shot shells when I use to shoot trap and skeet due to economic necessity. Most of my shot shell loading these days is for waterfowl hunting and I use a version of the Sizemaster called Steelmaster. Your Lyman manual should have loads listed for buckshot listing hulls, primers, wad, powder, and buffering if needed. When loading LEAD there is more leeway for using a different component than what is listed such as primers or wad. This is not the case when loading NON-TOXIC shells as the load data has to be followed to a tee. Good source for large lead shot as well as other components is www.ballisticproducts.com. Hope this helps to a degree.

Boom

OK ... I won't pull a line out of your post ... I'll quote the entire thing. However, I took the liberty of putting the text that I'm referring to in bold so there's no misunderstanding. Nowhere in that statement did you make a reference to "skeet & trap loads". At least, my old tired eyes don't see that. And even if that were the case, most people know that a moderate skeet or trap load can be turned into a dangerous load simply by substituting the wrong wad or using a different hull. Now, as for me being "on my soapbox", I'll get on it and STAY on it if it means trying to keep someone safe from damaging a gun or harming themselves because they've been given wrong advice. Any seasoned reloader will tell a beginner to never substitute components. Never. And that's just the facts. You don't get second chances with shotshell loads. Over the pressure limits enough and there's a huge problem. I still stand on what I said in the beginning ... New reloaders should load only published data and never substitute a component.

And as for your statement about "what I think I know" ... save us all a little trouble and drop that where it is. I never insulted your intelligence or reloading talents. I simply took issue with your advice. No need to go there unless you insist ...

As for grounding reloaders, wearing gas masks (you gotta be kidding), and etc, you're grasping at straws. That has nothing to do with creating a safe (or unsafe) reload.
 
BoomSplat, you tell him to get off his soapbox and then go on this diatribe? Seriously??

Sorry but your original post is renegade and dangerous. Telling a new shotgun reloader that substituting for lead reloading is not something I want any part of. Mainly because it is simply not safe.

Should someone who is at the top of the pressure peak sub a Rem 209 for say a Fed 209A? If they do, whamo, you are running into dangerous territory.

Sorry but it is just unsafe practice is not something anyone should be telling a new reloader. Period.
 
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Thanks so much the input and I acknowledge safety is paramount as a base to start with.

As a very experienced handloader who has, does, and will make mistakes, I am venturing into shotgun handloading. Information given, I know to read between the lines on much and comprehend intent. I knew exactly what was being said. I was wanting advice from as many sources as possible. Thats what I like about forums....vast experience via a single source point.

Like everything I read, listen to, or see...in the end I keep my own counsel and completely assume 100% responsibility for anything I do. On any suggested loads I always try to trace the load information back to something verified. It just helps me look in a general direction.

The one thing I think that is crystal clear with shotgun handloading is Do Not Deviate from tried and true recipes until I know what I am doing and understand the complexities of shot shell dynamics.

I hope to be able to pick the minds of many in the future on ideas and advice as I work with shot shells.
 
Hey KAG an excellent resource for shotshell reloading that I'm a bit biased to is the Reloading forum over on Shotgunworld.

Some of those guys really know their stuff so it might be worth your while to bounce some topics/loads/questions off them too.

Just an FYI...
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Originally Posted By: KAG
The one thing I think that is crystal clear with shotgun handloading is Do Not Deviate from tried and true recipes until I know what I am doing and understand the complexities of shot shell dynamics.


Even then ... it's hard to "calculate" what a change will do. And trial and error with shotshell loads isn't a thing you want to do simply because there are NO pressure signs until the pressure results in some sort of breach. You'll figure it out, and you'll be fine. Like Shooter advised, SGW is a great place to learn about shotguns from all angles.
 
Dang KAG, you trying to start a war on here? LOL. Hope you get things figured out and be safe. I forgot to mention that with the purchase of my reloader I get a case of shells every year for free. HAHAHA!

Jeremy
 
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