list of questions
- Thread starter reaper4
- Start date
Run out is measured with a depth gauge and a fixture. Not going to necessary for hunting rounds.
A modified case is used in conjunction with an OAL gauge like the Hornady one. It is a guide to find the lands with the modified case and a bullet.
I set my FL sizer touching, then in 1/2 turn for my AR. It seems to work fine for me. On bolt guns, I go to touching, then turn in just a hair till the brass chambers with just a hair of resistance.
No dumb questions, we all learn differently. I'd suggest a couple more load manuals and some more reading. Also, look up the instruction manuals for the equipment you want to use, but don't own yet, like the OAL gauge and modified case.
A modified case is used in conjunction with an OAL gauge like the Hornady one. It is a guide to find the lands with the modified case and a bullet.
I set my FL sizer touching, then in 1/2 turn for my AR. It seems to work fine for me. On bolt guns, I go to touching, then turn in just a hair till the brass chambers with just a hair of resistance.
No dumb questions, we all learn differently. I'd suggest a couple more load manuals and some more reading. Also, look up the instruction manuals for the equipment you want to use, but don't own yet, like the OAL gauge and modified case.
ninehorses
New member
I'll take a shot at it.
1. You will need to order some equipment from Sinclair or Midway, I have loaded for over forty years without any. I'm not a competition shooter.
2. You don't, if you are just loading for a AR, as your limited to mag length, unless you single feed. For bolt actions, it is a tool to find where the lands start in a rifle. Seating bullets out long, or even into the lands is a way to get the most out of a rifle. Some bullets and rifles are very sensitive to seating depth changes. You will here of the term "Jammed" which is a bullet seated long into the rifling, once loaded it has to be fired. "Jumped" is a term for just off the lands by X amount. This is not for beginners, jamming bullets can jump pressures quickly.
3. Setting your die up to full length resize for a AR usually requires a good cam over on the shell holder to get reliable feeding. Range brass may even need a small base die.
1. You will need to order some equipment from Sinclair or Midway, I have loaded for over forty years without any. I'm not a competition shooter.
2. You don't, if you are just loading for a AR, as your limited to mag length, unless you single feed. For bolt actions, it is a tool to find where the lands start in a rifle. Seating bullets out long, or even into the lands is a way to get the most out of a rifle. Some bullets and rifles are very sensitive to seating depth changes. You will here of the term "Jammed" which is a bullet seated long into the rifling, once loaded it has to be fired. "Jumped" is a term for just off the lands by X amount. This is not for beginners, jamming bullets can jump pressures quickly.
3. Setting your die up to full length resize for a AR usually requires a good cam over on the shell holder to get reliable feeding. Range brass may even need a small base die.
reaper4
New member
hey thanks guys i really appreciate the patience to all my questions. im trying to go from decent ammo to really great ammo too quickly i can see that but it really makes reloading exciting and fun for me. it seems like every week i find new questions to find answers to and tweak things just a bit.
ninehorses
New member
Small base dies are for autoloaders and pump action firearms. They are made slightly smaller in the web area of the case to allow for easy feeding. Most AR shooters find that standard dies work fine. If you pick up range brass, especially some that have been shot full auto, they're just good insurance.
I absolutely disagree that measuring runout isn't needed for hunting rounds.
I bought a set of Lee dies in 30-06 for, you guessed it, my hunting rifle. Purpose of the ammo was to hunt & kill critters.
I went through a LOT of bullets, powder & primers trying to get a good group from my handloads. I couldn't get a 100 yard group under 3 inches, from a rifle that shot green box factory ammo into an inch.
I finally thought to measure the runout & it was off the charts, as I recall > 0.0015"
I threw those damned dies as far as I could, bought a set of Redding, almost no runout & I suddenly had good groups.
After that, every time I set up new dies, the first thing I do is measure runout on the neck after resizing & then on the bullet after seating.
I don't have enough time or money to go through that crap again.
I bought a set of Lee dies in 30-06 for, you guessed it, my hunting rifle. Purpose of the ammo was to hunt & kill critters.
I went through a LOT of bullets, powder & primers trying to get a good group from my handloads. I couldn't get a 100 yard group under 3 inches, from a rifle that shot green box factory ammo into an inch.
I finally thought to measure the runout & it was off the charts, as I recall > 0.0015"
I threw those damned dies as far as I could, bought a set of Redding, almost no runout & I suddenly had good groups.
After that, every time I set up new dies, the first thing I do is measure runout on the neck after resizing & then on the bullet after seating.
I don't have enough time or money to go through that crap again.
Hidalgo
Well-known member
Stu, we have to assume that anyone who reloads has purchased decent equipment. That includes dies. Good dies won't make bad hunting ammo. Bad reloaders with poor quality equipment do. (Not referring to you) There is always the debate that CSDs aren't necessary if you know how to seat a bullet. It's probably true but in my opinion a CSD that costs $100 is worth every penny in order to avoid inconsistent seating.
Your point is well taken and correct. But if runout is an issue why not buy a CSD instead of more measuring equipment?
Your point is well taken and correct. But if runout is an issue why not buy a CSD instead of more measuring equipment?
I had a neck sizing die from dillon that had excess runout. I doubt anyone can make the claim that dillon isn't quality. It happens.
biggen0_8
New member
Originally Posted By: Stu FarishI absolutely disagree that measuring runout isn't needed for hunting rounds.
I bought a set of Lee dies in 30-06 for, you guessed it, my hunting rifle. Purpose of the ammo was to hunt & kill critters.
I went through a LOT of bullets, powder & primers trying to get a good group from my handloads. I couldn't get a 100 yard group under 3 inches, from a rifle that shot green box factory ammo into an inch.
I finally thought to measure the runout & it was off the charts, as I recall > 0.0015"
I threw those damned dies as far as I could, bought a set of Redding, almost no runout & I suddenly had good groups.
After that, every time I set up new dies, the first thing I do is measure runout on the neck after resizing & then on the bullet after seating.
I don't have enough time or money to go through that crap again.
Stu: In your post you state .0015" as "off the charts" Now I'm not trying to be the "decimal point Nazi" here but did you mean .015" because I am quite satisfied with .0015" of runnout from my regular 38$ set of dies.
Now I do expect better than that from my Reddings and the one set of Whiddens that I've finally been able to afford.
I bought a set of Lee dies in 30-06 for, you guessed it, my hunting rifle. Purpose of the ammo was to hunt & kill critters.
I went through a LOT of bullets, powder & primers trying to get a good group from my handloads. I couldn't get a 100 yard group under 3 inches, from a rifle that shot green box factory ammo into an inch.
I finally thought to measure the runout & it was off the charts, as I recall > 0.0015"
I threw those damned dies as far as I could, bought a set of Redding, almost no runout & I suddenly had good groups.
After that, every time I set up new dies, the first thing I do is measure runout on the neck after resizing & then on the bullet after seating.
I don't have enough time or money to go through that crap again.
Stu: In your post you state .0015" as "off the charts" Now I'm not trying to be the "decimal point Nazi" here but did you mean .015" because I am quite satisfied with .0015" of runnout from my regular 38$ set of dies.
Now I do expect better than that from my Reddings and the one set of Whiddens that I've finally been able to afford.
2muchgun
New member
Originally Posted By: HidalgoStu, we have to assume that anyone who reloads has purchased decent equipment. That includes dies. Good dies won't make bad hunting ammo. Bad reloaders with poor quality equipment do. (Not referring to you) There is always the debate that CSDs aren't necessary if you know how to seat a bullet. It's probably true but in my opinion a CSD that costs $100 is worth every penny in order to avoid inconsistent seating.
Your point is well taken and correct. But if runout is an issue why not buy a CSD instead of more measuring equipment?
Assuming dies are good when groups are not so good is a futile endeavor, at best. It doesn't matter what brand they are.
"Knowing how" to seat a bullet has nothing to do with it. Rushing out and buying CSDs when you have no idea if current dies are working fine or not, is putting the horse before the wagon. Being able to measure runout of your handloads is an option I'd not like to ever be without.....
Your point is well taken and correct. But if runout is an issue why not buy a CSD instead of more measuring equipment?
Assuming dies are good when groups are not so good is a futile endeavor, at best. It doesn't matter what brand they are.
"Knowing how" to seat a bullet has nothing to do with it. Rushing out and buying CSDs when you have no idea if current dies are working fine or not, is putting the horse before the wagon. Being able to measure runout of your handloads is an option I'd not like to ever be without.....
[beeep], it was over 20 years ago. I just *might* be off a decimal point...
They've gone up. I think when I bought mine it was under $50, but then it was back around 1993...
http://www.amazon.com/RCBS-Case-Master-G...rcbs+case+gauge
http://www.amazon.com/RCBS-Case-Master-G...rcbs+case+gauge
I'm not going to pick on Lee dies. Plenty of people have loaded tons of accurate ammo with them.
Though I do admit that it pissed me off so much that I never was willing to take a chance on another set of them...
But really, one bad die set does not = bad product line, N=1 is not a statistic.
the plus side is that it did cause me to buy a tool to measure runout, learn how to use it & then use it to confirm that such wasn't the cause of any problems after that.
But, if you're loading ammo & getting good groups, then odds are you don't really need this tool.
Though I do admit that it pissed me off so much that I never was willing to take a chance on another set of them...
But really, one bad die set does not = bad product line, N=1 is not a statistic.
the plus side is that it did cause me to buy a tool to measure runout, learn how to use it & then use it to confirm that such wasn't the cause of any problems after that.
But, if you're loading ammo & getting good groups, then odds are you don't really need this tool.