Is there a point where elderly shouldn't get a tag?

Very interesting..

I was hoping that it would get people to think about this.

Let me say that First, I don't want to take away anyones permissions. My tag pool for Elk is different than the rest. So, I already have a tag. I also know other people that want to hunt that have gone a decade without getting drawn for a tag. Then i go out hunting, and see people out there that are for a lack of a better way to explain it, dangerous.
Dimensia has been kicking in over the years.

I would think that as long as you have someone with you that can handle, or suppervise as i do for my kids, that is different than someone that is out there alone or with someone else that is also unable to help.

I was also refering to "help" as taking the shot for others. Not just gutting them. But, Every year, while hunting, I get more than 10 other hunters that ask me to "help" them fill their tags. While my heart feels for them, and wish that i could help them, and understand that they are doing this for food (mostly for them) I don't do that since i think that it's unethical, and also illegal.
I know a lot of Seniors that are anything but senior. very active and it's great to see them gettting out and enjoying the outdoors. Its great.

I was just talking about those that are at the point in their lives when they are not capable of getting around, can't really shoot, and in the example I am talking about, a few years ago he did shoot an elk, it was a blood bath, he had shot this elk from under 100yrds and hit it in the neck, knee, gut, upper rear leg, and a few other holes. He litteraly took 7 shots to get it done. There were holes all over and i kept pulling lead out of the elk as i was skinning and gutting.

That, i feel, is someone that isn't safe, and ethical.

I would think that he could handle turkey hunting as he is using a shotgun and could carry that out. AZ does have diability tags and senior hunts, but think that, just like my kids having to take hunters Education, you have the expectation that you follow and comply with the rules and laws they teach and after reciently reading through the manual and reviewing the training that my daughter is about to take to get her Hunters Ed card, made me think of these Seniors and ask myself, if they couldn't pass the fire arms profiecency part of hunters ED, should they be out there using a TAG?
AZ has a wierd thing with the tags and there are a lot of hunters that go years without getting a tag, and then when you look at the success rates and hear "rumors" of people putting in that don't hunt to limit the tags to actual hunters, you start to try and think of a better way to do this.

Would i think it's to much to show up with an appropriate rifle to chech zero and shoot and prove that i can hit a 10" circle at 100 yrds, no. I don't that is asking alot. Do I think that its outragous to have someone talk to the individual for a second to make sure you are not dealing with someone that is a nut case or feable. nope. I don't.

As for the wounded warriors.. I am one, but take the responsibility and privilage of hunting seriously, and don't put in for tags that i know i can't fill, or at the very least really put in a good effort to do so. I feel that if i did do that i would be taking a tag from someone that really could get out there and do it.

Again.. It's just a thought. and before you get mad at me for suggesting it. Think about how you would feel walking in the woods knowing that someone that shakes like a leaf, has bad eye sight, can barely hold his rifle up, and uses a walker to walk to a water hole, is out there, and shooting at Elk in the same area you are. One of them is using his military issue Korean war service rifle with iron sights.
I just try very hard to stay away from them, and where they are. I don't want to be out there, and they make a mistake that sends lead my way.
 
You do make an interesting point though, that all hunters should consider. For instance...

Story Time
A few years ago my folks were out elk hunting and came across an older fella who had just downed a nice bull. It went over a small rise and dropped into a nasty canyon before giving up the ghost. He was alone, had no access to family or friends for support, and had no equipment or even a clue how to get that big ol' stinky bull out of the hole. He realized then he had bitten off way more than he could chew. Luckily, Dad happened along with packs, straps, winches, etc. and was able to wrestle that elk out of the canyon, up onto the flats, and into his truck. Then he carted it to the fella's camp, only to discover he wasn't prepared to skin it, break it down, or butcher. Dad ended up processing the whole elk for him just so the meat didn't go to waste.

So, while I certainly wouldn't advocate removing hunters' privileges because of age or competence, I definitely agree with you that hunters should consider what they're signing up for when they apply for these hunts and be prepared, either personally or with adequate support, to handle what they hopefully kill.
 
Originally Posted By: DesertRam hunters should consider what they're signing up for when they apply for these hunts and be prepared, either personally or with adequate support, to handle what they hopefully kill.

Jack O'Connor couldn't have said it better.
 
"That would be almost as bad as me suggesting that since you may have filled your tags in recent previous years and I have not, you should be restricted from getting a tag for this upcoming hunting season..."

That already happens, it's called preference points.
 
DesertRam, This just doesn't happen with the elderly. I have had it happen with young and middle age hunters who didn't have a clue what to do when a elk is on the ground. I have helped pack and process more elk than I want to think about for people just so the meat wouldn't ruin. I do it but it chaps my butt to take time out of a hunt to deal with clueless people. I would much rather deal with someone who physically can't do it anymore than some younger hunter who just hasn't taken the time to learn what to do and to know their limitations as far as where they should be hunting.

drscott
 
Good point there drscott. I didn't intend my post to only refer to the elderly, that was just the example that popped into my mind. My previous parting statement applies to younger, less experienced folks as well. I applaud new hunters getting out there; we need them. But you're right, they need to take the time to learn at least enough to not be totally worthless. Like you, I've taken time to help folks in over their heads. Hopefully they learned enough so the next guy coming along in my (your) shoes didn't get stuck doing the same thing we did, eh? Or maybe they're just lazy and expecting us to pick up their slack...
 
Originally Posted By: drscottDesertRam, This just doesn't happen with the elderly. I have had it happen with young and middle age hunters who didn't have a clue what to do when a elk is on the ground. I have helped pack and process more elk than I want to think about for people just so the meat wouldn't ruin. I do it but it chaps my butt to take time out of a hunt to deal with clueless people. I would much rather deal with someone who physically can't do it anymore than some younger hunter who just hasn't taken the time to learn what to do and to know their limitations as far as where they should be hunting.

drscott

Amen!!
 
Gotta learn somewhere I guess. Some from their dad or relative, some from friends. Some just have a go at it right or wrong. I say good on you for helping out. Next time walk them through it instead. No better way to teach the able bodied than by first hand experience. And if you're going to help pack out, make sure they get the rear quarters.
 
I ain't gonna lie... When I was real young I was intimidated watching a deer get gutted... But it was a satisfying feeling the first time i did it my self... A sense of accomplishment if you will... A bloody sense of accomplishment... I still take care of my kid's kills... Maybe this is the year for "her" to get that same sense of accomplishment...
 
This whole post stirs good and bad memories of experience.
With no teacher I learned it all 100% on my own, pre internet.
I have helped other hunters most of my life with attitudes all over the map.
What amazes me very often is what other hunters will say in person when encountered in my truck, The bigger the prize of the season the more astonishing it becomes.
I have had to test my own grit for field dressing, retrieval and processing. Reality is it's not easy and a helping hand would be good as I have suffered a negative impact.
Trying both sides is enlightening.
 
lol..

I remember 8 years ago making the move from birds to big game.

I put in for a tag, took hunters ed.. I then bought the Outdoor edge big game processing dvd. Did piles of research, and spent time out looking for Elk and learning about their behavior before the hunt.

I showed up a kitchen sink guy on the first day of the hunt.. I was walking everywhere with a pack that had the game bags and everything to process including a long very strong rope and a come-along.. Yep kitchen sink.

Of course I don't do that now.

But, as i am reading the book for hunters ed again, and seeing what they are talking about, maybe before you put in, you should have to get a hunters ed card from the state, and after hearing some of the comments here, they should change the material..

If we have fewer and fewer people going afield to hunt, Some of that may very well be the fact that people don't know how, and unless you have someone that know's what to do, it can be tough or overwhelming. Not that it's not possible for them to do the same thing i did.
But maybe, they should talk about the process of looking for the game species. The process and fundamentals of Marksmanship, and then the basic process, to include at the very least the how of cleaning out the common types of game.
The program now all revolves around the saftey of handling a weapon and very little on what is part of hunting. I have had a handfull of people that have asked me to take them, show them, and while it would be nice, it's really not something i can do right now. (teaching my two kids)

But, then again, maybe some of these guys that are a little past their prime and can't quite do it, handle the gun, and shoot straight. could still be there as Hunting mentors. It's also reasonable to expect that someone that does that should get a strap, or quarter, donated of course..
Just an idea..

Also point of clarification someone asked me. I am talking about Elderly as someone that cannot shoot straight and has vision that limits their ability to Identify their target clearly, and couldn't possibly process or even just Gut a big game tagged animal.

Yes, i do seem to hunt around a lot of seniors, but that has to do with the way they group Disabled hunts with Wounded Warior hunts. I can also say that not a day goes by during my week long hunt that i don't help someone either load, skin, gut, or just flat out tell them where to find the Elk and then help process the Elk in camp. All for the low price of a beer at the campsite at the end of it.
 
Here is a GRAPHIC video of a buddy of mines 72 year old dads deer he shot last year. I gutted, and dragged it out for him. I was the closest one to him, and heard him shoot. everybody pitched in a did the butcher for him.

I'm 53, and had a heart attack 5 years ago, and also several other health problems. I hope when I need help, someone will be there for me, and I plan to hunt until I can't walk, or see anymore.

This is a GRAPHIC video that got me kicked off of youtube. It was my first and last vid for the "tube". It seems that if I narrated it, it would have been fine .... Go figure. They said it was a "shock video" because of the slow motion shots of the exploded heart!
scared.gif
For an old man he got a good shot at about 80 yards.

I gutted the buck in under 7 minutes, with a 1 1/2" Boker Gnome, on a bet that I couldn't do it. Although I did split the sternum with a larger knife. You can see it in the for ground.

The black tape bandage on my thumb was from the night before splittin wood.

GRAPHIC
https://www.flickr.com/photos/svh12/15260294673/
 
Not an age issue, but an ability issue. Also,you don't need a tag to enjoy the hunt. Along the same lines and as previously touched on, I truly believe there should be some sort of proficiency test for big game tags. I do believe that hunting is a RIGHT, but that right should be respected. Too many animals are injured or killed without being recovered by "hunters" who were never prepared to ethically take an animal. It puts us all in a bad light.

I will openly admit that part of my issue is self serving. I LOVE to elk hunt(archery). I get sick of talking to guys who put in and get drawn for archery(because it is easier to get drawn than rifle) and don't even own a friggin bow.

I guess I should say I really only feel this way about archery.

Rant over. Sorry. What were we talking about?
 
Originally Posted By: AzDiamondHeat
I will openly admit that part of my issue is self serving.


Confession is good for the soul.
 
I disagree wholeheartedly with this idea. We need LESS bureaucratic involvement in our lives not more. Once you give an inch over time incrementally that inch turns into a control apparatus quagmire and a bureaucratic nightmare.


There are people out there working around the clock 24/7/365(very wealthy and powerful people) who seek to destroy this country, our culture, and our heritage in every way they possibly can through both regulatory fiat and through the legislative process in the name of safety and common sense of course.
 
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I would much rather have the chance to hunt just one more time with my father and his friends.....all of which are gone now, than some know it all, self serving whiner, that's been hunting a whole 8 years and I would do all the work for them, no problem.

They are the reason I do it and I don't forget it.
 
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