Humiliation - a desctructive form of discipline

Originally Posted By: nmleon...is that there is a direct connection between butt and brain in small children...

A most excellent point. Because of overwhelming political correctness, we rarely rely on this connection in today's society. I believe many of society's ills could have been avoided had more kids gotten a swat on the butt a few times during their childhood.

Quote:I find it especially disturbing that a teacher would think that he would have the right to interfere with my disciplining my child at any time.

Agreed. Unless there is clear evidence of abuse (bruising, etc.), stay out of parents' business. When it's time for my kid to get a spanking, he's going to get it.

Quote:"Diminishes self esteem?" Heck yes it diminishes his self esteem. As a parent or grandparent, why on earth would I want him to feel good about misbehaving?

Exactly, but this is what the liberals can't or won't understand. For some reason they want the little kiddos to always "feel" good, to be their pals rather than children. No winners, no losers. If more people were parents first, friends later I think we'd have generally "better" (for lack of a better word) kids all around. I doubt that many parents of the "Greatest Generation" shrank from the parental responsibility of correcting their kids' bad behavior.
 
Originally Posted By: HunterBear71Originally Posted By: nmleonA child will try to control his environment. From the time he's born he gets his way, cry, get fed/changed/entertained/etc. At a little older age he will try to control the adult by embarrassing the adult.

Crying or acting up in public is typical. You can temporarily give in and settle it later at home, but that lets him have his way. To you it's just temporary, to him it's a win over you. He has controlled you, and he will do it again.

When the punishment comes later on, the young child doesn't really connect the dots from the punishment to the misbehaviour.

My experience, having raised two boys and two girls to successful adulthood and now on grandchildren, is that there is a direct connection between butt and brain in small children. As they grow older the connection between ears and brain develops (more quickly in girls).

I am a firm believer in an immediate swat or two after an infraction to get the message to their brain while the infraction is proximate enough to the punishment for it to "take".

I think Scotts "pronouncements" from on high on child rearing, stated as though they were fact, are arrogant and insulting.

I find it especially disturbing that a teacher would think that he would have the right to interfere with my disciplining my child at any time.

"Diminishes self esteem?" Heck yes it diminishes his self esteem. As a parent or grandparent, why on earth would I want him to feel good about misbehaving?


I actually agree with this post completely.
That is two of us.

Suicide was mentioned. That is a problem that comes up in their teens and would be a result of mortification than humiliation. The true root cause of suicide is hopelessness not humiliation in of its self.
1. Calling a teenager out in front of his friends will be humiliating. Which in that case would be a deterent. Who would choose to go through that again.
2. Pulling a sixteen yearolds pants down in front of his friends and spanking him until he cries would me mortifying. He would never be able to show his face in public again. There is no way he'll get that girl he wanted. There is no hope. Why continue with this life. Should kill them all....

The two are way different. To deny it is to be closed minded................ Boomy
 
Originally Posted By: Boomy
2. Pulling a sixteen yearolds pants down in front of his friends and spanking him until he cries would me mortifying. He would never be able to show his face in public again. There is no way he'll get that girl he wanted. There is no hope. Why continue with this life. Should kill them all....

................ Boomy

With today's divorce rate a good firm hand from day one doesn't happen. Unfortunately today many are tought to do anything but what is right.
 
Originally Posted By: nmleonA child will try to control his environment. From the time he's born he gets his way, cry, get fed/changed/entertained/etc. At a little older age he will try to control the adult by embarrassing the adult.

Crying or acting up in public is typical. You can temporarily give in and settle it later at home, but that lets him have his way. To you it's just temporary, to him it's a win over you. He has controlled you, and he will do it again.

When the punishment comes later on, the young child doesn't really connect the dots from the punishment to the misbehaviour.

My experience, having raised two boys and two girls to successful adulthood and now on grandchildren, is that there is a direct connection between butt and brain in small children. As they grow older the connection between ears and brain develops (more quickly in girls).

I am a firm believer in an immediate swat or two after an infraction to get the message to their brain while the infraction is proximate enough to the punishment for it to "take".

I think Scotts "pronouncements" from on high on child rearing, stated as though they were fact, are arrogant and insulting.

I find it especially disturbing that a teacher would think that he would have the right to interfere with my disciplining my child at any time.

"Diminishes self esteem?" Heck yes it diminishes his self esteem. As a parent or grandparent, why on earth would I want him to feel good about misbehaving?

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Children and young adults are the best examples of humiliation. More often "KIDS" do more damage to each other than any parent or teacher does. Teach your kids to have thick skin! And that "Sticks and stones will break their bones, but names will never hurt them.",,.Hec many years ago in school we weren't humiliated by standing in the corner! We laughed at it! And when the teacher washed out Billy's mouth with soap for saying he would "Kill" that stupid dog named Spot,..well he just ran home and told Dad what the teacher did and that put the end to her method of discipline,.

Yes, times have changed but personally nobody that I have ever known whom payed the cost of the stated methods have killed themselves.

Most of boys/young men in our high school when I was in school teachers didn't mess with them anyway because they did'nt want their butts stomped by the big ole 15yo farm boy who in a couple of years would be on their way to the "NAM" anyway!

Vaportrail
 
Going back to one of the original comments in the thread.
Quote:Humiliation (and by this I mean those forms of old-fashioned punishment like making a child stand in a corner with a dunce cap on, pulling down his pants and spanking him in public, washing his mouth out with soap, or sending him to bed without dinner) wears down a child's self-image and self-respect. I have to point out that not all of this is "Public Humiliation"...

When I was growing up, I've had my mouth washed out with soap by my grandmother at age four, for repeating something that I heard my grandfather say in her presence....It didn't hurt me in my future years, except to make me more conscious of what I was saying..She could also peel off a switch from a Peach tree near the back door faster than I could escape if I failed to do as told and she was still one of the greatest women in my life..

I've been bent over a claw food bathtub more than once and been the recipient of the effects of a razor strop for disobedience or poor judgment in my actions and it didn't cause me to have less respect for my parents or life in general...

I've been singled out for punishment in school, in front of my peers, for various violations of school policies and deservedly so...I still respected the authority of the school...

I have a grandson that was deposited with us while his parents were going through a separation/divorce (he was about 2+) for awhile and one day he was doing something and was told to stop.. he was used to his mother going through the "count to three" stage,, and when he did it again, I said nothing and walked over to him, picked him up, and swatted his butt one time and his eyes and mouth opened in surprise, more than pain, and I said nothing else...He graduated from high school this year and he's one of my 'best buddies' and very respectful to everyone..

IMHO, there is a huge difference between discipline and humiliation...mainly in the way it is applied, but absolutely necessary...
 
I have had pillows put over my face, beaten with just about every imaginable house hold object including broom handles, switches, extension cords, soap down my throat, slapped, punched, kicked, spat on, the list goes on and on, and I will say I still love my mom and dad and hold no grudge against them. And to top it all off, I think I turned out just fine in life.
 
My daughter was a product of a broken home. She and I had a deal when she was growing up and that was 'logic, reason, and then, to [beeep] with it'. When it was necessary for discipline, which was not often, we went through the three steps to resolution; which seldom ever reached the 'to [beeep] with it'(physical discipline to a certain age) stage. At the age of 14, when she was entering high school, I sat down with her and explained she was entering 'the big times' in her life and that should she ever get her butt arrested? I would show up at the jail, check to see how she was doing, and then leave her sit for a day or two to evaluate the word 'stupidity'. It never came to that. We are, today as then, parent, child and best friends. When she had to defend her herself in different situations? I backed her 100%; when she was wrong? discipline of one sort or another followed. She didn't turn out to bad either nor have my grand children. Was my approach the best for every kid out there? not hardly, however, it worked for us.

Quite a different scenario than what I was raised in.....
 
I grew up in rural east Tn back many, many years ago and got my hide tanned on a regular basis. I never got one I didn't deserve and slipped by on many more. My dad had a ring of keys on his belt and by the time I heard them hit the floor my butt was stinging. He and Mom led by example and though they weren't rich they were well respected by all who knew them. They demanded the respect they had earned from me and took the time to teach me many things about life in general. I'm glad I didn't have all the electronic toys kids have today because I got to spend more time with my folks doing whatever work needed done. I admit that it took a few years after leaving home to truely appreciate what my parents tried to teach me but the older I got the smarter my parents were.

Oh, and that rings of keys.......they are hanging in a shadow box just below his military picture on my wall of honor.
 
My kids got a swat, when deserved, from a VERY young age. (rear end, only - where God provided sensitive padding). They have grown up to be extremely fine citizens, raising very fine children. My take on the problem is that, if you use the occasional swat as an "attention getter", by the time the kids are around 12 - it becomes almost unnecessary. If you don't have the child's attention & respect by that age, you have REAL problems! (After age 15, car key possession can be a great problem deterrent!)
Mark
 
My children were raised knowing that they ALWAYS had at least 2 choices.
#1. Choose to behave/do right.
#2. Choose to misbehave/do wrong.
If they chose the second option they got the consequences that came with it. Might be a blistered butt. Might be worse, a lecture with no end in sight. Might be a talk with me explaining to them why I felt the way I did.

I was raised by STRICT parents. If Daddy looked at us and made "eye contact" we best get our act straight. If we didn't, we KNEW that the next "look" WOULD be followed by his belt. I can count on one hand the number of times I got a WHIPPING from my Daddy. I also know exactly what I did to get them. One of those whippings left me black from hip to knee. To this day I am thankful for my raising. I never smoked, drank, or did drugs because it would not have been worth it if my Daddy found out. Simple, I knew better.

I do not believe in "beating" children. I do believe in consistently and properly applied, effective dicipline. Children figure out at a very early age what their limits are. Dicipline must be more than a threat. I firmly believe parents don't dicipline their kids today because they don't want to be bothered. This is a disservice to the child. Parents can teach and dicipline their child, or someone else will.-----Ben Jimmy.
 
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