MasterBlaster
Active member
Thinking about getting a thermal scope. How much I'm I looking at to get going? Do I need one to scan with too.
Thank you
MasterBlaster
Thank you
MasterBlaster
How much do I need to spend to get good thermal
- Thread starter MasterBlaster
- Start date
This is my opinion so take it for what it’s worth . The pulsar xq38, or armasight 336/42mm model are the way to go for “entry level” Believe both in 3300ish range. Unless all your shooting is under 50yds you’ll want a focus, and a bigger lens , not provided by less expensive models. Other stuff still provides an “image”, but it’s not very good. It’s still better than a red/green light.
Gman757
Active member
Originally Posted By: MasterBlasterThinking about getting a thermal scope. How much I'm I looking at to get going? Do I need one to scan with too.
Thank you
MasterBlaster
IMO you need to have a scanning unit. The normal progression is a thermal scanning unit first and shoot with lights or NV, and then get a thermal scope if that is what you want to use to shoot with also. Some try to skip this step and scan and shoot with the same unit. Swinging your gun around to scan is tiring, unsafe if you end up seeing another hunter since you are looking at them with your rifle pointing at them, and the movement will get you busted hunting coyotes.
The size of the lens determines your FOV and the size of the image you will see at the native resolution of the unit. You can use digital zoom to increase the image size but it will decrease your resolution. On the low end you will see 19mm units and they go up from there. I use a 19mm for close range hog hunting and a 35mm for open fields. The range you plan to use the unit should be your first consideration. FOV narrows along with increased lens size just like any other scope so keep that in mind.
If most of your hunting is close range I would take a look at the FLIR PTS233. I have not looked through one of these yet but just by checking the specs I can tell you that it looks like a lot of bang for your buck. The core pitch also determines image clarity and even though this is a 320 core it has a 12 micron pitch which should yield a nice image. At a price of approximately $2200 it seems to be a bargain. I would have to handle to unit to know for sure but you might be able to start with this unit as a scope and then make it your scanning unit if you decide you need a unit with a larger lens after hunting with a 19mm.
If you need a larger lens I would look into the Pulsar line for your best price point.
Thank you
MasterBlaster
IMO you need to have a scanning unit. The normal progression is a thermal scanning unit first and shoot with lights or NV, and then get a thermal scope if that is what you want to use to shoot with also. Some try to skip this step and scan and shoot with the same unit. Swinging your gun around to scan is tiring, unsafe if you end up seeing another hunter since you are looking at them with your rifle pointing at them, and the movement will get you busted hunting coyotes.
The size of the lens determines your FOV and the size of the image you will see at the native resolution of the unit. You can use digital zoom to increase the image size but it will decrease your resolution. On the low end you will see 19mm units and they go up from there. I use a 19mm for close range hog hunting and a 35mm for open fields. The range you plan to use the unit should be your first consideration. FOV narrows along with increased lens size just like any other scope so keep that in mind.
If most of your hunting is close range I would take a look at the FLIR PTS233. I have not looked through one of these yet but just by checking the specs I can tell you that it looks like a lot of bang for your buck. The core pitch also determines image clarity and even though this is a 320 core it has a 12 micron pitch which should yield a nice image. At a price of approximately $2200 it seems to be a bargain. I would have to handle to unit to know for sure but you might be able to start with this unit as a scope and then make it your scanning unit if you decide you need a unit with a larger lens after hunting with a 19mm.
If you need a larger lens I would look into the Pulsar line for your best price point.
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MasterBlaster
Active member
757,
In Iowa you can't use lights or cast any type of a beam. So I am bound to the state laws. I think (not sure) that my only option is thermal.
MB
In Iowa you can't use lights or cast any type of a beam. So I am bound to the state laws. I think (not sure) that my only option is thermal.
MB
Nonnieselman
New member
I've got a PTS233 19MM and really like it. We did a small group buy and got them for a really good deal.
When I get to work tomorrow I'll post the images and videos.
I also have a FLIR RS32 35MM and the PRS 233 is alot more crisp and clear.
When I get to work tomorrow I'll post the images and videos.
I also have a FLIR RS32 35MM and the PRS 233 is alot more crisp and clear.
I have a Pulsar XQ30V and HD19. Both are decent entry level units for scanning at their respective price points. I like them both (I have one helmet mounted and one as a handheld) but I’m probably gonna sell one to fund a thermal scope. I don’t think you could go wrong for entry level at those prices, unless you’re looking to ID animals at 250 plus yards. At that range, and further for just detection, they’re solid.
midwestkid
Member
I have a xq30 scope and have killed over 20 coyotes with it so far. My farthest shot has been 210 yards. My advice is decide on what model you want and buy the next step up from that one. I don't have a monocular to scan with but it is next on the list.
jk2paintworx
New member
I have been caught up in this whirlwind of thermal decisions for a couple weeks now. It's mind numbing trying to decide. It's just a couple hundred dollars to the next model up and midweststkids suggestion is right on track but it just keep working it way up from XQ38 to XQ50 to XP38....... Then you are like might as well just get the one you want. And next thing you guys are saying "once you look through 640 you are ruined". No you went from $5k budget to $10k. Lol.
I am trying to decide if I want XQ38 or XQ50 Trail/Helion I want a handheld and a sight. I will only be using for coyotes. Thoughts?
I am trying to decide if I want XQ38 or XQ50 Trail/Helion I want a handheld and a sight. I will only be using for coyotes. Thoughts?
masshunter
Active member
Like Masterblaster, I can't use any lights, nor any rifle larger thn 22lr. Would I be looking for thermal goggles ? Or is there a thermal scope ? I don't have any local gun shops that sell this stuff and may have to take a road trip.
You can get by with a 384x288 microbolometer scanner. For a scope I would not go less than 640x512, mine has a 75mm objective. It is pretty sweet. Trying to scan & shoot with scope would be a pain for me. JMO you can get by with less. A lot of people on this site do successfully.
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DoubleUp
Well-known member
Here is a short video clip I shot from my house with my Pulsar Apex XD50A with 25 micron pitch and 384 core. It would be considered older technology compared to the newer Apex and Trail models with 17 pitch. The new Apex models are 384 core while the Trail models come in 384 for the XQ series and 640 for the XP series. Really it depends on how much you want to spend or can afford to spend. I've killed a pretty good number of coyotes with my Apex even out beyond 250 yds. and don't yet feel a need to change it out. The closest deer in this clip is 150 yds. away and the others go out several hundred yards. The Church in the background is 950 yds.
Here is the clip: You have to double click on the picture to get it to play the video.
Deer by Double Up, on Flickr
I have a pretty good number of coyote kills on video using the Apex XD50A on YouTube. You can find them under Dirty Dogs Done Dirt Cheap link below or some of them are posted in the video section above.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXT9fPFr5vH8PpvCv0IuUug
Don't know if it will help you in your decision.
Here is the clip: You have to double click on the picture to get it to play the video.
Deer by Double Up, on FlickrI have a pretty good number of coyote kills on video using the Apex XD50A on YouTube. You can find them under Dirty Dogs Done Dirt Cheap link below or some of them are posted in the video section above.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXT9fPFr5vH8PpvCv0IuUug
Don't know if it will help you in your decision.
Kirsch
Active member
Originally Posted By: old catYou can get by with a 384x288 microbolometer scanner. For a scope I would not go less than 640x512, mine has a 75mm objective. It is pretty sweet. Trying to scan & shoot with scope would be a pain for me. JMO you can get by with less. A lot of people on this site do successfully.
The scanner is what you are using 95%+ of the time. It is also what you can use to help read landscape, help find calling locations, determine ID of animals, etc. The scope is typically only used for the kill shot. Once a coyote is within typical killing range (let's say 300 yards and closer), any decent quality 384 core scope is going to allow you to kill the coyote. If I am choosing for a better image on the scanner or the scope, I choose the scanner. The other factor that is a huge difference is field of view and base magnification. People's input as you can see by this post is going to vary. I would talk to someone like Tom at Night Goggles who has looked through and used most of the major brands.
The scanner is what you are using 95%+ of the time. It is also what you can use to help read landscape, help find calling locations, determine ID of animals, etc. The scope is typically only used for the kill shot. Once a coyote is within typical killing range (let's say 300 yards and closer), any decent quality 384 core scope is going to allow you to kill the coyote. If I am choosing for a better image on the scanner or the scope, I choose the scanner. The other factor that is a huge difference is field of view and base magnification. People's input as you can see by this post is going to vary. I would talk to someone like Tom at Night Goggles who has looked through and used most of the major brands.
1trkyhntr
Well-known member
I've been following this question and I will add my 2 cents based on my experience with hundreds of hours on different thermals, both 320 and 640 core units.
I agree with Gman, get a scanner, and a scope, if you can afford it. For a scanner I prefer a wider wield of view than a high native magnification. I will say that a 320 core scanner is plenty good enough for the area that I hunt, but I did upgrade to a 640 this year. The new 640 does not show a thing that the 320 did not show, just better detail. I am only using it to spot a heat source, when I do I immediately switch to the rifle. And I agree with what he said about FOV. More is better at night.
I also agree with Old Cat, for the rifle you will want a 640 core. That is what you will be looking through and making the ID when you pull the trigger, not the scanner. Down here in the East a 50mm lens would not be necessary but the native magnification would be nice if you can afford it.
I won't recommend one brand over the other, that is a personal choice.
I agree with Gman, get a scanner, and a scope, if you can afford it. For a scanner I prefer a wider wield of view than a high native magnification. I will say that a 320 core scanner is plenty good enough for the area that I hunt, but I did upgrade to a 640 this year. The new 640 does not show a thing that the 320 did not show, just better detail. I am only using it to spot a heat source, when I do I immediately switch to the rifle. And I agree with what he said about FOV. More is better at night.
I also agree with Old Cat, for the rifle you will want a 640 core. That is what you will be looking through and making the ID when you pull the trigger, not the scanner. Down here in the East a 50mm lens would not be necessary but the native magnification would be nice if you can afford it.
I won't recommend one brand over the other, that is a personal choice.
rustybucket
New member
Originally Posted By: Gman757
MasterBlaster said:
Those deer look familiar...
Kirsch
Active member
Originally Posted By: 1trkyhntrThe new 640 does not show a thing that the 320 did not show, just better detail. And I agree with what he said about FOV. More is better at night.
I agree with this statement. There have been many people who thought they absolutely needed a 640 scope until they looked through my 320 and were amazed or watched my videos. There are so many factors that go into this. At one point, I had one brand of 640 scanner and a different brand 320 scope. My 320 scope was so much better than the scanner, that I switched brands and went to a 640 scanner in a similar model as my 320 scope. As 1trkyhntr says, there are some finer details I can make out with the 640 that I can't with the 320 but that is about it. I would have gone with the same resolution scanner but the FOV would have been sacrificed in the model I purchased. I have a hunting partner that actually prefers looking through my scope vs same brand and model 640 scanner. His quote to me is "why would anyone ever need more than this?" I like the way a lot of other people have said it, IT IS NEED vs WANT.
My recommendations is look through as many thermals as you can if possible, talk to experienced dealers who have used them all, and maybe even rent one before buying if you are undecided.
I agree with this statement. There have been many people who thought they absolutely needed a 640 scope until they looked through my 320 and were amazed or watched my videos. There are so many factors that go into this. At one point, I had one brand of 640 scanner and a different brand 320 scope. My 320 scope was so much better than the scanner, that I switched brands and went to a 640 scanner in a similar model as my 320 scope. As 1trkyhntr says, there are some finer details I can make out with the 640 that I can't with the 320 but that is about it. I would have gone with the same resolution scanner but the FOV would have been sacrificed in the model I purchased. I have a hunting partner that actually prefers looking through my scope vs same brand and model 640 scanner. His quote to me is "why would anyone ever need more than this?" I like the way a lot of other people have said it, IT IS NEED vs WANT.
My recommendations is look through as many thermals as you can if possible, talk to experienced dealers who have used them all, and maybe even rent one before buying if you are undecided.
My .02 cents..........
I hunt in IA as well. Went to thermal about 3 years ago or so. I'm on the other side of the camp when it comes to a scanner, and I don't think they are needed for the hunting I do. A lot of people talk about pointing your weapon at your fellow hunters at night without one.... I hunt with 3 guys religiously, sometimes 4, and we never point our weapons at each other. Its pretty easy for us to coordinate that ahead of time before we are in the field. Without my need for a scanner, I opted to spend more on my thermal itself. For my use, I found that between a 30-50mm lens provided me the optimum FOV. I have hunted behind a 100mm, and that was way too narrow for me.
If you ever make it to SW IA, I'll gladly let you take a look through my MK2 35mm.
I hunt in IA as well. Went to thermal about 3 years ago or so. I'm on the other side of the camp when it comes to a scanner, and I don't think they are needed for the hunting I do. A lot of people talk about pointing your weapon at your fellow hunters at night without one.... I hunt with 3 guys religiously, sometimes 4, and we never point our weapons at each other. Its pretty easy for us to coordinate that ahead of time before we are in the field. Without my need for a scanner, I opted to spend more on my thermal itself. For my use, I found that between a 30-50mm lens provided me the optimum FOV. I have hunted behind a 100mm, and that was way too narrow for me.
If you ever make it to SW IA, I'll gladly let you take a look through my MK2 35mm.