Hevi-Shot "Dead Coyote" pattern tests

Has anyone, tried a regular modified or full choke "non-choke tubed" barrel shotgun with this ammo?

Example; water under pressure in a 1" pipe, being forced to exit a 1/2" discharge opening. Which would cause more turbulance near the end of the pipe. As compared to a "gradual" narrowing pipe. Which would spread out this friction/turbulance over it's length.

I'm no "smith" But, I think it would start to form pellet postion more "uniformly" further back towards the breech, in a "non" choke-tubed barrel.

As compared to the "pellets" being forced to postion in the last 6" of a "choke-tube" barrel. Which would seem to me. Would/could cause pattern problems, with large shot. Being forced to converge suddenly, rather than more gradually.
 
[quote) from bl00dtrail:

Hevi-shot is super hard and doesn't deform like lead BB's. It tends to bounce off itself when it is overly constricted through a full choke that is why the pattern opens up too soon. It will also destroy chokes that are too tight after awhile. I have been shooting hevi-shot for 3 years on waterfowl and I have been using a "patternmaster" choke with fantastic results.



So apparently you hadn't researched this much either, because this difference is what I was investigating. The guys shooting the super full chokes, and now apparently Remington is saying what you posted above is incorrect. What is the restriction on your pattern master choke and since you've apparently never shot a coyote, what were your paper results when you were testing the Dead Coyote?
 
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Previously, I was told by a reliable source that bl00dtrail said he had shot two coyotes with "Dead Coyote" and was very happy with the results.
Now I'm really confused! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
Cal,
The information that I have about hevi-shot is based mostly on my experiences (with the smaller shot sizes). When I first started using the stuff Remington and environmetal both warned against using tight chokes and even displayed warnings about its use in older "damascus" type barrels. Remington even came out with a special "hevi-shot" choke that was supposed to be stronger and able to handle the abuse of the much harder/denser shot pellets.... I talked to a Remington rep about this topic three years ago and the information I gave you is what he led me to believe. It's obvious that now Remington has changed their mind about shot/choke recommendations..... probably because of someone (like the fellas on this board) "pushing the envelope" and having positive results doing so! I was doing what I had been told by the manufacturers of the products I was using..... and having good success following their instructions.Quote:
. The people at Hevi Shot told me to use my modified choke for better patterns at longer range.



....looks like they gave you the same info? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

I cannot seem to find the restriction diameter of the patternmaster choke (not sure if I ever knew) but here is their website if you want to ask: http://patternmaster.com/chokes.html
..... this choke was recommended by a Remington rep to me before they came out with their "hevi-shot" choke.

my hunting partner used my shotgun on two coyotes that I called in late March.... both were less than 50 yards and I couldn't say that at 40 - 50 yards it performed any better or worse than #4 buck..? On paper through my choke I got similar results as the #4 buckshot I am used to using.... the only reason I would use the Hevi-shot is because Michigan has a "no centerfire, and no buckshot" rule while night hunting... and since "T" shot isn't "buckshot" I would be legal with a shotgun at night (with a load that would kill a coyote).

You are correct in the fact that I haven't shot 200 rounds of "Dead Coyote" shells.... but I have shot close to 750 rounds of "Hevi-Shot" through my shotgun..... I didn't realize it was such a major difference

sorry if I added my 2 cents
good luck and have a great day
 
I'm in the same exact situation as you are then, as far as the Dead Coyote load. I'm not seeing any better results out of it that 4 buck or copper coated lead BB's, I am no where near having a pattern that would consistantly kill a coyote at 50 yds, let alone the 80+ yardages that are being claimed. So I am going to have to try the other chokes, and since Byron has had good stuff to say about the Trulocks and ExCav has had the same experience, I think that is what I will try first. Last year at Rawlins at the Nationals my partner shot "Dead Coyote" and killed two with it, but at 30 to 40 yds, so anything else would have worked as well. He shot several others with it last winter, but again at normal shotgun ranges (less than 50 yds). I got 4 shots of it into a coyote at 40 to 60 yds the other day and still had to mop him up with a rifle, So obviously my choke-gun combination is still not right.
 
Cal,

Here's a more detailed rundown on my Dead Coyote experience. As I stated earlier I initially ordered an Extra Full Trulock choke (.685) after talking with one of Trulock's employees who said he would recommend that size to try first, at $35.00 a pop I was sure hoping to get the results I was after, considering it was tighter than the modified choke I had used I went ahead and ordered it. When I tried to pattern it I was VERY disappointed at the results at 50 yds. My thinking was if this is the best I can get out of it it's not worth it. So I finally got ahold of George (owner) of Trulock Chokes and explained what was going on, his answer was honestly he had shot everything Hevi-Shot makes EXCEPT Dead Coyote due to time constraints with how busy his shop had been. I told George of Byron South's experience with the tight turkey chokes and he paused for a moment and said he would send me a turkey .670 choke at no charge to try it and send back the one that didn't perform between the two and let him know about the results. He went on to explain that based strictly on his experience with the Hevi-Shot buckshot and the #2 Hevi-Shot the .670 "should" be pretty darn closes to the correct size for the "T" sized Dead Coyote. Needless to say, you now know it was the Extra Full that was sent back to George. This may seem like an ad for Trulock chokes but is merely my experience (a great one at that). I should point out that I used the "Precision Hunter" non-ported, extended model and that all of his chokes are 17-4 heat treated stainless steel. I mentioned this to my Dad who is a retired metallurgist and he seemed to approve of the specs for the application. Trulock is not the only mfg that uses 17-4 stainless steel, Carlson Chokes comes to mind though their website does not show an extended turkey .670 for my Benelli. If you go to Trulock's website it's a bit confusing as the sizes are listed in amount of reduction size not the actual opening size. I hope you benefit from my experience and hope you get the same smile I did when I saw the results with the CORRECT choke.
 
Quote:
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Previously, I was told by a reliable source that bl00dtrail said he had shot two coyotes with "Dead Coyote" and was very happy with the results.
Now I'm really confused! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif




I guess he's not going to answer you on that one YellerDog. It's the pits when you tell a little fib on the WWW and it comes around and bites you in the a$$. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
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Cal,
The two Patternmaster chokes I've seen and fiddled with were both .685" if I remember correctly. I know that Kick's BuckKicker choke is .680" unless you specify otherwise and they'll make one to whatever you'd like. Just FYI. I'm going to do some pattern work with Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote and some of their high velocity Hevi-Shot waterfowl loads with BB shot this summer. Like everyone else I'm looking for a significant improvement over the No. Four Buck load and choke I currently use. I'm easy good to fifty yards in the field with it, but, not as far as some of the claims I hear and see on the internet about other loads and chokes. I'm from Missouri, ya gotta show me, so to the range I go. If I can kill coyotes to 75 yards with a 3" .12 gauge I'll buy a case of the stuff right now, whatever it would be!

In fact, this coming week I'll be testing Remington's Hevi-Shot 00 Buck from some police issue 870 cylinder bore guns along with a whole bunch of "Tactical Buck" to check on some of the new improvements in LE shotgun ammo. I shot some Hornady TAP 8 pellet 00 the other day from a 18" cylinder bore 870 that patterned within 10"-12" total spread at 25 YARDS. That never used to happen! This along with the mentioned Hevi-Shot 00 and Federal's Tactical 000 with Flite Control are all supposed to be outstanding from typical cop shotguns. We'll see next week on the range! BTW, I'm also testing new slug loads, think I'll have a sore shoulder a week from today?
 
Quote:
Quote:
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Previously, I was told by a reliable source that bl00dtrail said he had shot two coyotes with "Dead Coyote" and was very happy with the results.
Now I'm really confused! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif




I guess he's not going to answer you on that one YellerDog. It's the pits when you tell a little fib on the WWW and it comes around and bites you in the a$$. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif



I already explained.... killed 2 coyotes with it.... I didn't pull the trigger. You never went calling with your buddy and when you came home said "saw 5, killed 3..?" even though you didn't kill all three of them? I guess from now on I'll have to say the bullet killed the coyote because it was traveling at a high rate of speed and the coyote was in its path........ come on! No fibbin here... and if you'd like to see the hides come on over!
 
GC, knowing your line of employment, I thought you might find it interesting to know that Virginia Beach City Police have been issued nothing but slugs for their standard issue 870's. After a study conducted by the departement, they realized there is less of a hazard potential to innocent bystanders from slugs than buckshot. I read the write up on the "hole" matter, it was interesting. Since buckshot spreads something like an inch between pellets for every yard it travels, so after 18 yards they said, the spread was wider than a human torso.

Naturally, I proposed "Lightfield Hybrid Slugs"-booyah! They need all the help they can get down there at the beach.
 
PatternMaster chokes also work on a little bit different theory than most conventional (constriction type) chokes.
They have raised "posts" inside the choke which slows the wad. This prevents the wad (being lighter) from blowing through the shot once it leaves the barrel and destroying your patern.
How Pattern Master chokes work.
Above is a link to their site where they show how they work.
When I talked to Patternmaster about a choke for my Benelli M1S90, they suggested using their "standard" choke.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...ssPageName=WD1V
 
Sonny, I understand the problem with buckshot spread. Many moons ago I had an on the job shooting in which the bad guy shot at me with a 3" .12 gauge turkey load of #4's from about 7 yards. It sounds crazy but I never heard his shot and could actually see the shot/wad exit the barrel and wobble like a badmitten shuttlecock high and wide of me seated in my patrol car. His shot went right over the front window/roof junction. I acclerated my car and took advantage of a huge oak tree to stop behind. My "partner" took off up the street and stopped about two blocks away, but, at least he did two things for me. He got on the radio and yelled for help, and, he left the shotgun in the rack in the car. I shot my attacker at 22 yards when he leveled his Mossberg pump at me again after he'd pumped another shell up. I was using a standard Remington 870P with 18" inch cylinder bore barrel with bead sight and shooting barricade position from behind the tree. Our issue load was Winchester 2 3/4" 9 pellet 00 Buck and five of the nine struck the bad guy. Fight over. Not sure where the other four 00 Buck went. These new "tactical buck" loads seem to be performing to a new level. As I said, 10"-12" total spread @ 25 YARDS for the TAP load from an 18" cylinder bore 870! There is some new technology in wads being developed such as the Flight Control and another called the CHOKE wad that is giving the typical open choked police shotgun nearly double the range with buckshot. As for slugs only from the gauge, that doesn't make sense to me. Why saddle the officer with a heavy recoiling, less accurate longgun with limited magazine capacity, limited range, that is harder to get back in to action for reloads? Why take away the ability to use the variety of shotgun loads from Less Lethal beanbag, ceramic breaching, small shot for pest/vermin, buckshot and finally slug loads? The proper utility of a patrol shotgun is hard to match. That was one of the problems with L.A.P.D. during the North Holloywood bank robbery in which the bad guys wore the serious body armor and carried AK's with the 75 round drum magazines. L.A.P.D. only issued 00 Buck rounds for their shotguns. A few slugs placed in the right spot, or in the right way, may have prevented the need for police to loot the local gunstore for AR-15 rifles and ammo that they had never sighted in or shot before. IMHO you gotta tap the total potential of the shotgun to realize it's true versatility and usefulness. If I were to issue a longgun firing single projectiles then a magazine fed carbine/rifle of some mid-caliber centerfire cartridge would be my choice. Personally, I don't know if I understand or like the concept.

crapshoot,
Many choke tubes have some wad stripping feature. Kick's ported chokes accomplishes the same thing with the porting vents. Other companies have similar designs. From what I understand it's a worthwhile venture. BTW, the new Federal Flight Control wad is designed to stay WITH and ENCOMPASS the shot to hold it together and protect it from venturing apart. Federal specifically warns against using a choke tube with any such wad stripping feature or ports. Early word on their new turkey and tactical buckshot loads using this wad seem very promising. As I said, I'll be testing a 8 pellet 000 Buck load next week and am looking forward to seeing how it performs. The Flight Control wad opens from the BACK to slow and seperate, instead of the front as wad's have done for years.

Another side note just FYI. Kick's use to offer the ability to try different diameters with no cost if not satisfied. In other words, say you wanted to try a .670" for your Hevi-Shot T's and it didn't quite suit you. You could send it back for an exchange of another diameter choke for no charge. Do this until satisfied or you hit the sweet spot. I don't know if they'll still do this, however, a few years ago that was the deal. That takes the risk out of venturing into the custom choke arena.

One other note, I've heard tell of Remington bringing out a new Hevi-Shot No. Four Buck load as a companion to the now available 00 Buck. That might be an interesting coyote killer. If it'll outpattern existing loads? I guess time will tell.
 
blOOdtrail.
Here is the exact message you sent. No word about partner.

Best of all a 55 yard shot with a modified choke? I say modified now because of your previous posts here. You are right "Phenomenal stuff"! PAY attention to the line I and I will say again "I shot again"!

The date on the information you sent me about "YOUR kills was a over a month before the Michigan Season closed. The date sent was 2/26/05. Again way before your claiming two kills, or somebodies kills.

Heck I don't want to see hides anyone can buy them I want to see pictures of you holding dead coyotes.

Skinner 2

and the e-mail

shot 2 so far..... 1 at 35 yards and another around 55 yards (he was running straight away and I put it right on the back of his head) .......... the 55 was bang/flop

the 35 "rolled" and I shot again.........

Its phenomenal stuff!! just expensive!!

both were average sized males

see ya
__________________
"I'm from S/E Michigan" ........ home of the "HEADHUNTERS"!!
 
I did some backdoor snooping through a Remington LE rep as we discussed their loading of Hevi 00 Buck. I mentioned Federal having a "Tactical" loading of no. Four Buck and he said that Remington would be bringing a similar loading out as a companion load to the 00. He couldn't give me a date on it but said it was in the works for sure. We'll see...
 
Thanks GC, #4 Buck Hevishot sounds good to me. Hopefully it will hit the shelves before fur season.

I just re-read your post up above, I thought you didn't like the big 00 buck loads for Coyotes. Something change your mind?
Or are you just testing it for LE purposes?
 
I hate it when this happens. We seem to have lost the bl00dtrail, Quick form a grid and see if it can be located.

Another line to this which lead to doubt was a comment about this stuff being good out to 100 yards and he was very willing and confident to try the shot, again with modified choke tube!!! Didn't state but the shotgun must have a 30 foot barrel!

Skinner 2
 
Skinner2,

FWIW, I dropped a 50lb coyote with 3-rds out of a 36" full-choke 12ga. Marlin mod #55 {non-tubed} shotgun. Useing 3" buffered Buckshot. Hit him with the 1st shot @ 100yrds with #4Buck, the last 2 rds @ 110yrds with #3 or #00Buck, before DRT.

Is that range ideal?, probably not. But I was quite familiar/confident & experienced with my shotgun. It's pattern, these loads & downrange energy @ those yardages.
 
Quote:

Is that range ideal?, probably not. But I was quite familiar/confident & experienced with my shotgun. It's pattern, these loads & downrange energy @ those yardages.



Buckshot is still a long way from T shot. I would think more luck than anything else with these distances. Now if you did this 24 times out of 25 I would say you have something, ok 23 times.

However When I question the use of "Dead Coyote" I was informed on how great it was and how well it performed and confident the guy was out to 100 yards. Now he posts an said he never killed a coyote with the stuff, AND was told to only use modified chokes.

Heck I know a guy who shot a huge 10 point out past 100 yards with a bow. Emptied the quiver, has no idea what arrow hit it in the butt, but he did kill it. Does this mean 100 plus bow shots should be taken, or promoted, NO!

Skinner 2
 
Quote:

has no idea what arrow hit it in the butt,



They call that the West Virginia Lung shot!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif
 
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