Heavy barrel vs. sporter barrel

I can post pics of groups in the 0's shot off a bipod at 100yds, groups well under 1/2" shot off a bipod at 200yds, and groups under 2 1/2" shot off a bipod at 600yds. all this proves is that this particular rifle shot well on that particular day. your right, they are mine and I can build them how I choose as can you and everyone else here. I really don't want some guy to be disenchanted because his rifle isn't all he dreamed it would be. will truing the receiver guarantee a great rifle....NO! will it erase any doubt as to whether you should have had it done......YES! as far as even lug contact is concerned, you must consider very PARTIAL even contact to be adequate. I have NEVER seen ANY Remington come from the factory with more than 50% "even" lug contact.


chuck
 
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Originally Posted By: ChuckWilliamsI can post pics of groups in the 0's shot off a bipod at 100yds, groups well under 1/2" shot off a bipod at 200yds, and groups under 2 1/2" shot off a bipod at 600yds. all this proves is that this particular rifle shot well on that particular day. your right, they are mine and I can build them how I choose as can you and everyone else here. I really don't want some guy to be disenchanted because his rifle isn't all he dreamed it would be. will truing the receiver guarantee a great rifle....NO! will it erase any doubt as to whether you should have had it done......YES! as far as even lug contact is concerned, you must consider very PARTIAL even contact to be adequate. I have NEVER seen ANY Remington come from the factory with more than 50% "even" lug contact.


chuck

Whatever...

It never fails. Someone asks a simple question about a hunting rifle, and gets an answer that he has to true the action, pillar bed the receiver, put a $200 trigger in it, and change the caliber from 243 to 6mm PPC, or he will not be able to get any accuracy from it.

Enjoy your rifles.

 
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Originally Posted By: ChuckWilliamsI can post pics of groups in the 0's shot off a bipod at 100yds, groups well under 1/2" shot off a bipod at 200yds, and groups under 2 1/2" shot off a bipod at 600yds. all this proves is that this particular rifle shot well on that particular day. your right, they are mine and I can build them how I choose as can you and everyone else here. I really don't want some guy to be disenchanted because his rifle isn't all he dreamed it would be. will truing the receiver guarantee a great rifle....NO! will it erase any doubt as to whether you should have had it done......YES! as far as even lug contact is concerned, you must consider very PARTIAL even contact to be adequate. I have NEVER seen ANY Remington come from the factory with more than 50% "even" lug contact.


chuck

GUARANTEED???!!!!


Travis
 
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he was inquiring about a 600-700yd hunting rifle not a 100yd deer rifle. everyones expectations are different and mine are quite high.

chuck
 
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guar·an·tee
[gar-uhn-tee] Show IPA noun, verb, guar·an·teed, guar·an·tee·ing.

noun
1.
a promise or assurance, especially one in writing, that something is of specified quality, content, benefit, etc., or that it will perform satisfactorily for a given length of time: a money-back guarantee.
 
Thanks for all the replies haha wasn't trying to hit a sore subject. I guess more or less looking to find the most bang for my buck and which direction to head toward
 
I don't wish to sound glib but, you can either spend or not spend the money, ultimately the choice is yours about what needs to be done or what you want to have done.
QC on a couple of actions I've owned and built rifles on in the past has been pretty poor and required some work. In one case I scrapped an action and went with another one.
You might have a good action to start with already. You may need to have the action cleaned up to make everything concentric especially if you are screwing a high dollar tube on it and you are trying to achieve BR type results.
Everyone here has made very good points about both sides of the coin, ultimately its about what your expectations are, what your budget will allow and whether your action could use some cleaning up or not. It's also about what you intend to do with it once your finished.
Maybe I missed it but, is the "cheap, new" barrel a takeoff or just that..... a new barrel for little money.
This is where a very good, honest 'smith is really needed to evaluate what you have and what you need to do to go forward in a collaborative effort to put something together that meets your expectations.
Thats my experience for what it's worth.....
YMMV

BD
 
smokeless.jpg



Since we are bragging about rifles weve built.....FIVE shot group with smokeless muzzleloader. 100 yrds from a bi-pod WITNESSED. On a trued Remington action. PFFFT.
Can we bragg on national champions shooting our rifles and the current 1000 yrd world record holder?
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Originally Posted By: ackleymanOriginally Posted By: CatShooterTruing an action is very over-rated.

It "might" show benefits in a benchrest rifle, but only if a lot of other things are done at the same time.

Without the full treatment, truing alone is a waste of time and money - and most gunsmiths that claim to true actions, have no idea what they are doing.

It will never show benefits in any field or hunting rifle, and it is money down the tube - no one will pay you a dime more for your rifle when you go to sell it.


.

+1

I spent a lot of money verifying the exact same thing that Catshooter has also found. I used rem 700 actions (one trued and one non trued), Hart barrels, chambered with the same reamer, bedded in McMillen Benchrest stocks. I could not tell the difference in groups, wind had more effect on which one shot the best.

For many, blueprinting an action is a point of pride, so knock yourself out! As for me, I will not blue print another. Another thing, if you do go the route of blueprinting an action, for goodness sakes, purchase a set of wind flags which is a heck of a lot more important!

Something you are missing here, most rifles don't need to be trued because they are decently made already, the more an individual rifle is inaccurate because it needs to be trued the bigger difference truing is going to make. It's a matter of if it ain't broke it doesn't need fixin. Now if you are shooting one of those rifles that won't shoot under three inches truing might make a big difference.

I've never seen the need to true a Sako action.
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Originally Posted By: woodguruOriginally Posted By: ackleymanOriginally Posted By: CatShooterTruing an action is very over-rated.

It "might" show benefits in a benchrest rifle, but only if a lot of other things are done at the same time.

Without the full treatment, truing alone is a waste of time and money - and most gunsmiths that claim to true actions, have no idea what they are doing.

It will never show benefits in any field or hunting rifle, and it is money down the tube - no one will pay you a dime more for your rifle when you go to sell it.


.

+1

I spent a lot of money verifying the exact same thing that Catshooter has also found. I used rem 700 actions (one trued and one non trued), Hart barrels, chambered with the same reamer, bedded in McMillen Benchrest stocks. I could not tell the difference in groups, wind had more effect on which one shot the best.

For many, blueprinting an action is a point of pride, so knock yourself out! As for me, I will not blue print another. Another thing, if you do go the route of blueprinting an action, for goodness sakes, purchase a set of wind flags which is a heck of a lot more important!

Something you are missing here, most rifles don't need to be trued because they are decently made already, the more an individual rifle is inaccurate because it needs to be trued the bigger difference truing is going to make. It's a matter of if it ain't broke it doesn't need fixin. Now if you are shooting one of those rifles that won't shoot under three inches truing might make a big difference.

I've never seen the need to true a Sako action.
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I didn't miss anything, and neither did Ackleyman...

My point was that unless you are building a bench rifle, truing an action was a waste of money, and even if you ARE building a bench rifle, you are not likely to see any difference.

The world's record group was show before some gunsmith's dreamed up another way to pay for their kid's braces... truing actions (and pillar bedding).

If you have a rifle that is shooting 3" groups, truing will NOT make a millimeter's worth of difference, because it is the barrel, not the action, that causes that kind of piss-poor performance.


.
 
Does sleeving and centering a firing pin really mean your flame from the primer will be concentric? Does the powder laying on one side of the case really burn concentrically? Bullets simply need their best chance to enter the rifling concentrically, everything else is a game of "maybe", and absolutely a game of fractional milimeters at best that very few shooters will ever actually realize (action flexion, recoil movement, non-perpendicular bolt face to bore, etc).

I suppose if you just WANT to do it and it makes you feel better while you have the barrel off, then knock yourself out.
 
Originally Posted By: VarminterrorDoes sleeving and centering a firing pin really mean your flame from the primer will be concentric?

??????????
 
Savages floating bolt head design
& other bult in accuracy features
are the cheapest way to a good shooting rig
I've had trued remmys with custom barrels & 375.00 triggers
that didnt shoot well
I'm sure some do -the ones I had didnt

now I have several pawn shop savages
& a one store bought one that all shoot .5 moa or better
 
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Originally Posted By: StraatmannI have a remington 700 .243 I found heavy barrel to put on it for cheap, about to good to pass up. The gunsmith wants $250 to take old barrel off, true the action, and put the new barrel on. Should I snatch it up or would I be better off putting my money some where else, I'm mostly looking to make it a better varmint/600-700 paper gun, I already have my scope on it so I don't need money their, opinions?

Nothing wrong with a takeoff or used barrel. People sell barrels for all different reasons. Second guessing "why" is pointless. It'll screw right onto your action and chances are excellent that headspace will be fine, I've done it a bunch of times. A gunsmith shouldn't charge much to unscrew one barrel and put another one on. If yours wants more than about $40, find someone else.

Amazing the junk that gets posted when someone asks a simple question. This stuff about truing the action is bs. It's not necessary. I've a whole bunch of Rem. actions and most of them trued. Just because. But it's not necessary and with future builds I won't have it done. Here's one instance..... a gunshow (used) sporter 22-250....found a load that punched 3-shot triangles in the .2's-.4 one after another. It was a good shooter. Action X. Took that barrel off, had it AI'd and put on another a different action that was trued. As an AI on that different (trued) action, accuracy was exactly the same except faster. It was a truck gun. Several months later when I had that gunshow action X barrelled and trued.....my riflebuilder said the action was way out of true, the worst Rem he'd ever seen. That good barrel shot identically on both actions.
 
Originally Posted By: VarminterrorDoes sleeving and centering a firing pin really mean your flame from the primer will be concentric? Does the powder laying on one side of the case really burn concentrically? Bullets simply need their best chance to enter the rifling concentrically, everything else is a game of "maybe", and absolutely a game of fractional milimeters at best that very few shooters will ever actually realize (action flexion, recoil movement, non-perpendicular bolt face to bore, etc).

I suppose if you just WANT to do it and it makes you feel better while you have the barrel off, then knock yourself out.

Does sleeving and centering a firing pin really mean your flame from the primer will be concentric? - NO

Does the powder laying on one side of the case really burn concentrically? - It all burns at once.

"... action flexion, recoil movement, non-perpendicular bolt face to bore, etc" This BS stuff is nutz...


.
 
Originally Posted By: CatShooter"...vaction flexion, recoil movement, non-perpendicular bolt face to bore, etc" This BS stuff is nutz...


.

Exactly... Lord knows I wasted a bunch of money chasing precision machining in an action and I sure didn't shoot well enough to tell the difference! Barrel, trigger, glass, stock fit, and ammo...
 
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