Got pulled over with my Can

You have no idea what kind of person I am at work. And I gave you no reason to assume that. All I said was that if a cop wants to find an infraction to dig deeper, he probably can. You have no idea how many traffic infractions there are and how many you probably commit to very day at least 100 times. (I do it to) you on the other hand are telling people that their rights have been “trampled on” when you clearly don’t know the intricacies of these laws and case law. If you don’t like cops, that’s cool man.
 
I personally have had almost all good interactions with cops, especially as I grow older.

However, the idea that someone either comply with any request voluntarily, or else they'll find a reason for a citation, definitely rubs me the wrong way.

Don't get me wrong, cops do what seems like an impossible job. Keep the bad people from doing bad things, all while keeping it within the laws and respecting the privacy of the harmless is a hard thing to do.
 
All I said was that if a cop wants to find an infraction to dig deeper, he probably can.

True, let me tell you a little story. I once lived in the Central African Republic. The capital city Bangui was the only place in the whole nation I ever saw. Uniformed officer. The one thing a white man did not do was go downtown from about 11am to 1pm as the cops were looking for lunch money and you would be stopped. One time a friend needed some supplies and didn’t look at his watch. Gets downtown and is stopped by the first two cops that see him ( there is always two together) there was no driving infraction so they pull a safety check. Believe me with the rough roads we had there was normally not a vehicle in the country that didn’t have something wrong. In this case they could not find a thing mechanically wrong but they needed lunch money so they gave him a ticket (that was to be paid on the spot) for his license plate light being too dull at the noon hour. I think they wanted 15,000 franc but settled for 5000, where there’s a will there is a way
 
I get that 204 and I was just warning that cops can go a long way and stay within the law. I’m not saying cops are like issue a citation for those minor infractions. The point was that if a cop wants to stop a vehicle it’s very easy to do so. I stop next to people all the time that are parked on the side of the road or in a parking lot after hours. I just ask them if they are ok. If they are and there doesent appear to be anything crazy going on I go about my day. The point of my original post was that cops don’t need any suspicion to talk to you or ask questions. And you don’t have to answer them. If a cop wants to at the very least just identify you and see if you have warrants out, all he has to do is observe any infraction and now you are required to furnish a drivers license and required vehicle documents. Cops don’t generally do this kind of thing unless they have a suspicion that something is wrong or the person is acting nervous or something. I’m not one of THOSE guys. I’m just a guy that has a job to do and would never violate a persons rights to do so. At the same time, I will use the LAW to my advantage when I need to.
 
Reaper4,
Nervous? Suspicious?

Are those Felonies or misdemeanors?

Just to be clear, I am not a LEO hater, I have many close friends that are LEO.

The unfortunate part is that only a few of us know how to assert our rights and millions don’t!

I apologize for saying you are one of THOSE Cops, however your words and demeanor say otherwise!
 
No my words are just what I used to try and explain what a cop CAN and CANT do without violating any rights. You are telling people their rights are trampled on and clearly don’t know the law at all. You are the kind of guy I love to come in contact with at work. I would never violate a persons rights and it makes me happy when citizens know their rights. What just makes you look bad is when you try to assert rights you don’t have.
 
What is your question about being nervous or suspicious? And you know there are more levels to violations of the law than misdemeanors and felonies right?
 
Let’s just say I pull up to a parking lot at night and there are two vehicles just sitting there after hours and the are on opposite sides of the business. If I approach one and ask if everything is ok and they say they are just waiting for someone to get off work or meeting a friend to go coyote hunting, I would most likely just talk coyote hunting with them for a minute and leave. Wouldn’t even think to ask for an ID or anything.

Now if I approach car#2 and ask if everything is ok and they appear nervous or are acting suspicious, I would ask for an ID. If they just tell me no, I can’t do anything to get it UNLESS as I am walking back to my vehicle I notice an infraction at which time I can explain to them that they are being stopped due to the infraction I observed and then I can obtain their ID and go further in investigating why they are there.

None of this is violating any rights. It is just being a cop. I would denounce any cop stoping people without cause but the public also needs to educate themselves on the law.

Most of the time if I make contact with anyone it is because I have already observed a violation. But sometimes if I feel like someone might not be ok, I ask. You would be amazed and what cops come across and how good they can get at reading people. Have a great day
 
What I am trying to say -
If a violation occurs? Great issue a citation, it’s the law.

If you Don’t have probable cause ie- a violation then move on!

Don’t harass and violate ones GOD given rights because you think you can.

You as a LEO have a sworn oath to uphold the constitution.

That is what I am saying.......end of story!
 
Uhhhhhh that’s pretty much what I have been saying except you don’t need probable cause what you need legally speaking is reasonable suspicion. man lol that internet law degree is really showing . Keep practicing your sovereign citizen speech and let me know how that works out for you.
 
Looks like I struck a nerve!



Keep beating and harassing law abiding citizens, it shows your true colors!! How many times have you been brought before IA office?

As far as my law degree? Obviously I paid attention in class, you chose not too, now you hide behind your badge!!

I am just a guy that knows when a Cop is ripping away someone’s rights, far from a sovereign citizen!

Suspicion is neither a Felony or Misdemeanor, suspicion does not give YOU as an LEO the right to stop, search, interrogate and detain a citizen, a crime must be committed or about to be committed as you should well know.

A consensual conversation is a completely different story.

Oh - and don’t forget, Public Servant, you work for me!

PS - you don’t warrant any more responses from me, say what you will, I am done with you.

 
Originally Posted By: Mr. PoppadopalisLooks like I struck a nerve!



Keep beating and harassing law abiding citizens, it shows your true colors!! How many times have you been brought before IA office?

As far as my law degree? Obviously I paid attention in class, you chose not too, now you hide behind your badge!!

I am just a guy that knows when a Cop is ripping away someone’s rights, far from a sovereign citizen!

Suspicion is neither a Felony or Misdemeanor, suspicion does not give YOU as an LEO the right to stop, search, interrogate and detain a citizen, a crime must be committed or about to be committed as you should well know.

A consensual conversation is a completely different story.

Oh - and don’t forget, Public Servant, you work for me!

PS - you don’t warrant any more responses from me, say what you will, I am done with you.



How exaclty is he "beating harassing law abiding citizens?" Seems to me you need to go check out donut operator on YouTube, maybe he could clear up some of your misconceptions.
 
The only thing that strikes a nerve with me is people who are ignorant of the law acting like they know their rights when they don’t. I appreciate coming in contact with the 1st amendment auditor types because they tend to actually know the law. I like chatting it up with the 2A protestor guys because they are always well informed. What bothers me is people like you will end up making me do more paperwork by trying to assert rights you don’t have because you don’t read and now I have to do a use of force report because you didn’t think you had to exit the vehicle when told to on a traffic stop.

#1 what have I said to warrant the accusation that I beat and harass anyone?

#2 what have I said that would lead you to believe I am hiding behind anything?

#3 a reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is afoot actually gives LEO the authority to stop, frisk, question and detain a citizen. (Terry v Ohio) So keep working on that law degree

#4 I most certainly don’t work for you.

#5 your an idiot
 
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Originally Posted By: reaper4The only thing that strikes a nerve with me is people who are ignorant of the law acting like they know their rights when they don’t. I appreciate coming in contact with the 1st amendment auditor types because they tend to actually know the law. I like chatting it up with the 2A protestor guys because they are always well informed. What bothers me is people like you will end up making me do more paperwork by trying to assert rights you don’t have because you don’t read and now I have to do a use of force report because you didn’t think you had to exit the vehicle when told to on a traffic stop.

#1 what have I said to warrant the accusation that I beat and harass anyone?

#2 what have I said that would lead you to believe I am hiding behind anything?

#3 a reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is afoot actually gives LEO the authority to stop, frisk, question and detain a citizen. (Terry v Ohio) So keep working on that law degree

#4 I most certainly don’t work for you.

#5 your an idiot

Dead center....
On all 5 points.
grin.gif
 
Originally Posted By: reaper4The only thing that strikes a nerve with me is people who are ignorant of the law acting like they know their rights when they don’t. I appreciate coming in contact with the 1st amendment auditor types because they tend to actually know the law. I like chatting it up with the 2A protestor guys because they are always well informed. What bothers me is people like you will end up making me do more paperwork by trying to assert rights you don’t have because you don’t read and now I have to do a use of force report because you didn’t think you had to exit the vehicle when told to on a traffic stop.

#1 what have I said to warrant the accusation that I beat and harass anyone?

#2 what have I said that would lead you to believe I am hiding behind anything?

#3 a reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is afoot actually gives LEO the authority to stop, frisk, question and detain a citizen. (Terry v Ohio) So keep working on that law degree

#4 I most certainly don’t work for you.

#5 your an idiot

Absolutely dead on.
And you should be thankful people like him are willing to work during a pandemic. I am first responder myself, so I know the headache.
 
I am not a lawyer or LEO, but have a question on suspicion.

OK, In American I do understand anyone can walk up to anyone in a public area and ask a question, except maybe someone under secret service protection or other VIP.

My question is concerning suspicion. Does the LEO have to suspect a certain crime has been or is about to be committed to detain and demand ID? Or can the LEO just suspect someone is a bad guy and up to no good and detain and demand ( not ask voluntary) ID. In the first I can understand needing to comply, in the second case is that still lawful?
 
Originally Posted By: CoyotejunkiI am not a lawyer or LEO, but have a question on suspicion.

OK, In American I do understand anyone can walk up to anyone in a public area and ask a question, except maybe someone under secret service protection or other VIP.

My question is concerning suspicion. Does the LEO have to suspect a certain crime has been or is about to be committed to detain and demand ID? Or can the LEO just suspect someone is a bad guy and up to no good and detain and demand ( not ask voluntary) ID. In the first I can understand needing to comply, in the second case is that still lawful?

LEO can legally detain you for a reasonable amount of time if they have reasonable and articulate suspicion to believe a crime has been or is about to take place. I believe 20 minutes?
They can ASK for ID, you do not have to show it unless you have been arrested! Detainment and arrested are two completely different things. This is if you are out and about walking down the public street or any public owned property. Tax payer funded.
This is if your state is NOT a Stop and ID state.

Their are currently 24 states with stop and ID.

Are you required to carry ID, in the state of Maryland? Short answer: No. Long answer: Under certain circumstance, yes. If you are driving a motor vehicle, you must have a valid state (any state) drivers license.
Different laws apply when operating a motor vehicle.
 
On a Public side note- I would like to personally apologize to Reaper4 for any personal attacks I may have said about him in this thread.

He doesn’t know me and I don’t know him. Neither of us were at the many traffic stops the individual above stated.

I will stick to my law degree and Reaper4 can stick to his!

I agree to disagree with him and a few others on this thread.

I am in no way an LEO hater, that is not my way nor my intentions. As I stated earlier, some of my best friends are LEO at high ranking positions in the state of Colorado.

I am on the frontlines everyday of the week with my work, I am receiving Additional HERO pay and considered essential. Millions of people rely on the the products I sell according to the FDA.

Thank you to all first responders and Front line workers, be safe and healthy!
 
A LEO may only detain a person if there Are facts or circumstances that would lead a reasonable person to believe that criminal activity is afoot. The officer would have to justify why that person was detained. OR in my example the officer must have a reasonable suspicion that an infraction occurred which is different than a crime. Then the person MUST furnish their license to drive a vehicle. My original point is that most people’s vehicles themselves would offer an officer an infraction to use to detain the driver of it. My personal truck has a license plate frame that obstructs the letters on the tag. I could legally be pulled over for it. Now no real cop is writing that ticket unless you are a teal a** hole to him/her. but they may use it to identify someone or stop a vehicle if they think something more serious may be going on in the vehicle.

The thing to understand is that there are legal ways for cops to do a lot of things. I will never advocate for the violation of citizens rights but I also understand that cops have to walk a thin line sometimes between doing good police work and violating rights. Cops are humans and make mistakes like anyone else.

I appreciate the apology. I never meant for things to get out of hand but I am a guy that prides myself in what I do and always try to push my guys to remember why we do this and that we aren’t here to make peoples lives harder but to meet them on their worst day and be fair and use sound judgement when dealing with anyone. Do we all want to make arrests and get bad guys off the street? Yup! And some cops go way too far with the authority we are given but the vast majority want to make their communities better.
 
Originally Posted By: Mr. PoppadopalisI am receiving Additional HERO pay and considered essential. Millions of people rely on the the products I sell according to the FDA.



are you a toilet paper salesman?
 
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