Effective coyote range for .223?

Quote:
You can shoot off of a bench instead of the hood of your truck (while at the same time being careful not to knock the speaker off of the roof of the truck)



/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif PRICELESS

Don't worry about opening up on the off days. Roadhunters never back their words up when there are witnesses.
 
After reading all the posts in this thread I still think the effective range of a .223 on coyotes is 200 yards. JMHO and I'm still sticking to it. Well maybe another 50 or so on those little ole desert dogs.

Coyote 6974
 
Well, I was reading reply to reply untill it drifted off topic. Here in TN they have started allowing .223 for deer.
I have taken 5 deer with my 16" ( really SHORT!ballistically speaking) Ar. I'm loading really hot loads to get the velocity back up to compensate for short barrel.

I have shot 2 buck deer out at 200 yards, and they both went straight down, and never moved.(65 grain S,GK BTSP @ 2900 fps) My coyote load is a 60 grain Varmint bullet 2950 fps.

At 400 yards, from my short barrel my AR is delivering as much energy as a GI .45acp at the muzzle.Easily enough for a dog or deer. It's about shot placement, always has been, alwys will be.


400 yards is my limit on deer.(With my 16" AR) I have no limit on Dogs, I don't like them, they eat fawn & polt.

Exactly like Shakey yankee said, Get a scope with a reticle that is usable at range. Learn it intimatly. Learn your rifle & load's dope, intimatly. Learn to identify wind speeds in field conditions. You only have to get it approximate for short range shooting (inside 600 yards.)

And shoot 60 grain + bullets, they drift less and retain more energy.


Research & learn: This country has an epedimic of misinformation about firearms & ballistics, generally it is a belief that the system is capable for far less than it is.. The Rifleman is a dying breed. Research & learn, for example:

What is an MOA? How big is it at 300 yards? at 679? At 1351?


What is a Mil? (Milradian) How big is it at 211 yards? at 687? at 1561?

How do convert from Mil to MOA and back?

How do you compensate for a 54 degree down hill shot? What about a 29 degree up?

What does a 20 degree temp change do to your zero at range?

What is a quartering wind? How do you figure for it? (Not "common sense," you guessed wrong)

What is density altitiude? Why should you care?


The range, of any given firearm is only limited to the guy driving it. Don't settle to be grandma, holding traffic up!
 
tresmon,
I agree 100% shoot within your capabilites. For me I believe that max is 300 yards off my bipod. But I believe that the .223 is capable out to at least 400 yards but I do not want to wound anything and watch it run off and have to then track it or at the very least educate it if I do miss. But I am not beyond throwing a few peices of lead at the running or stopped yote out there a ways if the yote has already busted me. The ones granted I have only seen a couple of yotes personally shot at the 250+ mark with the .223 but none of tem went anywhere.

There are guys that use the .223 for a long range target rifle. The bottom line is your PRACTICED and PROVEN abilities, if you are comfortable shooting that far and are capable of it the .223 I believe is up to the challenge. There is another post right now that Kirby from Iowa I believe shot a running dog at 350 is and put it down. He hit too far back but he got her none the less.
 


PS:

The Nikon 4-16 Buckmaster with Target turrets, Side focus & Mil dot reticle is THE best dollar for dollar, scope for scope out there. There are better scopes, for a rediculously high price. There are lesser priced scopes of rediculos low quality.

The Buckmaster is the optimum dollar-to-quailty ratio you can get on a scope anywhere, currently.
 
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Thanks everybody I love it. Its so funny to see how stirred up people get (I do it sometimes too). If people want to brag and rant and BS there way through life then let them. Most of us know the truth. Yeah he might have hit one at 500 yards who cares I sure dont. He must not be doing something right. I have even had smart Utah dogs /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif about run over the top of me. So to all that stir the pot keep it up. I guess I can say its my soap opera. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif
 
Here's a little food for thought; well actually a photo for thought. This is a smallish western female coyote, weighed about 18-20 pounds. Im holding in front of it, a 24 ounce coke bottle for comparison, which approximates the lethal area for a (gawd I detest this acronym) "DRT" shot, I just gagged even typing it:) Anyway, it covers the heart/lung area,and just behind the lung area, the liver.
Now can you imagine saying with impunity, if that dog was at 500 yards it was a dead dog most every time?
After the hide is stripped off a coyote, you can see, there isn't much to shoot at. Everyone thinks coyotes are 14 inches deep in the chest,and eight inches wide, it's just not so. The average coyote is at best 5-6 inches deep, and maybe four inches wide,and thats taking into account the shoulders, which aren't leathal if hit, only crippling....there's a lot of fur surrounding very little leathal area to hit.

Picture015.jpg
 
I think the effective range of a 223 is all up to the shooter, many of us could never hit a coyote at 500yds (I know not me)will it kill a yote at 500yds, ballistics say yes. If you hunt here in MI a 223 is a fine yote gun, out west a 22-250 or 243 might be a little better. Choose a caliber that you can shoot accurately, and you can kill many dogs. This is my opinion.
 
That is awesome and that is what good calling will get you over roadhunting, a near-on-demand coyote photo to demonstrate the actual kill zone of the animal.

I've seen plenty of animals in pictures dropped dead in photos but that is probably the best picture I've seen in awhile that actually shows something of value for the average coyote shooter.
 

Perhaps there are two sub-topics going on here....
One is proper, one is well meaning but off topic..

The focus of the tpoic is just as the heading says:


""Effective coyote range for .223?""

So in my mind the author wants to know, at what max range, does a .224 projectile from a ".223 Rem" have the ability to cleanly kill an "average" coyote.

So many people have chimed in and stated you should not have to shoot them at extended range if you "know what your doing" "know how to call" "know how to set up right" etc.

All true, but how does that relate to the authors question?
It does not. This is a ballistic question, not a hunt/call technique question.
 
Chile,

I too appreciate your photo. But I think you gave some facts in your responce that is slightly contradictory of the intended thought behind your reply.

You make a good point about the size of the area containing vitals in a small coyote. Your exactly right, it takes skill & practice to put a bullet in a 4" circle at long range.

But, you also brought to light how small a coyote is in general. I would like to point out that this sure is a small animal, to soak up 300+ Ft. Lbs. of energy/hydraulic shock (at long range, considerably more energy at moderate range)

Many combat studies show the killing effect of energy from a bullet transferred to living tissue causing death by shock to the immediate area (organ shut down, etc.) and shock overall to the being.

Shoot a combatant in the forearm with a .45, and if the combatant is not treated for shock the combatant is a goner. A certian sniper school taught that even with the limited .308 as a sniper round, that if a combatabt is shot anyhwere from the knees up, He most likely will dye from shock, period, unless immedialty treated by a talented and well equipped medic.

Back to our little pup...

Animals, like us are mostly water.. hit a bag of water with a 300 pound blow, and the hydraulic displacment of the water will over strain the entire bag. Where tissue is involved, the water meets the tissue with such force it dissolves it. Imagine a hunk of Jello at a car wash with a high pressure sprayer. The Hydraulic column from the blow of the bullet, literally does to tissue what the sprayer does to jello. This is the science that causes the extreme seperation of the animals depicted on the video "Prarie Dog Be Gone." Not that I support the sale/purchase of a dvd showing animals dying by dramatic means, especailly when presented as humorous. I find it distasteful and wrong. But that's another subject.

Back to my previous statment:
"I would like to point out that this sure is a small animal, to soak up 300+ Ft. Lbs. of energy/hydraulic shock "

So my standing is, to deliver all or most of that energy to a coyote, almost anywhere on his body, is going to kill him, and pretty quickly.. (this all referring to the use of well engineered explosive Varmint bullets)

As far as hitting the yote at long range, refer to your picture. Vertically the yote is not a big target. But with Modern range finders letting you know the precise range, and modern ballistics programs, it is quite easy to keep your bullet on target vertically(at the ranges we're speaking of.) Now horizontally: well that is were it takes practice reading & doping the wind.
Operator experience comes in to play when trying to stay on target horizontally. BUT, for our sakes, most game animals have a broad area horizontally. This makes a misjudgement of the wind more forgiving, as the target is wider than tall.

Extremist are able to score 80+% first round hits on a 60" target at 3000 yards. (Special Operations Hard target[nuclear weapons] interdiction snipers, with Chey Tac equipment)

A coyote at 500 yards is really no big thing with a little self education, an accurate rifle,tailored ammo, an anemometer(wind meter), Range finder, calculated range card and practice for an AMATUER. A seasoned shooter can do it with only a Mil-dot scoped rifle & range card. After all regular ol' guys score 2000 + yard hits on even smaller rock chucks.


It's 5:30 am, I'm sick and woke up at 4 am unable to sleep.
I took oppertunity to babble about things no one really cares about!

Have a great day!
 
Quote:
Here's a little food for thought; well actually a photo for thought. This is a smallish western female coyote, weighed about 18-20 pounds. Im holding in front of it, a 24 ounce coke bottle for comparison, which approximates the lethal area for a (gawd I detest this acronym) "DRT" shot, I just gagged even typing it:) Anyway, it covers the heart/lung area,and just behind the lung area, the liver.
Now can you imagine saying with impunity, if that dog was at 500 yards it was a dead dog most every time?




Chile, it will be DRT if you DO YOUR PART /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Quote:
That is awesome and that is what good calling will get you over roadhunting, a near-on-demand coyote photo to demonstrate the actual kill zone of the animal.

I've seen plenty of animals in pictures dropped dead in photos but that is probably the best picture I've seen in awhile that actually shows something of value for the average coyote shooter.



+2 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

Thanks for posting that Chili.

And thanks for not being afraid to call 'BS' when you hear it.
Now,,,,,,,,Go wash your hands. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Quote:
So my standing is, to deliver all or most of that energy to a coyote, almost anywhere on his body, is going to kill him, and pretty quickly.. (this all referring to the use of well engineered explosive Varmint bullets)


Bull Pucky. Hit him any where except main blood artery or pump station and that coyote may not die for days.
You haven't shot many coyotes in a leg/forearm and recovered them, have you? Probably because it ain't going to happen.
Kind of like the 17 hmr advocates that always say, shoot'em in the head, except they fail to realize the brain is the only part that is fatal, and it's about the size of an egg, anything else is a wounded and lost coyote.
 
Song, perhaps I was not clear. I mean a body shot on the yote, not a leg/forearm on the animal. Humans dont have a wild will to live. We're not as tuff as critters.
 
Chile, you're not the only one.

Quarterpounder, I think, and I emphasize the "I", that you are writing checks that you can't always cash. A coyote is a hard target to hit, especially at that range. He could move 10' one way or the other and if you're shooting a .223 that's a miss. I had a guy one time too tell me that he could shoot coyotes all day long at 700yds thru the eyes on the run, but you know what? I never say that guy coyote hunting. I had to step away and leave before the laughter set in. At least you lightened the mood on this thread with your bragging.
 
I have recovered a coyote that I shot in the leg at 300 yards(thought he was closer)...that was a killing shot...hit the artery...took a little traking (about 1 mile-figured I owed it to the animal to make sure he didn't suffer too much), but finally found him dead. Wish I would have made a better shot, but...it happens sometimes.

Gonzaga-I think anything would be hard to hit if it moved 10 foot. 10'=10 foot 10"=10 inches...Just messin with ya.
 
I've used a .223 for quite afew yrs on coyote. IMO, unless a shooter, makes a perfect shot on a long one. Then there's a good chance of having a runner. I've had some run quite far, with a less than perfect shot.

My farthest estimated "1-shot" kill was around 300yrds. Broadside 55gr Win Silver Ballistic Tip. For some coyotes, especially the large ones. The .223 lacks some thump past 200yrds, let alone 300 or more.

Not to mention, drop & wind drift, way out there.
 
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