Do shorter barrels prefer a shorter bullet?

V

varminter .223

Well-known member
I have a couple 26" barreled Savage 12 fv's that really like 60 Nosler bt's over 34 grains of Varget. I have been working with a model 10 Predator of the same caliber that I picked up on a good deal last week. It has a rouuuuuggghhhh bore apparently and averages about .750" 3 shot groups [occasionally 5 shot]with the same load. It copper fouls something fierce and tends to string to the left up to an inch and once out to 1.5". [stock contact with bags to far forward] I tried it on the 12fv stock which fits beautifully with the slightly bigger barrel channel. It shot a .5" group and then back to .750" again.I put the original stock back on and then the first 3 shot group came back closer to .5" then back out to .750" at worst. I have been keeping my bags back almost to the barrel nut because I lose free float if the bags contact to far forward on the forearm. I think if I eliminate stock contact it is a sub moa rifle with good groups closer to .5" and loosers groups closer to .75" and 1" at the very worst. With all of this said I am wondering if the shorter barrel might like a 55 bt's or more powder [34 is a max load] given the speed lose in the 4" shorter barrel. I also wonder if the rough bore is just never gonna shoot better. I really like this rifle and want to use it but I really want .5 moa since I have several other rifle that will hold that. What do you guys think?
I should add that the tang area and around the sides and rear of the action appear to be free floated. I have been cleaning to bear bore about every 25 rounds hoping to burnish the tooling marks out shooting against a clean bore and it take 3 shots to get back to dirty poi. It seems loosening the stock and reseating against the lug and then tightening to 35 in lbs. seems to bring the group back together for a group or 2 as well.
 
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I just measured up all my groups and I have concluded that if I if I shoot 7 fouling shots, retorque after every ten and clean at about 25 rounds the rifle hangs around half moa. Some in the .4s and some in the .6s.............maybe I should just be happy it does that well. I am going to try 55s though.

In my neck of the woods here in Illinois, 10 rounds should cover 2 years of calling lol.
 
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That's way to much BS....for me anyway. You might call Savage and tell them. They may want to take a look at your rifle. Just guessing again, is it a 22-250? New or used when you bought it??
 
It was used.....looked like a fairly low round count rig. Yes 22-250. Most of the issues seems to be horizontal moving center to left. The 12fv stock didn't seem to help though. The other thing that I wonder is if the E-bayed v16 that I have on it is holding zero??? It wanted to make a .75" jump with one click where I just need to come up 1 to get me an inch high at 100.
 
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You have way more patients than I do......I'm thinking after the second time I had to loosen the stock and retighten, the gun would be going "BYE BYE".



Here Kitty Kitty
 
Originally Posted By: Mark204You have way more patients than I do......I'm thinking after the second time I had to loosen the stock and retighten, the gun would be going "BYE BYE".



Here Kitty Kitty

Well... Im not sure if reseating the action in the stock is really helping or if it is coincidence. I have only had the rifle since last Sat. and this is the only load I have tried thus far. I am really starting to wonder about the scope now because I have notice the groups also tend to start right and move left. Issues are all horizontal. But good Lord does she copper foul!
 
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Well we can eliminate barrel break in then...It sounds like something is making contact some where to throw off the harmonics, or for some reason the action is moving on you. JMO


Here Kitty Kitty
 
Something I found interesting is that the it shot 2" lower in the 12 fv stock......maybe a half more to the right. No barrel contact on either as long as I keep the bags back close to the barrel nut. This difference in elevation has to be in how it flexes the action. Barrel separates from stock more with the 12 fv when the rear screw is torqued. Almost no climb when it is torqued in the original stock.
 
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Quote:It has a rouuuuuggghhhh bore apparently. It copper fouls something fierce....Is this a description from an inspection with a bore scope??

In answer to the question posed in the heading, bullet weight/length will be determined by the barrel twist rate, not the barrel length Barrel length affects velocity and MPBR...

From the way you are describing the condition of the barrel bore,,,This may be one of the rare times I would suggest looking into Tubb's Barrel Finish...This consists of a series of bullets that are coated/impregnated with different grades of grit that supposedly smooths out the "Roughness" and brings the barrel to a "lapped" condition

You don't indicate how many rounds are in the history of the rifle in question...Most firearms that I've had with 'questionable' bores, I've had luck finding the least expensive military FMJ rounds and running at least 100 rounds through the barrel to burnish it..This tends to smooth out most imperfections
 
I had a similar problem with a new Ruger Predator. The barrel rubbed the stock all down the left side. I tried sanding the stock and it helped. Like yours, a couple of good shots then it started shooting crappy. Bought a Boyd's stock and had the same problem. Rubbed the stock. With the Boyd's and the plastic stock both, I would loosen the screws, re-align the barrel tighten it all back. Within a few shots, it was right back over. I ended up opening up the barrel channel even more, wrapped several layers of tape on the barrel to keep it centered and bedded it. Problem solved!! Shoots great now. Can't say its your problem and really doubt it is but you keep messing with the stock so I threw this in the hat.
 
Originally Posted By: MPFDI'd never suggest Tubb's final finish, all it will do is push your throat out further.

It did an excellent job on a 300WM Remington Sendero of mine which was very accurate…for about 20 rounds before it needed a thorough copper removal. Now I get many more shots before cleaning, no loss in accuracy with same seating depth.

But I skipped the coarsest two sets of bullets.

To the original question, a rifle will favor shorter bullets if it is not generating the RPMs necessary to stabilize them. RPMs are mainly a factor of twist rate, but if the twist length is borderline, lack of velocity from a short barrel can come into play.
 
I quite reading after you mentioned this was a generic load that works in a couple other rifles. Troubleshoot all that you can but in the end do not throw the rifle out without attempting some load development or trying another bullet. And to touch on shorter barrels not liking heavy bullets I'd say that's false. My 16" 6.5x47 likes heavy longer bullets the best. My $0.02. Good luck bud
 
Originally Posted By: MPFDI'd never suggest Tubb's final finish, all it will do is push your throat out further. ...That's why I indicated it would be one of the rare times to even mention it...As bad as he makes the condition sound and not knowing if it is a new or used firearm, I'm not sure it could be made worse..
 
He has stated in an earlier post that its a 22-250 and USED. Most people that have scoped the barrels on Savage rifles say the look like a sewer pipe. I agree also with the fact that just because one rifle shoots a load really good doesn't mean this rifle will. There is also the option to rebarrel. Savage prefits are everywhere and reasonably priced too.
 
Originally Posted By: MGYSGTI take it, the rifle is not bedded. Bed it into a stiff stock (wood or fiber) and then see.

Yeah, get a real stock and bed it. All the plastic savage stocks I have ever handled are flexible garbage.
 
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