Cedar City, Utah hunt

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Nothing in the rules said a helicopter couldn't be used.


I just don't see how that team could show up at another hunt in Utah after pulling that crap. Not cool at all.
 
Just to add a little fire to this post and discussion. A while back I heard about a Coyote hunt out of Gillete Wy. When I called the organizer and he found out I was from Utah, he said don't bother to come cause you are not welcome! When I asked him why, he said Utah hunters cheat. When asked to elaborate he said they team hunt (multiple teams combine animals) I hope that the helicopter issue is not true. Doe any one know about the cheating issue in Wyoming by Utards.
 
I haven't heard of that, I did hear that a team was invited not to come back to the Rawlins Contest due to accusations of cheating, but I don't think they were Utahns !
 
I posted the phone number for anybody that wants to call and ask about the helicopter. Two years ago I was asked if I would hunt with another friend and give our coyotes to a team that was hunting the Cedar contest. The guy asked in a joking manner and I just laughed him off, but I found out later that he night hunted in AZ which is illegal so now I assume he was serious. There are some very honorable people here in Utah, but a few spoil it for all.
 
We had a team here in Nevada that used a friends crop-dusting plane as a scouting tool on a hunt. He would fly around in the plane and radio them when he saw a dog. Same sort of deal where one team had almost a third of the total animals checked in.
 
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Nothing in the rules said a helicopter couldn't be used.



If aerial gunning is prohibited by the Utah DWR, it shouldn't have to be repeated in the rules. Most contest rules require that the contests be conducted "in accordance with all State and Federal game laws".

Otherwise, nobody would waste time calling. They'd be shooting from planes, helicopters, boats, snowmobiles, ATV's, dirt bikes, etc. A "calling" contest should just that, calling only.
 
I talked to Tom at Hurst today. He said it wasn't necessarily a "calling" contest. He said it was okay to spot or shoot from aircraft if it was legal to do so. It isn't Hurst's position to make sure the shooters and pilots have the proper permits or licenses. He knew that some kids were sitting on a bait pile out west of town and suspects teams of "family" hunting. That's where all the brothers, uncles, cousins, etc. hunt and then draw straws for who gets to claim the coyotes and prizes. His position: this is supposed to be a "fun" hunt. It only costs $40 per team to enter. They can't control what people do because people are going to cheat one way or another. That's the problem with some contests. Unethical people enter them and cheat to "win". If the winners aren't required to take and pass a lie-detector test, you're just hunting for the fun of hunting. For me, I'm going to put that $40 entry fee into my gas tank, hunt for fun and not get upset that other people have no morals.
 
I think that weasel has a good point but it's still frustrating to think that people still have to cheat. I guess all the unethical deer hunters are filtrating into our sport since they've killed all the deer.
 
I've seen cheaters in every sport I've been in, and work as well, there will always be that kind of person, unless someone changes the law !
 
FIRST OF ALL DON'T CALL ANY ONE A CHEATER UNLESS YOU HAVE ROCK SOLID PROOF!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SECOND IT IS VERY POSSIBLE TO KILL 18
COYOTE IN 2DAYS.

DOES ANY BODY KNOW THE NAMES OF THE WINNING TEAM IN CEDAR CONTEST BECAUSE THERE ARE AFEW GREAT COYOTE CALLERS FROM BEAVER ...

IT'S SAD THAT THE CONTEST PART OF COYOTE HUNTING IS BEING RUINED IN UTAH BY PEOPLE THAT THINK THE WINNERS ARE ALWAYS CHEATING. FACE IT SOME PEOPLE ARE JUST BETTER HUNTERS THAN OTHERS.
SOME PEOPLE BIG BIG MULE DEER SOME ARE GREAT BASS FISHERMAN SOME KILL MONSTER ELK AND SOME JUST KNOW HOW TO KILL ALOT OF COYOTES.
IF SOMEONE DOES THERE HOMEWORK AND IS ONTOP OF THERE GAME THE CAN WIN.

THE TEAM THAT WON RICHFEILD AND THE UTAH PREDATOR CALLERS CONTEST WAS FROM LEHI
THERE WAS A TEAM THAT WON THE KANAB HUNT THAT WAS FROM BEAVER.
IF THEY WONT THE CEDAR HUNT GOOD FOR THEM.

UNTIL THERE IS ROCK SOLID PROOF THEY CHEATED

THEN THEY JUST KNOW HOW TO KILL COYOTE BETTER THAN MOST AND THEY HAVE THE MOST IMPORTANT THING DOWN

LOCATION! LOCATION! LOCATION!!! AND LOTS OF COYOTES.....

THERE HAS BEEN PEOPLE IN UTAH THAT HAVE BEEN OUTCASTED FROM CONTEST THROUGH OUT UTAH AND WY. TO CLAIM OF CHEATING WITH ABSOLUTLY NO ROCK SOLID PROOF. ITS ALL HEAR SAY....

AND ALOT OF BAD STUFF HAS BEEN SPREAD AROUND TO OTHER CONTEST HOLDERS BECAUSE OF THESE CLAIMS AND IT HAS MAD IT HARD FOR OTHERS UTAH HUNTERS TO GET IN TO THESE CONTEST.

DON'T GET ME WRONG IF SOMEONE CHEATS AND ITS PROVEN THEN THE FACT SHOULD BE TOLD IN THE CLEAN AND CLEAREST WAY POSSIBLE.

COYOTEMASTER
 
Can anyone back up this allegation of using a helicopter? Seems to me it is nothing more than a rumor at this point. How 'bout you Weasel? Where did you get your information? Does anyone have something more than a rumor to base this on? I hate to see everyone deciding not to participate in any more contests because they believe some participants are cheating.

I am not questioning the veracity of anyone but I just can't see how anyone could justify the use a helicopter to win a calling contest where they might win a couple of hundred dollars or some other prize. If this team did use a helicopter they did it on a very windy day when most people would probably avoid flying. If they were ADC guys would they risk their jobs by using government property for personal gain?

Again, I ain't saying it ain't so... I'd just like a little more information about the particulars of this allegation. Did anyone actually see a helicopter flying that day. Anyone have first hand information to offer?

Thanks to Weasel for making everyone aware of this even though it is disappointing news. Maybe all contests in the future will have to be by invitation only. I'd like to believe that the cheaters are very few but I guess it only takes one or two to ruin the hunt for others.
 
This really ticks me off, and I wasn't even there to compete.

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The rules were clearly written. All animals had to be called. No drive-bys, traps, road kill, etc. All laws had to be followed.



It doesn't matter if the rules didn't say anything about using helicopters. It didn't say the team couldn't go to a coyote farm and slaughter 18 coyotes either. Cheating is cheating! Everything shouldn't have to be spelled out. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
I dont think any one here is saying it is not possible to kill 18 coyotes in 2 days in utah, i think the point everyone is trying to get across is, IF they were using a helicopter is that fair to those who were calling coyotes. Beings this was a coyote CALLING contest.
if the rules were not stated that way then i guess it would not be technicaly cheating, but they would definately have the advantage, i put on a couple contests a year, but i would have never thought in my mind that somebody would use a helicopter ( it is not legal in utah) to kill coyotes.
so there fore if indeed they did use a chopper, if the rules stated to abide by all state laws would that not be cheating.


Coyotemaster5, You are right there a better coyote hunters-callers than others.Like the guys who took first place this year during our contest, they came in with twelve coyotes, and the next team came in with five (which happened to be my team) quite a difference in coyotes, but we did not discount them for a minute, because we could have been there with then if we could have got all the coyotes we called in. but it is only fair to compete with the ones that are out calling. If they did shoot them from choppers that is not any competition for a very experienced caller that knows all the locations.

I dont let all the riff raff ge to me, anyone who would like to participate in my hunts are welcome, i dont want to get to far in to it to get lie detector tests, if people cant be honest then that is up to them, we are based off of trust, and just getting out there and having a good time!
 
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if the rules were not stated that way then i guess it would not be technicaly cheating, but they would definately have the advantage, i put on a couple contests a year, but i would have never thought in my mind that somebody would use a helicopter ( it is not legal in utah) to kill coyotes.
so there fore if indeed they did use a chopper, if the rules stated to abide by all state laws would that not be cheating.




But that still dosent make it right though. They better hope that they had a permit to be shooting out of an aircraft though. I could see a pilot getting grounded and his license jerked out from under him if there wasn't one.
 
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I talked to Tom at Hurst today. He said it wasn't necessarily a "calling" contest

.
If it is not a calling contest then don't label it a calling contest call it a coyote hunt.

I believe in the rules for the World hunt it states no use of aircraft of any type for any reason. I will look into this further in needed i think i can dig up the rule shet for past world hunt to confirm this.

If it is a calling contest I feel the rule should state the above on aircraft and also no snowmobiles!

Was this contest in cedar limited to Utah only or could they hunt in AZ,NV or were ever they wanted.

Because if they hunted NV, 18 coyotes is very possible in 2 days of hunt in 2004 I belive in the world 26 coyotes took first place and they killed 17 in the first day by this team.

Majority of coyote hunters/callers in Utah kill 1-2 coyote in utah a day some can kilL 3-5 a day a select few can pick up 5-8 a day and I know personally of a few team that have killed over ten in a day.
And how do teams kill this many coyotes in a day in Utah.
and consitantly do it!!

THEY DAM GOOD COYOTES HUNTERS THEY HAVE GREAT COUNTRY AND KNOW HOW TO FIND ALOT OF COYOTES AND THEY KNOW HOW TO CALL AND WHEN AND WERE TO CALL FROM AND THEY ARE DAMM GOOD SHOTS.

If you want to win a contest you have to call in alot of coyotes and kill 80% of better of what is called up.

I was once told by a old coyote hunter..........

They best coyote caller can't call coyotes in country were there are very little or no coyotes.
And the Worst coyote caller can call lots of coyotes in country were this is abunduce of coyotes.

Until there is rock solid proof of cheating or there has been some use of aircraft this guys are the winners fair and square.
COYOTEMASTER
 
Coyotemasters-Why dont you call the number Weasel gave and ask. They are the ones who ran the contest. Then you can come back here and tell us what they told you.

From what I read here he agreed it did happen. They even admitted in the past of people cheating and still gave them first.

Pick up the phone and let us know what you find out.
 
The contest was not limited to the state of Utah. You had to be there on Thursday night at 8:00 pm to get your sticks. You could travel anywhere you wanted as long as you had the proper licence to kill coyotes in other states. You had to check in on Saturday at 7:00 pm. I know it was windy on Friday in Utah, but it might not of been windy in Nevada or Arizona. I would bet that the top five teams did not hunt Utah any of the two days of the contest.

I have to agree with you 100% COYOTEMASTER5 When you said, “Majority of coyote hunters/callers in Utah kill 1-2 coyote in utah a day some can kilL 3-5 a day a select few can pick up 5-8 a day and I know personally of a few team that have killed over ten in a day.
And how do teams kill this many coyotes in a day in Utah.
and constantly do it!!

THEY DAM GOOD COYOTES HUNTERS THEY HAVE GREAT COUNTRY AND KNOW HOW TO FIND ALOT OF COYOTES AND THEY KNOW HOW TO CALL AND WHEN AND WERE TO CALL FROM AND THEY ARE DAMM GOOD SHOTS.
 
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