Bray Ranch Redvale Colorado

mine is still up. I snuck mine in under the photos on their wall. Click on the link and scroll down I have 2 comments on the page. Both are still up.
 
After reading this story it reminded me of a situation I ran across opening week of dove season here in Texas. We have a farm that has been in the family for several generations and on part of it that we have in crops each year we have always had an open door policy in allowing the public to come in and dove hunt. This year I drove down to check on a few head we had in an adjoining pasture and I run across two guys that have climbed over the fence and into the cow pasture. They are hunting right next to our barn, they dropped trash around and both of them have their 8-10 year old sons with them. I nicely asked the guys to please move out of the cow pasture and over to the crop land. I no sooner get the words out than one of them starts in on how he is just trying to let his boy shoot his firt dove and all. My point in telling this story is just because you have your kid with you does not mean you can hunt anywhere you want or disregard the rights of a land owner. You should teach your child the right way to hunt and ask permission to hunt on some ones land. I don't know all the details to this story as it is being told mostly second hand, but it is not all adding up to me. I can clearly see in this cell phone video that the man in the truck is not 10-15 feet from an alfalfa field and he is on a dirt road that runs beside the field. Could it be that the hunter and his son have mistakenly come onto private property? If he is on public land why is he hunting right beside someones farm? I never saw the hunter cross a fence to get to the alfalfa field, could it be he had already crossed a fence onto private property? The land he is walking across looks pretty clean of brush and trees for BLM land, looks more like land someone has cleared and put some work into.
The truth is I don't know and niether does anyone else, but I think I would want to find out a few more facts before I trash someone who is trying to make a living off the land.
 
Originally Posted By: texyoteAfter reading this story it reminded me of a situation I ran across opening week of dove season here in Texas. We have a farm that has been in the family for several generations and on part of it that we have in crops each year we have always had an open door policy in allowing the public to come in and dove hunt. This year I drove down to check on a few head we had in an adjoining pasture and I run across two guys that have climbed over the fence and into the cow pasture. They are hunting right next to our barn, they dropped trash around and both of them have their 8-10 year old sons with them. I nicely asked the guys to please move out of the cow pasture and over to the crop land. I no sooner get the words out than one of them starts in on how he is just trying to let his boy shoot his firt dove and all. My point in telling this story is just because you have your kid with you does not mean you can hunt anywhere you want or disregard the rights of a land owner. You should teach your child the right way to hunt and ask permission to hunt on some ones land. I don't know all the details to this story as it is being told mostly second hand, but it is not all adding up to me. I can clearly see in this cell phone video that the man in the truck is not 10-15 feet from an alfalfa field and he is on a dirt road that runs beside the field. Could it be that the hunter and his son have mistakenly come onto private property? If he is on public land why is he hunting right beside someones farm? I never saw the hunter cross a fence to get to the alfalfa field, could it be he had already crossed a fence onto private property? The land he is walking across looks pretty clean of brush and trees for BLM land, looks more like land someone has cleared and put some work into.
The truth is I don't know and niether does anyone else, but I think I would want to find out a few more facts before I trash someone who is trying to make a living off the land.

The hunt was on public land. The rancher even admits that. The rancher in question has a habit of trying to deceive the public into believing he owns the property. Hence the "you parked on my fence line." He also intentionally herded an animal off public land onto private (a crime).
point out the "why are you hunting next to private?" Because it is public land and I can hunt on public and should be allowed to hunt on public land with out someone else harassing/herding or intentionally interfering with my hunt. As long as I am not breaking the law why does it matter what property I hunt next to?

The land looks like most BLM. Some sage some trees etc. Simply put it does happen and happens way to much around here.. I have no problem with a guy making an honest living off the land. In this case he was breaking the law, and doing things based only profit. Would you ruin a public land hunters opportunity to make money? Better yet a youth hunter?

While you may want more facts it seemed pretty clear from the situation and the video that all the guy wanted was to keep that buck for one of his paying hunters.
 
Originally Posted By: texyoteAfter reading this story it reminded me of a situation I ran across opening week of dove season here in Texas. We have a farm that has been in the family for several generations and on part of it that we have in crops each year we have always had an open door policy in allowing the public to come in and dove hunt. This year I drove down to check on a few head we had in an adjoining pasture and I run across two guys that have climbed over the fence and into the cow pasture. They are hunting right next to our barn, they dropped trash around and both of them have their 8-10 year old sons with them. I nicely asked the guys to please move out of the cow pasture and over to the crop land. I no sooner get the words out than one of them starts in on how he is just trying to let his boy shoot his firt dove and all. My point in telling this story is just because you have your kid with you does not mean you can hunt anywhere you want or disregard the rights of a land owner. You should teach your child the right way to hunt and ask permission to hunt on some ones land. I don't know all the details to this story as it is being told mostly second hand, but it is not all adding up to me. I can clearly see in this cell phone video that the man in the truck is not 10-15 feet from an alfalfa field and he is on a dirt road that runs beside the field. Could it be that the hunter and his son have mistakenly come onto private property? If he is on public land why is he hunting right beside someones farm? I never saw the hunter cross a fence to get to the alfalfa field, could it be he had already crossed a fence onto private property? The land he is walking across looks pretty clean of brush and trees for BLM land, looks more like land someone has cleared and put some work into.
The truth is I don't know and niether does anyone else, but I think I would want to find out a few more facts before I trash someone who is trying to make a living off the land.

Your first and so far your only post is sticking up for something maybe you need more facts on? Maybe you have some hidden interest with Bray Ranch?
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I started this thread after I got the info 2nd hand from a co-worker who is King81423 He joined Predatormasters and posted the video and links on Youtube etc... He knew he was on public land. He grew up in that area of Colorado and owns a small piece of property nearby. He had maps, Googleearth on his phone, GPS etc.... Mr. Bray drove up between King81423's son and the Buck. herded the animal back onto his land and then sat there with his motor running. It is very plain what Mr. Bray did. It is a crime in all 50 States. "Hunter Harassment" Herding Game animals is also illegal. It is just a shame that Mr. Bray ruined a kids first Buck hunt. Nobody is claiming Bray knew it was a youth hunter but it was. Even if it would have been King81423 or any other adult hunting it would be wrong and illegal to interfere with someone legally hunting on BLM land. That is what Mr. Bray did. There really is no disputing that.
 
Originally Posted By: texyoteAfter reading this story it reminded me of a situation I ran across opening week of dove season here in Texas. We have a farm that has been in the family for several generations and on part of it that we have in crops each year we have always had an open door policy in allowing the public to come in and dove hunt. This year I drove down to check on a few head we had in an adjoining pasture and I run across two guys that have climbed over the fence and into the cow pasture. They are hunting right next to our barn, they dropped trash around and both of them have their 8-10 year old sons with them. I nicely asked the guys to please move out of the cow pasture and over to the crop land. I no sooner get the words out than one of them starts in on how he is just trying to let his boy shoot his firt dove and all. My point in telling this story is just because you have your kid with you does not mean you can hunt anywhere you want or disregard the rights of a land owner. You should teach your child the right way to hunt and ask permission to hunt on some ones land. I don't know all the details to this story as it is being told mostly second hand, but it is not all adding up to me. I can clearly see in this cell phone video that the man in the truck is not 10-15 feet from an alfalfa field and he is on a dirt road that runs beside the field. Could it be that the hunter and his son have mistakenly come onto private property? If he is on public land why is he hunting right beside someones farm? I never saw the hunter cross a fence to get to the alfalfa field, could it be he had already crossed a fence onto private property? The land he is walking across looks pretty clean of brush and trees for BLM land, looks more like land someone has cleared and put some work into.
The truth is I don't know and niether does anyone else, but I think I would want to find out a few more facts before I trash someone who is trying to make a living off the land.

if that is the case, then why do they refuse to "tell their side of the story"??? I have asked several times on their facebook page, only to have the posts removed... HMMMMM

If it looks like Sheit and smells like Sheit, it probably is Sheit, I don't need to taste it to verify...
 
This is utter BS. Bray needs to be held accountable for these actions or it will continue. Sometimes I wonder if these high dollar ranches have the DOW in there back pocket. I have run into similiar situations with a ranch that operates where I hunt. There initials are HLR. They outfit in the Bookcliffs. Every year we have run ins with them. this year, my buddies daughter shot a her first elk on BLM that bordered there property. My buddy had one of those new GPS's that has all of Colorados BLM loaded on it. We new exactly where we were. One of the ranch hands questioned us where she shot the cow and hinted that we were on there property. They were upset because they had paid hunters in that area. It wasnt 10 minutes after we talked to them, the game warden pulled up and questioned us. He as well was in doubt if we were on private or public. The cow was shot a good 300 yards from the boundary. The game warden said,"I doent trust those GPS's, they arent accurate." So we took him to the gut pile and he GPS'ed it? Which didnt make sense.. We never heard another word about it.
 
Big money has a way of ruining things and hunting is no exception. Between all the marketing of BS hunting products and big time guide services, the sport and skill of hunting has strayed very far from its roots. Those of us not interested in the "easy" purchased trophy suffer from lack of hunting land as more and more private land gets turned into high dollar leases and hunting clubs. The end result is situations similar to this. Imagine being the client who just paid "x" amount of dollars to hunt this property while someone harvests a nice animal a couple hundred yards away on public land. I would feel like a schmuck...LOL.
 
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Originally Posted By: Dogpopper

Your first and so far your only post is sticking up for something maybe you need more facts on? Maybe you have some hidden interest with Bray Ranch?
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Dogpopper, but there screen name is texyote from texas. Which means if he had a special interest he would be lying about where he is from since we are talking about Colorado. I would hate to think that someone who breaks game laws and robs children of their first buck would also be a liar.
 
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Originally Posted By: letsgohuntnThis is utter BS. Bray needs to be held accountable for these actions or it will continue. Sometimes I wonder if these high dollar ranches have the DOW in there back pocket. I have run into similiar situations with a ranch that operates where I hunt. There initials are HLR. They outfit in the Bookcliffs. Every year we have run ins with them. this year, my buddies daughter shot a her first elk on BLM that bordered there property. My buddy had one of those new GPS's that has all of Colorados BLM loaded on it. We new exactly where we were. One of the ranch hands questioned us where she shot the cow and hinted that we were on there property. They were upset because they had paid hunters in that area. It wasnt 10 minutes after we talked to them, the game warden pulled up and questioned us. He as well was in doubt if we were on private or public. The cow was shot a good 300 yards from the boundary. The game warden said,"I doent trust those GPS's, they arent accurate." So we took him to the gut pile and he GPS'ed it? Which didnt make sense.. We never heard another word about it.

HYMMM... Could it be High Lonesome? I know the ranch, but have never had anything negative with them. I do know they are Big Time and the more money involved the worse they are. To a certain extent the big ranches/outfitters do have the local DOW in their pocket so to speak. Simply because they have the money and influence to make life uncomfortable. Not that they do anything illegal, but they have influence. Hence when a big outfitter or guide calls in something, things get checked. In part because they have influence. You or I call in, Mr. Noname and it is not as big of a deal.

Just like everything there are lots of good honest outfitters, but it only takes a couple to ruin the rep of all.
 
Wow, what a response. I guess I must have touched a nerve with some of the posters. I am from Texas and I don't have a dog in this fight, just simply making a few observations from a land owner's point of view. I have hunted elk and deer in New Mexico, Colorado and Wyoming over the past 20 years and always with a guide or outfitter. I guess I have been lucky, but all my experiences have been good ones. Other than one hunt in New Mexico when I was about 13 or 14 all my hunts have been on public land so I certainly appreciate the rights we enjoy to hunt public land. The story that is being told here just does not make COMPLETE since to me. I don't think that anyone is intentionaly lying but I do know how facts can slip through the cracks, especially in the trial by internet we all so vigorouly participate in these days. Instead of calling me out as an internet spy planted by the evil empire run by the Colorado land barrons maybe you would like to try and answer a few simple questions that might show me the light.
1. Alfalfa field right next to the rancher's truck? Does the BLM raise alfalfa these days?
2. If in fact the rancher is driving on the dirt road next to the alfalfa field, then how could he be herding a deer on to his place and off public land if he is between where the deer/hunters where and his land?
3. If you are on public land and within 100 or so yards of private land how do you know? As I said I have hunted several western states and don't recall seeing alot of markers for public/private land.

All these issues are what prevent alot of us from trying to hunt the areas we love on our own. If I could navigate all this private/public land stuff I would love to try a DIY type hunt one day, but for now I guess I will have to stick with outfitters.
 
texyote, It doesnt look like to me in the video that the field is right next to the truck, it looks like to me that there is a chunk of sage flat between the truck and the field, which is what is clearly stated in the video. Apparently, the deer was in that sage flat between the truck and the field. In colorado, it is up to the hunter to know the boundaries. Landowners do not have to their land posted, which can really create problems such as this, because land owners will claim land that isnt theirs and hunters are lead to beleive that is the case. What gets me about this video is when Mr. King asked Bray "Doesnt your land start where the sage ends?" or something to that nature, and it is clear that Bray says something like "I dont know exactly where it starts." Being a landowner, you would think he would know exactly where his boundary starts.
If I was Bray and I knew for a fact that King was in the wrong and he was spreading this on the internet and falsely accusing me, I would be all over him like flies on sheat. I think we all would. But, this is not the case. Instead, it is being swept under the rug. Which to me, really proves on where the guilt really lies.
 
letshohuntn, I think your reply speaks to the problem I have with this whole scenario. The landowner does not know exactly where his land ends nor does the hunter know exactly where BLM land ends. How could he? If the hunter shot at a deer that was atleast a hundred yards away and the deer was between the ag field and where the rancher's truck was coming through how could the hunter know precisely if the deer was standing on BLM land or private land. Just because it was in sage brush? Did he run over and hold the GPS next to the deer? My point being that it is a very fine line for both parties and looks like both should have used better judgement. The father evidently knew of past problems with the rancher yet chose to put his son in an akward situation at best. I don't see that the rancher got upset or over reacted to the hunter and probably showed some restraint. Sounds like the whole thing has been blown out of proportion by the internet mob. With all this evidence a trained LEO could not get a game warden or local official to do anything? Does not pass the smell test for me. I hope the young hunter learns the right lessons from all of this and enjoys many years of the sport we love.
 
texyote, with all do respect, did you even listen to the video closely? Bray made the comment that it was his land. Ward came back and said no, this is BLM land, the pasture is your land and Bray said yes. Ward also stated that the deer was moving more into BLM land. You are right, we do not know the 2 individuals first hand, but that video, to me, clearly states who was in the wrong. One minute its your land, the next, its not.
 
letgohuntn,

I have listened to the video many times and just went over it twice more. Bray did say it was his land, but no where on the video did he say he was on BLM land. Ward said that is your pasture and Bray agreed with him, but I don't believe he was agreeing to the fact he was on BLM land. He later agreed that the man parked on the road next to BLM land but he did not say the buck he was shooting at was on BLM. I did notice that ward did not hesitate to mention he was a deputy sherriff and he knew the game warden, yet nothing became of that? He stands right there and says he is a a peace officer and that the rancher is commiting a crime, why dosn't he just arrest him or call the law from the phone he is holding? Again, just alot of things in this don't make since for either parties. The part about the deer coming more on to BLM land, you lost me on that one? Either it was on BLM or private, and again at that distance with no trees, fence or boundary line how can anyone tell? Sounds like the hunter had it in for the rancher way before this incident and the rancher may very well have it coming. I had a land owner try and run me and the family off a beach here on a local lake one time. Since it was a corps of engineer lake I knew he did not own the beach, so when he finished yelling and threating us I called the Sheriff who came out and told if he did it again he was going to jail. I could have pushed it further but the point was made. Why doesn't an LEO do the same in this case?
 
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