BL C2 vs H335 vs. 748 in .223

NM_HighPlains

NM_HighPlains

New member
I'm loading 50 gr V-max for my Savage PH. My normal BL-C2 powder (have a 1/2" load with it and 52 gr HP) produces 1" groups, even after changing powder charges and seating depths. 1" is acceptable (and I got under 2" at 200 yards), I'm just looking for a little better.

Have any of you gotten significant improvements with H335 or 748 over BL-C2?

Or is this just something I'm going to have try and see?
 
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I'm loading 50 gr V-max for my Savage PH. My normal BL-C2 powder (have a 1/2" load with it and 52 gr HP) produces 1" groups, even after changing powder charges and seating depths. 1" is acceptable (and I got under 2" at 200 yards), I'm just looking for a little better.

Have any of you gotten significant improvements with H335 or 748 over BL-C2?

Or is this just something I'm going to have try and see?



W748 is way too slow for the 223 and 50 gr bullets - some guys use it and I'm sure this question will get a bunch of testimonials, but a case full will be 200+ fps slower than the other two powders.

Both H335 and BLc2 are great powders, with H335 being a teeny bit faster than BLc2.


.
 
H335 will give you more velocity.......I like it better than blc2 for 50 gr'ers....

Try Ramshot TAC......... I like it best of all
velocity.... accuracy..... burns cleaner than any of these others at least for me.....

R
 
While I'm a W-748 fan, I too have found great results with the Ramshot powder in my 40gr V-Max loads. The only exception is that I've only tried the X-Terminator, since it works well in my .204s as well.
40grV-MaxLoads.jpg


My next powder purchase will be the Ramshot TAC, just to give it a try, since it does seem to burn cleaner and it meters really well. I intend to use it with some 50 & 60gr V-Max and expect to see similar results in a faster barrel twist.

I'm using the X-Terminator in my slow twist (1/14) AR and I don't try for speed as much as accuracy... If I can achieve the same accuracy with higher speed, great, but I won't sacrifice the consistent accuracy..

The next plus for the Ramshot powder is that it requires about a full grain less powder to produce the same accuracy, so it goes a little farther and reduces my cost factor.
 
I'm off to town. Will cruise by the gun shop and pick up some H335 and TAC (if they have it).

Turtle- that's what I'm talkin' 'bout! Good groups!
 
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I'm off to town. Will cruise by the gun shop and pick up some H335 and TAC (if they have it).




I LOVE H335 in the .223

But a word of caution.....H335 is very temperature sensitive. If you develop loads in cool weather, they could very well show pressure signs in hot temps. I loaded some PD loads (anout 500 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif) and developed the load in 45-50 degree temps. When I used the loads on the PDs in 105 degree temps, there were definitely pressure signs that didn't exist in the cooler temps.

I'm not saying not to use H335. I still use it from time to time. Just be cautious if you develop loads near the MAX published load.

Just some info for you to think about. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
I found that H335 was more accurate than W748 in my last .223 work up with 50g bullets. 26.5 grains in my Rem. 700 shoots very tight groups. This may just be my rifle, yours might be the exact opposite. Hidalgo is right. H335 can be pretty temperature sensative. My 26.5 grain load is a borderline hot load when the mercury rises. I shot prairie dogs with it in late May and when it would get hot in the afternoon, the bolt would get a little "sticky". I never saw any other pressure signs but again, that's my rifle. If I were you, I'd try the H335 and work up to near max then watch it when it warms up. There's alot of conflicting max data on H335 for some reason. I've seen published max as high as 28.5g for 50g bullets, but you see alot of "accurate load" data right around 26.5. H335 meters like water so it's easy to load too. Good luck!
 
pssssst...... here is the dirty little secret that the powder companies aren't telling you, THEY ARE THE SAME POWDER!!!!! any differences in burn rates are normal differences in powders from lot to lot. as for 748 being too slow for a 223, actually with a 50grn bullet its one of the top speed load
 
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pssssst...... here is the dirty little secret that the powder companies aren't telling you, THEY ARE THE SAME POWDER!!!!! any differences in burn rates are normal differences in powders from lot to lot. as for 748 being too slow for a 223, actually with a 50grn bullet its one of the top speed load




Sorry, but none of that is true.


.
 
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pssssst...... here is the dirty little secret that the powder companies aren't telling you, THEY ARE THE SAME POWDER!!!!! any differences in burn rates are normal differences in powders from lot to lot. as for 748 being too slow for a 223, actually with a 50grn bullet its one of the top speed load



You are incorrect. I have pix from my 200x microscope that prove that wrong.

Repeating rumors like that could get someone hurt.
 
These loads will be almost exclusively for coyotes in the fall/winter. I have 800 rounds of 55 gr SP that I'll use for p-dogs.

My gun shop didn't have any TAC, so I went ahead and got some W748. My coyote shooting is nearly always under 200 yards and I'm after accuracy rather than velocity. If I don't like the 748, it'll show up in my .22-250 or .243. I'm sure it'll get used somewhere.

I skipped the H335 for now, but I might go ahead and pick up a lb next time I'm in town, just to have on hand. Never hurts to have extra powder does it now?

And like I said up above, 1" groups with the BL-C2 is acceptable for coyote sized game. I'd just like to tease it down a little more for the sake of having done so.
 
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These loads will be almost exclusively for coyotes in the fall/winter. I have 800 rounds of 55 gr SP that I'll use for p-dogs.

My gun shop didn't have any TAC, so I went ahead and got some W748. My coyote shooting is nearly always under 200 yards and I'm after accuracy rather than velocity. If I don't like the 748, it'll show up in my .22-250 or .243. I'm sure it'll get used somewhere.

I skipped the H335 for now, but I might go ahead and pick up a lb next time I'm in town, just to have on hand. Never hurts to have extra powder does it now?

And like I said up above, 1" groups with the BL-C2 is acceptable for coyote sized game. I'd just like to tease it down a little more for the sake of having done so.



Me thinks you will be more than happy with 748 in your .223 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

Many of these moutain yotes here have gone down to 50,52 and 55 grain pills pushed by 748 outta 14.5, 16 and 20 inch tubes- first I have ever heard of it being "way to slow" a powder for .223??? Guess Ill keep on killin with it anyway /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
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Me thinks you will be more than happy with 748 in your .223 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif




Two things:

1) several years ago, I bought a Rem FVSS in .223 and I bought 1000 52 gr HP bullets in bulk when I bought the gun. Guess what? They didn't shoot very good from it- 1 1/2" loose groups at 100 yards! Awful for a gun of that sort. So, I had my gun shop put together a powder sample for me with 10 different powders, enough of each to load 10 rounds. Of those, H335, BL-C2, and W748 produced sub MOA groups. I went with BL-C2 because it produced the best 3-shot groups and because the recoil was better. But 748 was right there.

Funny thing about that is that I had 150 of those bullets left when I sold the gun. Turns out that all three of my Savage .223's LOVE that bullet in front of BL-C2. All three will do 1/2" groups. And of course I now have a bulk tub of 55 gr SP that the Rem liked but which none of the Savages particularly cares for (1" groups). But, that's okay- 100 rounds of the 52 gr HP will last me on coyotes until I can find a good load for the V-max's and the 55 gr SP are acceptable until I get 'em all shot up.

2) The owner of the shop, whom I've dealt with for about 30 years, is currently shooting 50 gr V-max pushed by (drumroll....) W748. His favorite load, he said.

So, I got some. Will try it tomorrow, weather permitting.
 
I wore out one 223 varmint rifle, shooting 50 gr. SX's, over 28.3 gr. of W-748. Velocity, while the barrel was in good shape, was 3450 fps, with a 24" barrel. Only complaint I ever had with it, was that it fills the case very full. I can't load these on the Dillon 1050, as it spills too much powder. This year, I've been using Accurate 2015, and it is working very well. One test string I shot went 3707 fps with 50 gr. V-Max bullets, tiny group, and no apparent pressure, but thinking about temperatures in the dog town, I backed it down to 3500.
 
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pssssst...... here is the dirty little secret that the powder companies aren't telling you, THEY ARE THE SAME POWDER!!!!! any differences in burn rates are normal differences in powders from lot to lot. as for 748 being too slow for a 223, actually with a 50grn bullet its one of the top speed load




Sorry, but none of that is true.


.



nope not wrong, same powder

here is a quote by john barsness, who knows more about reloading than most of us ever will.

t doesn't matter what you call it. H335, W748, BLC-2, etc. are all of basically the same powder. They will differ in burning rate slightly, and only because of when they were made, and which can the powder company decides to pur them into, after doing some pressure tests. If anybody would test various lots of other powders, they would find similar differences in burning rate. This is because there is no way to produce exactly the same powder every time, mostly due to variations in atmospheric moisture. The diffferences can be compensated for somewhat by blending different lots, but in reality there isn't all that much difference. If you want to believe that 748 is a very different powder than H335, feel free. But it ain't. The difference is just in various lots of the same powder. They just pour it into different cans.

here is a link to the thread over on 24hr

link to 24hr thread on 748,h335 and BLc 2, JB posts as mule deer
 
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pssssst...... here is the dirty little secret that the powder companies aren't telling you, THEY ARE THE SAME POWDER!!!!! any differences in burn rates are normal differences in powders from lot to lot. as for 748 being too slow for a 223, actually with a 50grn bullet its one of the top speed load




Sorry, but none of that is true.
.


nope not wrong, same powder




Well, if that's the case, then why do ALL SIX of my reloading manuals give different specifications for all three powders?

Whoever that guy is, he might know something (and he might NOT), but I've got six opinions that say otherwise. I'll trust my manuals. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif (and CatShooter, of course /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif)
 
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