Bird Dog Questions
- Thread starter Smokin250
- Start date
GreifShorthairs
New member
Smokin250 - If anyone tells you that their breed of pointer or flusher (excluding Chessies) can take the icy water just as well as a Lab they are not being truthful to you or themselves. Labs are thee water dog for a reason. I am 100% a very devoted fan of the German Shorthaired Pointer they are truly an amazing breed but if waterfowl is your main love do yourself a favor and get a Lab. You will not regret the decision. But if your main love is upland with some duck hunting thrown in before the weather gets frigid then the Shorthaired should be seriously considered.
In the thread "would like to see some birddog pix" I have posted some pictures of different pups we have raised. Two of the pups are shown at 9 months of age pointing and retrieving. We have retired recently from raising puppies and the thing I will miss the most is the calls from guys with their young dogs telling about how well they are doing.
When you figure out which breed to go with make sure you do your research and pick the litter not the pup. Get a pup with good breeding, Buying the pup will be the cheapest part of owning a dog you will ever have.
In the thread "would like to see some birddog pix" I have posted some pictures of different pups we have raised. Two of the pups are shown at 9 months of age pointing and retrieving. We have retired recently from raising puppies and the thing I will miss the most is the calls from guys with their young dogs telling about how well they are doing.
When you figure out which breed to go with make sure you do your research and pick the litter not the pup. Get a pup with good breeding, Buying the pup will be the cheapest part of owning a dog you will ever have.
A few thoughts on your choice. Get out and see some dogs in action. There are AKC Retriever, Spaniel and Pointer hunt test in most parts of the country and people are welcome to come and observe. It's a good way to see the dogs in action and talk to handlers and breeders.
Another dog to think about is the American Water Spaniel. They were bred for market hunting (ducks, prairie chicken and grouse) in the midwest at the turn of the century. They are a compact dog, looks like a choclate springer with a perm and a long tail. Bred for cold water, an accomplished retriever and work the uplands like a Whelsh Springer ( a little slower than a field bred English Springer about like a lab), shed very little and are great companions.
I also have a great fondness for the GWP.
The AWS is a great waterfowl/upland dog that will work out well in an apartment. The GWP is an upland/waterfowl dog and needs room to strech his legs. Everything the AWS is the Springer is also with the emphisis on upland. Springers are exceptional retrievers, in England they are used as non-slip retrievers at driven hunts as are Labs.
AWS
Another dog to think about is the American Water Spaniel. They were bred for market hunting (ducks, prairie chicken and grouse) in the midwest at the turn of the century. They are a compact dog, looks like a choclate springer with a perm and a long tail. Bred for cold water, an accomplished retriever and work the uplands like a Whelsh Springer ( a little slower than a field bred English Springer about like a lab), shed very little and are great companions.
I also have a great fondness for the GWP.
The AWS is a great waterfowl/upland dog that will work out well in an apartment. The GWP is an upland/waterfowl dog and needs room to strech his legs. Everything the AWS is the Springer is also with the emphisis on upland. Springers are exceptional retrievers, in England they are used as non-slip retrievers at driven hunts as are Labs.
AWS
German Short Haired Pointers are GREAT all around dogs.
Not many dogs hunt Quail and Pheasant as well as a GSP.
My GSP hunts Dove, Quail, Chukar and Pheasant and she is fantastic!
They can and do hunt Waterfowl but there are better breeds if the water is very cold. GSP are thin with not a lot of bady fat to keep them warm.
A Lab, Newfoundland (sp?) and Chesapeak Bay Retriever are all good choices for cold water and they can often do pretty well with Quail and Pheasant also.
I am not a big Duck hunter and I live in CA where it is never really all that cold at least where I live. So my choice is and would be a German Short Haired Pointer or A German Wire Haired Pointer.
My neighbor down the street has a couple French Pointers he is going to breed. They look just like a German Short Hair and are good hunters.
Not many dogs hunt Quail and Pheasant as well as a GSP.
My GSP hunts Dove, Quail, Chukar and Pheasant and she is fantastic!
They can and do hunt Waterfowl but there are better breeds if the water is very cold. GSP are thin with not a lot of bady fat to keep them warm.
A Lab, Newfoundland (sp?) and Chesapeak Bay Retriever are all good choices for cold water and they can often do pretty well with Quail and Pheasant also.
I am not a big Duck hunter and I live in CA where it is never really all that cold at least where I live. So my choice is and would be a German Short Haired Pointer or A German Wire Haired Pointer.
My neighbor down the street has a couple French Pointers he is going to breed. They look just like a German Short Hair and are good hunters.
Have you considered an Airedale? I'm not sure how it might work for you, but I'm thinking that it might work for some. Below is a picture of my Airedale at not quite 5months old. I've read that some of them make pretty good pheasant dogs, along with the other things they can do. Would be like other breeds would want to get a dog from the right strain, breeder. Yet to see what my Airedale can and can't do, but he took to the water retrieving natural.
Ken
Ken
Smokin250
New member
Thanks guys for your input. I have looked at the thread "would like to see bird dog pix" its a great thread and i have read through it several times.
Something else to consider. You guys keep saying that a GSH will be awesome for upland and for minimal waterfowl. And i have heard this before. Reason being that they can't handle the cold weather like a lab. Now i just got back from Iowa a week ago Pheasant hunting, and it was COLD the entire 3 days we were there. Rained the first day and snowed the next two days. The dogs pretty pretty much soaked every day. NOW, would a GSH be able to handle that?? I mean the lab that was with us, was playing through the slushy marsh's and Miloh (excuse spelling) like a champ. Would a GSH be able to do the same??
And these hunting events you spoke about AWS, where would i be able to get info on these? I think thats a great idea to see if the dogs hunting style fits mine.
Something else to consider. You guys keep saying that a GSH will be awesome for upland and for minimal waterfowl. And i have heard this before. Reason being that they can't handle the cold weather like a lab. Now i just got back from Iowa a week ago Pheasant hunting, and it was COLD the entire 3 days we were there. Rained the first day and snowed the next two days. The dogs pretty pretty much soaked every day. NOW, would a GSH be able to handle that?? I mean the lab that was with us, was playing through the slushy marsh's and Miloh (excuse spelling) like a champ. Would a GSH be able to do the same??
And these hunting events you spoke about AWS, where would i be able to get info on these? I think thats a great idea to see if the dogs hunting style fits mine.
Go to the AKC site and look under "Events" for "Hunting Tests"
http://www.akc.org/events/index.cfm?nav_area=events##
AWS
http://www.akc.org/events/index.cfm?nav_area=events##
AWS
GreifShorthairs
New member
Smokin250 - Maybe this will put your mind at ease a little on Shorthaireds being able to withstand the cold. The lead dog is Chip who just happens to be a German Shorthaired Pointer. He and the team won the 6 dog World IFSS Championship in Alaska. His bloodline comes from the same kennel my dogs have came from in Selah Washington.
You don't need to worry about them being able to take the cold upland hunting. You will be frozen far before they ever want to quit hunting. Frigid water is another story. Save the ice water for the Labs.
You don't need to worry about them being able to take the cold upland hunting. You will be frozen far before they ever want to quit hunting. Frigid water is another story. Save the ice water for the Labs.
Shorthairs don't have problems with the cold if they can keep moving. The problem comes when the come out from a retrieve and they have to sit in the blind and not run and keep their body temp up. Kind of like being in a tree stand and still hunting, if I can keep moving I need half the clothes to keep warm than if I were in a tree stand and not moving.
Used to use mine up in Northern MN for grouse hunting all season but only got a couple weeks out of them in the duck blind befor I had to start leaving them home.
Smoking 250 be sure your going to a hunt test and not a conformation (beauty contest) show.
AWS
Used to use mine up in Northern MN for grouse hunting all season but only got a couple weeks out of them in the duck blind befor I had to start leaving them home.
Smoking 250 be sure your going to a hunt test and not a conformation (beauty contest) show.
AWS
Last edited:
This is another place to check out performance events.
http://www.gamebirdhunts.com/bird-dog-trials.asp
AWS
http://www.gamebirdhunts.com/bird-dog-trials.asp
AWS
I'll add my 2 cents. I used to guide for waterfowl, and I do a lot of upland hunting myself. There is a reason that 99% of (WATERFOWL) trails and hunt test are won by labs, they train very well. GSP are a wonder to hunt behind on the upland, But I would put a Lab against a pointer on Pheasants most any day especially really thick cover. Just depends on what kind of hunting you do the most. But hunting is only a short portion of the time with your dog. They both seem to be really good aroung the house/family. I love the nature of a lab and the desire to please they have is second to none in my opinion. Maybe more opinionated than you wanted but I have had both and hunted behind both a lot. Right now I have a lab and he does great on the upland, Not light on his feet like a pointer for chuckars, but devestating on Pheasants.
taylormade1
Member
I would look real hard at the true red setters. I have had 2 and have been very please with them. Wonderful pets and companions as well. Please dont get them mixed up with the american irish setter. I have helped a friend who runs a gun dog school full time and trains all kinds of dogs, probaly his all around favorite do all dog is the german shothair for upland anyway.
Just my 2 cents
Just my 2 cents
GreifShorthairs
New member
taylormade1 - Do you have any pictures of your red setters? I would love to see some pictures of them.