Best .17 hornet on the market?

Originally Posted By: CoyotejunkiIt does amaze me how a Model 96 or the IMO better M98 Mauser made over 100 years ago look very very similar to today's actions. How many improvements were made to Peter and Pauls designs in the last 100 years?

There you are with opinions again. Or is it Googled "knowledge" in your case?

Do some reading on Mauser patents on the actions he built (especially the Model 98) and you'll see that the CZ action design lacks several of the significant patents that were, in his written words, some of his crowning achievements in rifle design.

A CZ with a single stack removable magazine is one that would probably make him belch the loudest along with several breeching issues. On top of that you can throw in the CZ removable bolt handle that is definitely not the mark of a Mauser action.

I'm not knocking the CZ action. I own several. I'm simply saying that the action does not exhibit many similarities to a true Mauser other than the external looks of the action itself (which looks like many others) largely because of the very visible claw extractor, in spite of how many other opinions you can find on the internet that agree with what you want to find. Maybe Catshooter's "Bonjour" photo fits here.

Win 70 CRF actions, the Ruger Hawkeye CRF actions, and other such as Kimber have claw extractors, but no one ever claims that they are Mausers as a result.

If I'm a troll for presenting facts, I can live with that. And you're taking yourself very seriously to, in your words, not care. Chill out and slow down on the name calling or your hemorrhoids might flare up on ya'.
 
Winny, you're trolling this thread because you continue to try and discredit myself and other members who are trying to give the OP our best recommendation for a gun. You can't even quote me correctly.
Also, OMG! I referenced Google as an information source, and you try to discredit me again. Myself, along with millions of other people were not blessed with the WinnyFan book of knowledge, so there's Google.
I'm sure it's exhilarating for you to try and make me look stupid like you have countless other members who are trying to help out; but really it's just petty and tiresome.
Here's a wild idea, share your knowledge in a polite way without belittling and insulting others. It would have way less typing if you would have simply stated that CZ actions share similar traits to the original Mauser action, but are not an exact copy. All the other fluff you added is trolling, period. Semantically accurate or not, CZ 527 actions are known as mini or micro Mauser actions.
 
Being "known as" doesn't mean its a fact. A CZ is far from an "exact copy" for anyone who understands the two actions. You obviously don't and would rather appear like a victim of something you're imagining.

You're trying too hard to look like a victim, coyotee. You can keep up the dialog defending your less than stellar opinion, or it can end here. Your choice.
 
Originally Posted By: coyotekillerNEWinny, please quote me where I stated the CZ is an "exact copy."
Waiting....

I never stated that you said the two were an exact copy.

I simply borrowed your words from what you wanted me to say from up above, and I simply stated that a CZ is far from an exact copy. "Exact copy" were your words that both of us have now used, but I did not imply that you stated anything that you now want me to provide for you.

I guess being a victim really is a big issue for ya', huh? Why not give it a rest and go kick your dog if that will help. I bet he'd truly appreciate your insecurity if you were to do that. I hope he bites you so that you have something else to worry about other than this.

Slow evening, dude? Try ESPN. The Yankee-Red Sox game is pretty good.
 
Please take a victory lap and declare yourself a winner of whatever it is you have to win.

The baseball game is much more interesting for me than your insecurity is.
 
Originally Posted By: Winny FanOriginally Posted By: CoyotejunkiIt does amaze me how a Model 96 or the IMO better M98 Mauser made over 100 years ago look very very similar to today's actions. How many improvements were made to Peter and Pauls designs in the last 100 years?

There you are with opinions again. Or is it Googled "knowledge" in your case?

Do some reading on Mauser patents on the actions he built (especially the Model 98) and you'll see that the CZ action design lacks several of the significant patents that were, in his written words, some of his crowning achievements in rifle design.

A CZ with a single stack removable magazine is one that would probably make him belch the loudest along with several breeching issues. On top of that you can throw in the CZ removable bolt handle that is definitely not the mark of a Mauser action.

I'm not knocking the CZ action. I own several. I'm simply saying that the action does not exhibit many similarities to a true Mauser other than the external looks of the action itself (which looks like many others) largely because of the very visible claw extractor, in spite of how many other opinions you can find on the internet that agree with what you want to find. Maybe Catshooter's "Bonjour" photo fits here.

Win 70 CRF actions, the Ruger Hawkeye CRF actions, and other such as Kimber have claw extractors, but no one ever claims that they are Mausers as a result.

If I'm a troll for presenting facts, I can live with that. And you're taking yourself very seriously to, in your words, not care. Chill out and slow down on the name calling or your hemorrhoids might flare up on ya'.

Winney, take a breathe and get off your high horse for a minute.

I never said the CZ527 nor the CZ550 were Mauser clones. And yes I wrote, IMO, SFW! I was actually praising the Mausers and hoping someone would share with us any improvements that were made to modern rifles over the Mausers designs.

I didn't attack you or call you names. But I understand why some here do.

I have bought a few dozen CZ's over the years and still have over a dozen M96's and M98's from my collector days. Even read up opinions from former presidents of the The American Custom Gunmakers Guild (ACGG). Guys such as Jack Belk amongst others.

It is late and I don't want to waste anymore of my life replying to you.
 
I highly doubt Peter Paul Mauser or whatever would care whether or not people use the term "mini-mauser." The way I understand it is that the term is used to refer to smaller calibers that are somewhat similar to a mauser. Basic fundamentals... bla bla bla. Take it up with the company's who decided to use that name, like Remington.

http://www.remington.com/pages/news-and-...on-country.aspx

I may not be as knowledgable concerning the subject, but honestly who cares what they call it? I don't believe anyone was arguing that Mini-Mausers were virtually identical to his patents or designs, and if that comparison upsets you in some way, there's no need to take it out on other forum members. As was mentioned, there are ways to be helpful and inform people without sounding condescending or using passive aggressive undertones in your posts. They were trying to be helpful and give me information regarding a rifle.

Anyways, shall we close the matter and get back to the topic on hand?
 
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I had planned to provide the "CZ's are not Mausers" information and let it go at that. One post.

Then Coyotee got his butt hurt because his opinion did not follow the information in my post, and he decided to play footsie with his opinions.
 
Originally Posted By: HavockI've decided to pick one up for predator hunting this year.
I've become pretty interested in the caliber, and have been looking at the Savage and CZ versions.
I'm not aware of any other brands that make this particular rifle. Anyone have any experience with these rifles and their build qualities? Thoughts on usage?

I'll be hunting fox, bobcat, as well as coyote this season. Looking to prevent pelt damage.

Of those two, I'd definitely choose the CZ. But my favorite is the Ruger. As a 22Hornet it wasn't particularly accurate and the cartridge was just ho-hum anyway. But as a 17AH, which I think is better than the Hornady Hornet, it's a great gun. With either 17, I'd choose the Ruger rifle over both of the others.
 
Originally Posted By: Winny FanI had planned to provide the "CZ's are not Mausers" information and let it go at that. One post.

Then Coyotee got his butt hurt because his opinion did not follow the information in my post, and he decided to play footsie with his opinions.

Same idiot, same kind of crap.
 
Would you like some pics of the CZ Havock? I wrote a mini review of the savage about a year ago, but as I said before, much prefer the CZ. The Savage was literally a one hole gun with factory ammo. I'm getting right around an inch with the CZ, which is plenty accurate for night hunting, which is why I bought it.
 
Originally Posted By: AckmanOriginally Posted By: Winny FanI had planned to provide the "CZ's are not Mausers" information and let it go at that. One post.

Then Coyotee got his butt hurt because his opinion did not follow the information in my post, and he decided to play footsie with his opinions.

Same idiot, same kind of crap.


Not that you don't have a long history of stepping in at times when smoke is being blown, Mr. Ackman....

Carry on troops. No troll or idiot comments and I'm good.
 
I would be using factory ammo, what distance were you shooting at? Where I hunt there are opportunities to take 200-300 yard shots, would the CZ's do just fine at the range? And what do you like more about the CZ?

Also, is it still a pain to find ammo for this gun lol?

I heard hornady was starting to manufacture more.
 
Sure the CZ will do 300 yards; but if there's even a breeze, you'll have significant wind drift. I'd hesitate to shoot a coyote over 200 with the 17 hornet though. I shot a coyote at 235 yards give or take this winter with the CZ. I hit him a little far back. I did not recover it, which I was unhappy about. I'm fairly confident my 223, 22-250, or 243 would have put it down hard enough to recover it. I mainly use the 17 hornet for coon hunting.
As far as what I like more between the Savage and CZ would have to be the weight and the general feel of the rifle. I have the 527 American, which makes a very nice compact rifle. The Savage felt clunky. I was willing to sacrifice accuracy for feel alone. I sold the Savage to my brother and he loves it.
I've seen ammo showing up in the local gunshop here, but it's way pricier than when I first got my hornets.
 
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