Rock Knocker
Active member
I just ordered an unassembled bee hive kit and me and some buddys are going to reverse engineer the thing and build several more.
Anyone have any pointers?
Anyone have any pointers?
Beekeeping?
- Thread starter Rock Knocker
- Start date
Foggy scope
New member
Dont bother with dove tale joints and cut then to nine and a half inches instead of nine and three quarters
Rock Knocker
Active member
Sounds good. Do you use the smaller 6 5/8 boxes as a honey super or should we just make them all the same?
Does the nine and a half inches help the frames sit better?
Does the nine and a half inches help the frames sit better?
Rocky1
New member
The 9 1/2 half inches cuts down on bee space between your frames and reduces burrcomb on the top and bottom bars. Unfortunately, it also makes your equipment unique, and should you ever grow to a point where you aren't sawing all of your own equipment out, those few initial unique boxes can become a problem in the operation.
I would wholely agree on the skipping the dovetail, just dado the joints 3/8" deep on the ends of your boxes. That will be a dado cut, 3/8" deep around the two short sides and one long side of the piece, for your two joints and your frame rest. Don't forget to adjust your length on the side pieces to compensate, you'll need to cut them 3/4" shorter than the dovetailed pieces. Nail the corners both directions, regardless of how they are milled, and liquid nail in the joints doesn't hurt at all. Liquid Nail is a little more flexible than wood glue, while wood glue does work, first time you drop a full box, wood glue joints break... Liquid Nail is a bit more flexible there.
Oh, and that is speaking from a whole bunch of years involved in commercial beekeeping. We run around 1600 hives on our end of the operation, my father is still running 1200 - 1600 hives in his antiquated age, and between our bees, what dad sends to ND, and the bees we lease out of California, we're running 5,000+ hives half the year in Central ND.
Handholds in the box can be easily sawed by setting up a jig using your dado blade, ease your piece down onto the blade, make a short pass over the blade, then lift the piece off. You can also nail cleats on the end of the boxes for handholds, but it makes your boxes a pain to stack. Be very cautious dadoing handholds on any board where you might encounter a knot. When you hit a knot with that dado blade doing that routine, things can get REALLY UGLY REALLY FAST. Still have all my fingers, but I have launched a piece or two across the room!! Oh yes... be sure and stand beside your saw during that operation, not behind the blade where it spits pieces out at however many hundreds of miles per hour.
And, don't buy budget lumber. It'll just twist and warp, and cause you problems prematurely. Spend a little more and pick up some clean 1X12 Pondersa Pine/Fir. Something that isn't going to warp and twist on you.
Initially, you should run all deep boxes, therein drawing combs for use in future broodnests. Attempting to start hives on pure foundation is not easy. They will do it, folks do it all the time, but it can be a real pain in the [beeep]. Were I you, I would run all plastic foundation; then when the mice and bugs eat it up, after your hives die, you can simply paint it with beeswax, put it back on the bees, and they'll draw it out again. If you use wax foundation, and the bugs and mice eat it up, it's gone, and you have to clean the frames up, hang new foundation, and start over. Plastic is much easier!!!
Find a local beekeeper to buy some beeswax from, you'll need 8 - 10 lbs per set of deep combs, about a pound per frame, and paint the foundation with wax before you attempt to start bees on it. Hot plate and a 2" paint brush for small operations, turkey roaster and 4" foam rollers if you're going big time!! None of it comes with any excess wax on it. There is barely enough to get them to start it, painting them fairly liberally with some good clean beeswax will make that program work a WHOLE LOT BETTER!! Don't worry if you fill the cell cups on the plastic, they'll clean it up. A little heavy actually proved better than lighter coated, they seemed to pull the cell walls thicker when we painted them heavier.
And, no the above comments about losing your hives was not intended as a wise crack directed at a newbie. We were typically spending enough on queens every year, to requeen our entire operation twice. Yeah, you do the math... 1600 hives x 2 x $15 per queen... And, everyone thinks you get rich in this business!! We're now growing around half of them.
I'd love to tell you it's rewarding and fun, but it's really a first class pain in the [beeep] anymore. We did good this winter, only lost about 30% of them from October to present. Last winter we were over 50%. And, that 30% over the winter this year was after making up losses here last spring, making up losses again when we hit the ground in ND, setting off 200 splits before end of the season, varifying everything 6 weeks before shipped, and doubling up almost 300 deadouts just before they shipped south. Had them to almost 1600 in September, dropped back to 1350 in 8 weeks before we shipped south, got down around a thousand, have set off nearly 300 splits thus far, looking at another 100+ this week.
Know several very good beekeepers that have seen far worse losses... and believe me, 95% loss on a commercial operation is not fun!
Might want to check into this class as well... Marla is fun to listen too. Pretty down to earth for a professor of bugs.
http://beelab.umn.edu/Education/Public_Courses/Beekeeping_Short_Course/index.htm
I would wholely agree on the skipping the dovetail, just dado the joints 3/8" deep on the ends of your boxes. That will be a dado cut, 3/8" deep around the two short sides and one long side of the piece, for your two joints and your frame rest. Don't forget to adjust your length on the side pieces to compensate, you'll need to cut them 3/4" shorter than the dovetailed pieces. Nail the corners both directions, regardless of how they are milled, and liquid nail in the joints doesn't hurt at all. Liquid Nail is a little more flexible than wood glue, while wood glue does work, first time you drop a full box, wood glue joints break... Liquid Nail is a bit more flexible there.
Oh, and that is speaking from a whole bunch of years involved in commercial beekeeping. We run around 1600 hives on our end of the operation, my father is still running 1200 - 1600 hives in his antiquated age, and between our bees, what dad sends to ND, and the bees we lease out of California, we're running 5,000+ hives half the year in Central ND.
Handholds in the box can be easily sawed by setting up a jig using your dado blade, ease your piece down onto the blade, make a short pass over the blade, then lift the piece off. You can also nail cleats on the end of the boxes for handholds, but it makes your boxes a pain to stack. Be very cautious dadoing handholds on any board where you might encounter a knot. When you hit a knot with that dado blade doing that routine, things can get REALLY UGLY REALLY FAST. Still have all my fingers, but I have launched a piece or two across the room!! Oh yes... be sure and stand beside your saw during that operation, not behind the blade where it spits pieces out at however many hundreds of miles per hour.
And, don't buy budget lumber. It'll just twist and warp, and cause you problems prematurely. Spend a little more and pick up some clean 1X12 Pondersa Pine/Fir. Something that isn't going to warp and twist on you.
Initially, you should run all deep boxes, therein drawing combs for use in future broodnests. Attempting to start hives on pure foundation is not easy. They will do it, folks do it all the time, but it can be a real pain in the [beeep]. Were I you, I would run all plastic foundation; then when the mice and bugs eat it up, after your hives die, you can simply paint it with beeswax, put it back on the bees, and they'll draw it out again. If you use wax foundation, and the bugs and mice eat it up, it's gone, and you have to clean the frames up, hang new foundation, and start over. Plastic is much easier!!!
Find a local beekeeper to buy some beeswax from, you'll need 8 - 10 lbs per set of deep combs, about a pound per frame, and paint the foundation with wax before you attempt to start bees on it. Hot plate and a 2" paint brush for small operations, turkey roaster and 4" foam rollers if you're going big time!! None of it comes with any excess wax on it. There is barely enough to get them to start it, painting them fairly liberally with some good clean beeswax will make that program work a WHOLE LOT BETTER!! Don't worry if you fill the cell cups on the plastic, they'll clean it up. A little heavy actually proved better than lighter coated, they seemed to pull the cell walls thicker when we painted them heavier.
And, no the above comments about losing your hives was not intended as a wise crack directed at a newbie. We were typically spending enough on queens every year, to requeen our entire operation twice. Yeah, you do the math... 1600 hives x 2 x $15 per queen... And, everyone thinks you get rich in this business!! We're now growing around half of them.
I'd love to tell you it's rewarding and fun, but it's really a first class pain in the [beeep] anymore. We did good this winter, only lost about 30% of them from October to present. Last winter we were over 50%. And, that 30% over the winter this year was after making up losses here last spring, making up losses again when we hit the ground in ND, setting off 200 splits before end of the season, varifying everything 6 weeks before shipped, and doubling up almost 300 deadouts just before they shipped south. Had them to almost 1600 in September, dropped back to 1350 in 8 weeks before we shipped south, got down around a thousand, have set off nearly 300 splits thus far, looking at another 100+ this week.
Know several very good beekeepers that have seen far worse losses... and believe me, 95% loss on a commercial operation is not fun!
Might want to check into this class as well... Marla is fun to listen too. Pretty down to earth for a professor of bugs.
http://beelab.umn.edu/Education/Public_Courses/Beekeeping_Short_Course/index.htm
Rock Knocker
Active member
Thanks for the info Rocky. A lot of helpfull stuff! I bet over a thousand hives can be quite a headache.
I'm glad you said something about good lumber because I'm sure one of my buddys would try saving on cheap stuff. The unassembled hive comes with the foundations but it didn't say what kind, we are going to have to order a bunch more and will end up with plastic. This is the first time I've heard about coating the plastic foundations with wax. Everything else I've read about is just plastic or wax, your idea sounds like the best of both worlds.
Me and the two other guys plan on starting with two hives each. Mine will be right in the back yard so I can keep an eye out for swarms or maybe keep out the elements a little more in the winter, but I will cross that bridge when I get to it.
And for some young and hard headed guys like me and my buddys, how important is a bee suit? We will stomach some bee stings just for the glory of getting honey but are we really going to get tore up by the bees?
I'm glad you said something about good lumber because I'm sure one of my buddys would try saving on cheap stuff. The unassembled hive comes with the foundations but it didn't say what kind, we are going to have to order a bunch more and will end up with plastic. This is the first time I've heard about coating the plastic foundations with wax. Everything else I've read about is just plastic or wax, your idea sounds like the best of both worlds.
Me and the two other guys plan on starting with two hives each. Mine will be right in the back yard so I can keep an eye out for swarms or maybe keep out the elements a little more in the winter, but I will cross that bridge when I get to it.
And for some young and hard headed guys like me and my buddys, how important is a bee suit? We will stomach some bee stings just for the glory of getting honey but are we really going to get tore up by the bees?
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I found this pretty interesting.
Rocky1
New member
Nope, don't know the Knox Family.
--------------
If you want bee boxes built out of cheap lumber, you can buy budget boxes pretty reasonable from Mann Lake. You will break a bunch of pieces assembling them however, and break more disassembling them to replace the piece you broke. Over time the cheap lumber will twist, warp, split, and pull your boxes apart. Sides will curl; when that happens the only way to flatten them back out is lay them on something solid and beat [beeep] out of them with the hammer, and make them split, so you can nail it back together. Cheap lumber just isn't worth what it'll cost you in the long run.
---
Suit is not always necessary. We generally work them in T-Shirt, hat and veil. Some days you get away with no hat and veil; some days the monkeys got to flex their muscles and work without t-shirts. Some days however, you will want a cast iron suit!
As a hobbyist, you can pick and choose your days, and take your time; we're not always afforded that flexibility on a commercial scale. Nice warm sunny days 2-3 days before/after a front has passed, they're usually pretty laid back. We have days where we're pulling honey, and running to the honey house to beat the rain. End of the year, when it cools off, and we have to strip everything, we will beat the bees out of 10 - 15 thousand boxes, in less than optimum weather. When you have a load that has just bounced 2,000 miles arrive in 85 degree weather, and you have to unload them, it is NOT always nice!
Seein as how you're in Minnesota however, you should understand... The alfalfa blossom has a self-pollinating pistol; if you take a grass stem and stick it down in the bottom of the alfalfa bloom, you can trip it. With a little practice, you can see that it snaps over there with pretty good force. When the bee works that alfalfa blossom, she flies up there, sticks her tongue, (probiscus if you want to get technical), down in the bottom of that flower to suck out the nectar, and when she does, that self pollinating pistol smacks her in the top of the head! And, after getting thumped in the head several hundred times in a day, well... go smack your wife/girlfriend in the head 4-5 times and see where that leads, you'll get the idea! So, yeah... they can get grumpy up there in your part of the world, but honestly I'd forego the expense of a bee suit. Long sleeve shirt, hat and veil, you might want gloves, roll of duct tape to tape up your sleeves, pants legs, etc.
Personally, I've worked bees off and on for over 50 years, started in the beeyard when I was 5 years old. Have no clue how many million hives I have handled in my life, and I have never owned a bee suit. Just recently bought a bee jacket with the zippered veil, after having borrowed one a time or two loading/unloading semis. Regular hat and veil is forever moving, sliding, wind blowing your hat and veil off, bees crawling all over you, they wind up in your veil, you get your neck eat up, stung all up side the head. The jacket and zippered veil is just really handy at times. Were I to invest, I'd buy the jacket before the entire suit. And, the one guy in our operation that started buying them, has tried all of the more popular models, and he swears by the one with the big floppy hat. The little pull over hood does not work well on the loader, you have no peripheral vision. The other one that's supposed to be so cool, is all mesh, weighs about 7-8 lbs!
--
There was an article in the American Bee Journal few years ago about painting the foundation with wax. Nephew had bought about a hundred sets of deeps with plastic frames that had been setting and all the wax was gone on the frames. Tried to get the bees to draw them so he could sell them and we had no luck!! NONE!!! Tried several times; the bees would screw them all up, but they wouldn't draw them. In 4 - 5 attempts I think we maybe got 10% of them drawn and serviceable. He shipped them down here to Florida because they were 8 frame boxes and those are more prevalent in the south. I read the article in the bee journal and decided to try it.
Wally World had turkey roasters on sale so I bought one of those, and a sack full of 4 inch rollers and roller sleeves. Took 2 of us about a day to paint all of them, trying to figure the whole program out as we went. Had some of them the wax was a little cool and they got coated really heavy, could not see a cell cup anywhere. Bees drew every one of them PERFECT!! Top bar to bottom bar, end bar to end bar, not a drone cell anywhere. We were concerned about running them through the uncapper as typically when you extract fresh drawn foundation the uncapper tends to break/tear the cell walls and you essentially wind up with foundation all over again. Monkeys in the extracting room here tried them and they worked beautifully. The only thing we could figure after looking them over is the additional wax on the foundation caused them to draw the walls of the cells thicker, and the comb stood up much better. On a limited scale like you guys are looking at, if you can find the wax, it would be well worth your time.
---
As far as wintering them... Best thing you can do is find a home for them in the barn, on the south side of the building, and insulate around them. If you don't have a barn, build a garden shed, put them on the south wall, get them up in the air 3-4 feet so the entrance isn't buried in the snow bank, insulate around them good. Drill a hole in the middle of your lid, so it's immediately above the cluster, that a regular smallmouth jar lid will fit in, order a few feeder lids, or take a frame nail and punch a bunch of holes in plain old jar lids, and give them a little sugar syrup on warm days. If you do all of that, you will have done just about everything possible to help them make it. The only other thing you can do is treat, treat, treat mid-october. Get your mite strips in, mid-October. Treat for Nosema. Give them a little Honey Bee Healthy. Put a pollen patty on them. Get 20 - 30 lbs of syrup on them, before it gets seriously cold.
Your odds of keeping them alive aren't real good up there over the winter, but I do know folks that used to keep them in that manner. Put them in the barn on the south side, piled hay bales around them, and fed them a little when they had a day or two of warm weather.
---------------
Yeah the honey tap on the bee hive is interesting, however I don't know how you're supposed to seperate the honey that is uncured from cured honey in that thing. For honey to keep, moisture content must be below 18%. Anything above that, and it ferments.
--------------
If you want bee boxes built out of cheap lumber, you can buy budget boxes pretty reasonable from Mann Lake. You will break a bunch of pieces assembling them however, and break more disassembling them to replace the piece you broke. Over time the cheap lumber will twist, warp, split, and pull your boxes apart. Sides will curl; when that happens the only way to flatten them back out is lay them on something solid and beat [beeep] out of them with the hammer, and make them split, so you can nail it back together. Cheap lumber just isn't worth what it'll cost you in the long run.
---
Suit is not always necessary. We generally work them in T-Shirt, hat and veil. Some days you get away with no hat and veil; some days the monkeys got to flex their muscles and work without t-shirts. Some days however, you will want a cast iron suit!
As a hobbyist, you can pick and choose your days, and take your time; we're not always afforded that flexibility on a commercial scale. Nice warm sunny days 2-3 days before/after a front has passed, they're usually pretty laid back. We have days where we're pulling honey, and running to the honey house to beat the rain. End of the year, when it cools off, and we have to strip everything, we will beat the bees out of 10 - 15 thousand boxes, in less than optimum weather. When you have a load that has just bounced 2,000 miles arrive in 85 degree weather, and you have to unload them, it is NOT always nice!
Seein as how you're in Minnesota however, you should understand... The alfalfa blossom has a self-pollinating pistol; if you take a grass stem and stick it down in the bottom of the alfalfa bloom, you can trip it. With a little practice, you can see that it snaps over there with pretty good force. When the bee works that alfalfa blossom, she flies up there, sticks her tongue, (probiscus if you want to get technical), down in the bottom of that flower to suck out the nectar, and when she does, that self pollinating pistol smacks her in the top of the head! And, after getting thumped in the head several hundred times in a day, well... go smack your wife/girlfriend in the head 4-5 times and see where that leads, you'll get the idea! So, yeah... they can get grumpy up there in your part of the world, but honestly I'd forego the expense of a bee suit. Long sleeve shirt, hat and veil, you might want gloves, roll of duct tape to tape up your sleeves, pants legs, etc.
Personally, I've worked bees off and on for over 50 years, started in the beeyard when I was 5 years old. Have no clue how many million hives I have handled in my life, and I have never owned a bee suit. Just recently bought a bee jacket with the zippered veil, after having borrowed one a time or two loading/unloading semis. Regular hat and veil is forever moving, sliding, wind blowing your hat and veil off, bees crawling all over you, they wind up in your veil, you get your neck eat up, stung all up side the head. The jacket and zippered veil is just really handy at times. Were I to invest, I'd buy the jacket before the entire suit. And, the one guy in our operation that started buying them, has tried all of the more popular models, and he swears by the one with the big floppy hat. The little pull over hood does not work well on the loader, you have no peripheral vision. The other one that's supposed to be so cool, is all mesh, weighs about 7-8 lbs!
--
There was an article in the American Bee Journal few years ago about painting the foundation with wax. Nephew had bought about a hundred sets of deeps with plastic frames that had been setting and all the wax was gone on the frames. Tried to get the bees to draw them so he could sell them and we had no luck!! NONE!!! Tried several times; the bees would screw them all up, but they wouldn't draw them. In 4 - 5 attempts I think we maybe got 10% of them drawn and serviceable. He shipped them down here to Florida because they were 8 frame boxes and those are more prevalent in the south. I read the article in the bee journal and decided to try it.
Wally World had turkey roasters on sale so I bought one of those, and a sack full of 4 inch rollers and roller sleeves. Took 2 of us about a day to paint all of them, trying to figure the whole program out as we went. Had some of them the wax was a little cool and they got coated really heavy, could not see a cell cup anywhere. Bees drew every one of them PERFECT!! Top bar to bottom bar, end bar to end bar, not a drone cell anywhere. We were concerned about running them through the uncapper as typically when you extract fresh drawn foundation the uncapper tends to break/tear the cell walls and you essentially wind up with foundation all over again. Monkeys in the extracting room here tried them and they worked beautifully. The only thing we could figure after looking them over is the additional wax on the foundation caused them to draw the walls of the cells thicker, and the comb stood up much better. On a limited scale like you guys are looking at, if you can find the wax, it would be well worth your time.
---
As far as wintering them... Best thing you can do is find a home for them in the barn, on the south side of the building, and insulate around them. If you don't have a barn, build a garden shed, put them on the south wall, get them up in the air 3-4 feet so the entrance isn't buried in the snow bank, insulate around them good. Drill a hole in the middle of your lid, so it's immediately above the cluster, that a regular smallmouth jar lid will fit in, order a few feeder lids, or take a frame nail and punch a bunch of holes in plain old jar lids, and give them a little sugar syrup on warm days. If you do all of that, you will have done just about everything possible to help them make it. The only other thing you can do is treat, treat, treat mid-october. Get your mite strips in, mid-October. Treat for Nosema. Give them a little Honey Bee Healthy. Put a pollen patty on them. Get 20 - 30 lbs of syrup on them, before it gets seriously cold.
Your odds of keeping them alive aren't real good up there over the winter, but I do know folks that used to keep them in that manner. Put them in the barn on the south side, piled hay bales around them, and fed them a little when they had a day or two of warm weather.
---------------
Yeah the honey tap on the bee hive is interesting, however I don't know how you're supposed to seperate the honey that is uncured from cured honey in that thing. For honey to keep, moisture content must be below 18%. Anything above that, and it ferments.
Rock Knocker
Active member
Have you used any of the one piece frame and foundation? Mann Lake has some on sale and they seem like the ticket. Wooden frames look like more of a pain to make than the boxes.
I wouldn't mind moving these hives into the garage in the winter, maybe put a screen over the entrance? I planned on putting the hives in a dog kennel that runs along the side and back of the garage. They would have a good 20ft from entrance to 6ft chain link fence. I could surround them with bails of hay in the winter or put them in the garage. They will be on the south side of the house, but there are some big cotton wood trees on the south side also.
I wouldn't mind moving these hives into the garage in the winter, maybe put a screen over the entrance? I planned on putting the hives in a dog kennel that runs along the side and back of the garage. They would have a good 20ft from entrance to 6ft chain link fence. I could surround them with bails of hay in the winter or put them in the garage. They will be on the south side of the house, but there are some big cotton wood trees on the south side also.
Rocky1
New member
The biggest problem with plastic frames is they tend to get brittle with age. Especially in northern climates when it cools off, you will see a problem with the ears snapping off the end of the frame if you drop the box, or try to knock the bees out of it. Likewise, it can be difficult to spread the plastic frames apart with your hivetool, as the top bars aren't real sturdy on most models.
Wood holds up better in that respect, although it's not uncommon for them to fall apart either under those circumstances. Mann Lake did give us a shallow plastic frame SEVERAL YEARS ago to try, and it's still running in the system without a problem yet, but we just aren't real high on all plastic.
As long as you move them out occasionally on a warm day, and remove the screen, so they can fly, you'd be OK in the garage. They have to fly on the warm days to clean the hive. Likewise, they have to fly to defecate, and if they can't defecate it causes physiological problems. If it is totally dark, and the temperature is kept cool, they will essentially go into hibernation, and you can get away with several weeks inside. If it's warm in the garage, and you're feeding them a little syrup now and then, they need to get out more often. And, if it warms up, it doesn't hurt a thing for them to buzz around and litter the snow banks, it actually does them a lot of good. You might considered an entrance screened to the outside so they can get out and fly on warm days without having to move them.
Wood holds up better in that respect, although it's not uncommon for them to fall apart either under those circumstances. Mann Lake did give us a shallow plastic frame SEVERAL YEARS ago to try, and it's still running in the system without a problem yet, but we just aren't real high on all plastic.
As long as you move them out occasionally on a warm day, and remove the screen, so they can fly, you'd be OK in the garage. They have to fly on the warm days to clean the hive. Likewise, they have to fly to defecate, and if they can't defecate it causes physiological problems. If it is totally dark, and the temperature is kept cool, they will essentially go into hibernation, and you can get away with several weeks inside. If it's warm in the garage, and you're feeding them a little syrup now and then, they need to get out more often. And, if it warms up, it doesn't hurt a thing for them to buzz around and litter the snow banks, it actually does them a lot of good. You might considered an entrance screened to the outside so they can get out and fly on warm days without having to move them.
Rock Knocker
Active member
Understood about the physiological problems if they can't defecate, I think I would have problems too.
I will have some time to think about the over winter situation.
We plan on picking up two packages each of carniolan bees on ether May 2nd or 9th. The italian bees are available also but the carniolan sound better for colder temps. We will also need pollen and food correct? What's the best food and is it just as good to make your own? And how do you know when you can stop feeding them?
I will have some time to think about the over winter situation.
We plan on picking up two packages each of carniolan bees on ether May 2nd or 9th. The italian bees are available also but the carniolan sound better for colder temps. We will also need pollen and food correct? What's the best food and is it just as good to make your own? And how do you know when you can stop feeding them?
Rocky1
New member
Order yourself a few pollen patties from Mann Lake. Cut them in half, and give them half a patty each. You may in fact have enough naturally occuring pollen by that time of year that you don't need the patties. Kind of borderline there in our neck of the woods that early, depends on the year.
Bee feed otherwise consists of sugar syrup or corn syrup. Sugar syrup is probably easiest to deal with, and a little cheaper. Pick up a few 10 lb. bags of sugar, paint stirer to go in your drill. Grab a 5 gallon bucket, fill it half full of warm water, insert paint stirer in go mode, and have someone add sugar slowly until the bucket is full. Fill bottles with holes in the lid and tip up on top of bee hive. When they've drawn all of their combs, and have ample stores to last them until the honey flow starts, you can stop feeding. I'd guess by the first week or so of June you could stop, until then 10 lbs or so of feed a week, (about a gallon) wouldn't be unreasonable.
Carniolans will work fine. They make a messy beehive, gom up everything in the hive, but they will work good for you, and one or two of the call builders around here like all the extra propolis you can send them!
Bee feed otherwise consists of sugar syrup or corn syrup. Sugar syrup is probably easiest to deal with, and a little cheaper. Pick up a few 10 lb. bags of sugar, paint stirer to go in your drill. Grab a 5 gallon bucket, fill it half full of warm water, insert paint stirer in go mode, and have someone add sugar slowly until the bucket is full. Fill bottles with holes in the lid and tip up on top of bee hive. When they've drawn all of their combs, and have ample stores to last them until the honey flow starts, you can stop feeding. I'd guess by the first week or so of June you could stop, until then 10 lbs or so of feed a week, (about a gallon) wouldn't be unreasonable.
Carniolans will work fine. They make a messy beehive, gom up everything in the hive, but they will work good for you, and one or two of the call builders around here like all the extra propolis you can send them!
Rock Knocker
Active member
Thanks a ton for all the info Rocky. It might be two or three more weeks untill we have the boxes set up. Once we have the boxes we will order foundations and pollen then do our best at having things ready for picking up the bees.
I was reading about propolis then I was working on a hand made bow with sinew and hide glue, what a [beeep] mess. I wonder of you could melt down a bunch propolis and make a real buffalo stinger.
I was reading about propolis then I was working on a hand made bow with sinew and hide glue, what a [beeep] mess. I wonder of you could melt down a bunch propolis and make a real buffalo stinger.
Foggy scope
New member
Hi Rocky
Not to hijack this thread but what are you using for varroa mite
I'm using hopgard with limited success.
Whats your thoughts
Thanks and good hunting
Foggy
Not to hijack this thread but what are you using for varroa mite
I'm using hopgard with limited success.
Whats your thoughts
Thanks and good hunting
Foggy
Rocky1
New member
We're using Amitraz; have tried various other methods, but that one seems to work best for us. You'd have to check MN regulations to see if the Apivar strip has been approved, not sure about them, but I do know ND and FL both did, as did numerous other states.
I've heard limited good things about HopGaurd. The various Acid Treatments don't work well in the south with our temperatures and humidity. Thymol is entirely too temperature sensitive, late fall when nights are cool in the north country, it's not effective. Down here in the south when day time highs go through the roof, it can be very hard on your hive. That may well be the problem with Hopguard too, have never used it, so I can't convey personal experience on that one.
I've heard limited good things about HopGaurd. The various Acid Treatments don't work well in the south with our temperatures and humidity. Thymol is entirely too temperature sensitive, late fall when nights are cool in the north country, it's not effective. Down here in the south when day time highs go through the roof, it can be very hard on your hive. That may well be the problem with Hopguard too, have never used it, so I can't convey personal experience on that one.
Rock Knocker
Active member
Well, I got my two packages of bees in their new homes last Saturday. I got stung several times, once under the shirt in the stomach, once on the finger and again right on the forehead. This Saturday I will take a couple frames out and see how the queens are doing.
One hive has been much busier collecting pollen. I have some one gallon feeders in the hives and a pollen substitute on top of the frames. The queen cages didn't have the candy cover so I saw someone replace the cork with a marshmallow so that's what I did, I hope the queen didn't get out too early on the hive that's noticeably slower.
I'm kicking myself because I forgot about coating the frames with wax until the day I got the bees and I was out of time. For what it's worth I will coat the rest of the frames I add.
It looks like I can switch the entrance reducer on the busier hive to the larger opening where my other colony seems fine with the small opening. Is the entrance reducer really something that has to be worried about much and when is a good time to make the opening larger, but not remove the entrance reducer?
One hive has been much busier collecting pollen. I have some one gallon feeders in the hives and a pollen substitute on top of the frames. The queen cages didn't have the candy cover so I saw someone replace the cork with a marshmallow so that's what I did, I hope the queen didn't get out too early on the hive that's noticeably slower.
I'm kicking myself because I forgot about coating the frames with wax until the day I got the bees and I was out of time. For what it's worth I will coat the rest of the frames I add.
It looks like I can switch the entrance reducer on the busier hive to the larger opening where my other colony seems fine with the small opening. Is the entrance reducer really something that has to be worried about much and when is a good time to make the opening larger, but not remove the entrance reducer?
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Rocky1
New member
You can always coat a few frames with wax and slip them in amongst the frames they're clustered on if they haven't drawn them and the queen started laying them. It will certainly help get your outside combs drawn faster, as they don't like to push out on foundation.
If you don't have all of your frames in the hive, and are essentially running a nuc inside a full size box, you can cut some high density styrofoam to slide down in the hive next to your frames, therein reducing the amount of empty space they have to heat and cool. They will however stick that to the inside of the box unless it fits fairly snug, so leave a 1/2" - 3/4" inch gap between it and the outside frame.
Marshmallow in the queen cage works well, they just turn her loose a little quicker, which at times is not an altogether good thing. Where they've been in a package they should be fine. Typically early release is a concern where you're making nucs and the queen smells different than the bees in the hive. Even then I couldn't even begin to tell you how thousands of queens we've put in with marshmallow in the cage. Used to rife around with a bag or two in the truck all the time.
If the queen came caged in the package, as they sometimes do with starter kits, it's not a problem at all; she'll already smell like the rest of the bees in the package. Even if she didn't, they'd probably been caged long enough to realize they didn't have a queen, and they'll readily accept her upon her release.
As a rule, we usually run a small knife blade through the candy on any queens we install. It accelerates the queens release, however it is not uncommon to find candy in cages that have sat a little too long, that is VERY HARD. When you find one like that, your queen will remain in the cage for a week more before they chew their way through to release her. It's not uncommon to find them dead in the cage. Another trick in that respect is to water the queens candy end of the cage on the table and let a little water run over the candy and sit, to soften it up.
Entrance checks serve 2 purposes:
1.) They keep other bees from picking on weaker colonies, by reducing the size of the opening into the hive that has to be guarded. In that respect the entrance check doesn't hurt anything until you get into a full blown honey flow, with an established hive, where the size of the entrance becomes a problem for bees leaving and entering the hive.
2.) They help the bees keep the hive warm during cooler weather. Unfortunately, they have an adverse impact on extremely hot days, and don't allow them to move enough air to cool the hive properly at times. We run a small opening on our nuc boxes however, 2 1/2" wide x 1/2" high, to one side of the end of the box, and I've never seen one melt down in those, even over the summer months down here in Florida.
You probably aren't going to be in a full blown honey flow for at least another month; I'd leave them until then, unless you see some really unseasonably warm weather, or you have some really little entrances.
One other benefit to the entrance check is bees will frequently not draw the foundation in the corners of your frames near the entrance, for whatever reason. With the entrance check in place, they should draw the foundation all the way to the corner of the frames.
And... Keep an eye on your pollen substitute, with a natural pollen flow on and you pouring syrup to them, they may not eat it. If they don't eat it up, it's notorius for growing hive beetle larvae and blow fly maggots. Some people swear by it; I swear at it. Typically refuse to put it in, but it does occasionally have its place. Only way I've found to get them to eat it, is to put it on without feed, so they consume it for the sugar content. Other guys swear they put 2 on, and feed at the same time, and they just eat it right up. Personally, I think they're full of [beeep]!!
If you don't have all of your frames in the hive, and are essentially running a nuc inside a full size box, you can cut some high density styrofoam to slide down in the hive next to your frames, therein reducing the amount of empty space they have to heat and cool. They will however stick that to the inside of the box unless it fits fairly snug, so leave a 1/2" - 3/4" inch gap between it and the outside frame.
Marshmallow in the queen cage works well, they just turn her loose a little quicker, which at times is not an altogether good thing. Where they've been in a package they should be fine. Typically early release is a concern where you're making nucs and the queen smells different than the bees in the hive. Even then I couldn't even begin to tell you how thousands of queens we've put in with marshmallow in the cage. Used to rife around with a bag or two in the truck all the time.
If the queen came caged in the package, as they sometimes do with starter kits, it's not a problem at all; she'll already smell like the rest of the bees in the package. Even if she didn't, they'd probably been caged long enough to realize they didn't have a queen, and they'll readily accept her upon her release.
As a rule, we usually run a small knife blade through the candy on any queens we install. It accelerates the queens release, however it is not uncommon to find candy in cages that have sat a little too long, that is VERY HARD. When you find one like that, your queen will remain in the cage for a week more before they chew their way through to release her. It's not uncommon to find them dead in the cage. Another trick in that respect is to water the queens candy end of the cage on the table and let a little water run over the candy and sit, to soften it up.
Entrance checks serve 2 purposes:
1.) They keep other bees from picking on weaker colonies, by reducing the size of the opening into the hive that has to be guarded. In that respect the entrance check doesn't hurt anything until you get into a full blown honey flow, with an established hive, where the size of the entrance becomes a problem for bees leaving and entering the hive.
2.) They help the bees keep the hive warm during cooler weather. Unfortunately, they have an adverse impact on extremely hot days, and don't allow them to move enough air to cool the hive properly at times. We run a small opening on our nuc boxes however, 2 1/2" wide x 1/2" high, to one side of the end of the box, and I've never seen one melt down in those, even over the summer months down here in Florida.
You probably aren't going to be in a full blown honey flow for at least another month; I'd leave them until then, unless you see some really unseasonably warm weather, or you have some really little entrances.
One other benefit to the entrance check is bees will frequently not draw the foundation in the corners of your frames near the entrance, for whatever reason. With the entrance check in place, they should draw the foundation all the way to the corner of the frames.
And... Keep an eye on your pollen substitute, with a natural pollen flow on and you pouring syrup to them, they may not eat it. If they don't eat it up, it's notorius for growing hive beetle larvae and blow fly maggots. Some people swear by it; I swear at it. Typically refuse to put it in, but it does occasionally have its place. Only way I've found to get them to eat it, is to put it on without feed, so they consume it for the sugar content. Other guys swear they put 2 on, and feed at the same time, and they just eat it right up. Personally, I think they're full of [beeep]!!