Abandon ship: Run from the public schools!

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You never did address why home schooled kids do so well compared to government schooled kids in spelling and geography bees.



Bud. Are you even reading my posts? I twice addressed the entire concept in 2 different posts I just did type the word home schooling out specifically.

Let's try again.

When a public school takes money from the government to conduct business, they are forced by law to follow certain rules. One of these rules states that we are obligated to teach every child that walks through the door, regardless of any special needs they have. When a public school teacher's attention is divided between 24 'typical' students, 2 autistic children, 1 child who has temper issues, and 1 blind students, it's a challenge.

A home schooling environment has a smaller students to teacher ratio thus it's easier for your wife. Not much of a challenge there. More information can be taught.....

While the home schooling environment is a utopia to some, it's often referred to as a waste to other more educated people.

-Anyone can tutor a child. What credentials does your wife have to show she knows how to teach a child.

-Beyond 5th grade do you really think your wife is smart enough to teach to simulate a junior or high school setting in teaching all the subject matter? Remember your public school student is taught by someone who specializes in their subject matter. Civics teacher has a minor in civics. Math teacher has to be considered a master teacher in their subject matter. I seriously doubt your wife is considered a master teacher in any subject matter she tutors your children on.

- Sports programs. Is your wife the javafour football team coach? LOL. No school sports programs.

- Liberal Arts- is your wife an an accomplished band or orchestra teacher and able to teacher music theory to kids? It's tough for your kid to be part of the band when he is alone on your sofa playing the tuba.

- Socialization with other students in a free environment. How on earth can you think your son gets the same socialization experience as a public school kid? Your coddling him and it will be a rude awakening when he get. It's tough to teach real life coping skills when he's surrounded by your wife and maybe 1 other student.

I could go on and on. Now you see why the smartest people in education (in the world) frown on home schooling.

It's many times the blind teaching the blind.



I hope you realize that to neutral readers your arrogance just casts doubt on your positions, right?

You have become frustrated and have adopted the verbal thrashings. In fact, your anger and inability to deal with simple facts, combined with your attitude, makes me very concerned that you are in control of little kids all day. Kids require patience and understanding, not condescendtion and you are clearly very condescending--as is evidenced here.

For example, to say: "I could go on and on. Now you see why the smartest people in education (in the world) frown on home schooling." Wow, how arrogant! Gee, can you cite a source for that outrageous claim?

Instead of addressing the issues you say those who disagree with you are just dumb! Not as smart as you, eh? OK, sure.

First, your reading comprehension is severely challenged.

Speaking of reading comprehension, I never said I home school, yet you have not only stated that I do but you have made derisive comments about me for doing it. I don't. My sons attend private schools, one religious and on special needs for my youngest, autistic, son. (BTW, if your public school has autistic kids in the class with non-special needs kids then they should not. They are not addressing those autistic kids' needs.

Dawg and Savage home school, not me. I pay a ton of money to keep my kids away from guys like you and your Democrat-activist colleagues. In fact, I think the (on average) $9000 that the public schools spend annually per student should be removed from your system and returned to the parents, via voucher, to be applied to a private school of THEIR choosing. naturally, your union opposes this common-sense ideal with vigor.

Keep calling Savage, Dawg and me stupid, though. I have not been called that since I was about five and it is kinda funny. BTW, I have a BA and am an alumnus of Seattle University School of Law (176 LSAT score, thanks). I very well might have significantly more formal education than you do. Difference between us is I know it doesn't make me smart, lots of guys with a lot less formal education are a lot smarter than me and I know that is true. I see this reality isn't clear to you, yet.

In discussing issues you lose credibility when you attack your opponents as "ignorant" or ill-educated simply because they agree with you.

Now, you also claimed the NEA only represents ~40% of public school teachers. You, predictably, cited no source. I'm curious where you got that figure. Your union claims 3.2 million members ( http://www.nea.org/aboutnea/index.html ). There are, according to the US BLS, in the US ~3,954,000 teachers ( http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos069.htm ). So, where did the 40% figure come from? It looks to me like, even if you take out some for support staff, etc., you are still running a lot higher than your 40% number.

Most states, in fact, are NOT Right to Work and in those NEA membership is NON OPTIONAL for public school teachers. It is COMPULSORY (The Left loves to COMPEL citizens to do things I notice...but I digress). Teachers who are normal, non-liberals MUST join that anti-God, anti-family, anti-freedom union of yours. AND, lots of teachers in Right to Work states, like you in AZ, choose to join it, again, like you have decided to do.

Where did your 40% claim come from?

BTW, this AM at drop off I told some fellow private school parents about your 'creative spelling' argument and they shook their heads and expressed comfort in their decision to go private--just giving you some feedback. Not only do our kids pray and discuss God as part of their education but they are 'forced' to spell correctly, irrespective of its impact on their creativity.

BTW, we just had conferences yesterday and my oldest boy, Jake, 12, did very well across the board, however he has a 103 average in Government class (over 100 because he does lots of extra credit) and that is the highest of any kid in the entire 7th grade. (Sorry, just had to brag!) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Oh, almost forgot, your union opposes the Boy Scouts of America and has lobbied to have the BSA Troops and Packs from being able to use school buildings. Why, you ask? Well, because the BSA does NOT allow gays to come in and be around the boys. naturally your union thinks the gays SHOULD have access to the boys and they fight the BSA to force that view. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3827/is_200107/ai_n8996538

OK, here are a number of the example you'd asked for, of the NEA dictating Leftist curricula. That's in addition to all the stuff I have already posted in other threads which included video of a NEA member in action abusing a little girl in her charge.









Teachers Unions: Are the Schools Run for Them?

by James Bovard




Public education is the most expensive 'gift' that most Americans will ever receive. Government school systems are increasingly coercive and abusive both of parents and students. Government schools in hundreds of cities, towns, and counties have been effectively taken over by unions, and children are increasingly exploited, thwarted, and stymied for the benefit of organized labor.

Government schools are increasingly run by the unions and for the unions. Former U.S. Secretary of Education Lamar Alexander observed, "After the post office, schools are the most unionized activity in America. [Teachers unions] collect a lot of money in dues, they are often the largest lobby in the state, they are very, very powerful." Teachers unions are especially powerful in inner cities, where teacher pay is often highest and teacher performance is usually the worst. Mario Fantini, in his book What's Best for Children, declared, "For many black and Puerto Rican parents, the teachers unions now represent the 'enemy.'" Reverend Jesse Jackson has questioned teachers' "right to strike for more money when the employers taxpaying parent-holds tax receipts in one hand and test results in the other that prove he's paying more and more for less and less."

Teacher monopoly-bargaining laws (laws that permit unions to claim to represent and speak for all teachers, and to force school boards to deal with unions) in 34 states cover 67 percent of the nation's teachers. Teachers unions have worked to destroy local control of education, subvert standards, prevent teacher accountability, and deny parents a significant voice in their children's education. Unions have launched strikes to prevent and restrict 'parental interference' in public education. Thanks to a strong union, New York school janitors are paid an average of $57,000 a year, yet are required to mop the schools' floors only three times a year. As a result, New York City public schools are sometimes filthier than New York City streets.

Teachers unions have long been the most powerful force in education at both state and local levels. Forbes magazine nicknamed the NEA 'The National Extortion Association.' An October 11, 1995, Wall Street Journal editorial entitled 'The Unions' Schools' noted, The next time you're visiting a state's Capitol building, scan the neighborhood for a nearby building that's as big or bigger. There, in the largest, grandest, best-situated office building you're likely to find one of the most powerful political institutions in the state: the teachers' union.

The New York Times noted last year that teachers unions have been "for decades the most conspicuous voice in American education." Teachers unions do not hesitate to use their clout blatantly. The NEA announced a boycott of Florida orange juice after the Florida citrus department advertised on the Rush Limbaugh radio show. As Barbara Phillips reported in the Wall Street Journal in January, the local teachers union in Jersey City, New Jersey, threatened a statewide boycott against Pepsi if PepsiCo did not withdraw from its support of Mayor Bret Schundler's school voucher proposal. There is no limit to the brazen demands of some unions: the West Virginia teachers union sparked controversy in February by demanding that teachers be permitted to retire at age 50 with full benefits – even though the teacher pension fund was far in hock.

Policy Dictators

Teachers unions are increasingly dictating policy to the schools. The NEA has denounced back-to-basics programs as 'irrelevant and reactionary.' The union is the leading advocate of 'no-fault' teaching -- whatever happens, don't blame the teacher. The Chicago Tribune concluded in 1988 that the Chicago Teachers Association has "as much control over operations of the public schools as the Chicago Board of Education" and "more control than is available to principals, parents, taxpayers, and voters." The Tribune noted that "even curriculum matters, such as the program for teaching children to read, are written into the [union] contract, requiring the board to bring any proposed changes to the bargaining table."

As Richard Mitchell noted in his classic The Graves of Academe, the NEA has played a crucial role in mentally debasing American public schools. In 1918 it authored a federal government report known as "Cardinal Principles of Secondary Education." Mitchell summarized the principles:

It is a thematic illusion of our educational enterprise that understanding can be had without knowledge, that the discretion can be informed without information, that judgment need not wait on evidence ... The self-interest of a massive educationists' trade union is evident on every page of Cardinal Principles ... They wanted to be not teachers but preachers, and prophets too, charging themselves with the cure of the soul of democracy and the raising up in the faith of true believers.

In 1971 the NEA issued a 'Call to Action' that renewed its commitment to the Cardinal Principles. It declared, "We have overemphasized the intellectual development of students at the expense of other capacities." Thanks to the NEA's success in rewriting school curricula, student knowledge of history has nose-dived, student reading and comprehension have plummeted, and college remedial classes have thrived.

"Solidarity Forever"

Teachers unions have sometimes blatantly sought to manipulate what children are taught in order to inculcate pro-union attitudes. In the late 1970s the Miami affiliate of the American Federation of Teachers sent out a bulletin urging music teachers to "order music such as 'Solidarity Forever,'" English teachers to "incorporate short stories, novels, poems, and films depicting labor struggles and conflicts," and math teachers to "use labor and management as specific examples in problems." But, of course, the union members were objective in their class discussions.

Teachers unions blatantly exploit their power over school children. In Montgomery County, Maryland, union teachers refused to write letters of recommendations to colleges for students unless the students first wrote to the county council urging an increase in government spending for education (and, naturally, higher salaries for teachers). One high school senior told the Washington Post, "The consensus among students seems to be it may be blackmail, but students are going to go along with it anyway."

In California in 1991, teachers required students to write to state legislators demanding more money for education. The tactic backfired because numerous letters contained threats of physical violence against the legislators.

At Wilson High School in Washington, D.C., teachers gave parents a formal notice that they would not write letters of recommendation for students unless parents wrote three letters demanding higher pay for teachers: "Please submit to each teacher from whom your child is requesting a college recommendation your letters to your city council member, the superintendent and your school board member along with three addressed and stamped envelopes." Parents thus had to grovel in front of a teacher -- to surrender their right to their own opinion on public education policy -- in order for their children to receive consideration from the teachers.


Teachers have stronger legal rights to tax dollars than the taxpayers have to a quality education for their children. School systems face vastly more repercussions from firing an incompetent teacher than from totally neglecting school children. In 1988, the Chicago Tribune reported:

All 22 students in Grace Currin's 4th grade class must attend summer school this year because, their principal says, Currin did not teach the children enough to pass to the next grade. Dyanne Dandridge-Alexander, principal at [Chicago's] Spencer Elementary School: "Those children have suffered because they have a totally inept teacher that no one has been able to fire."

A 1992 Detroit Free Press investigation entitled 'Shielding Bad Teachers' concluded that it takes a school district seven years and costs an average of $100,000 to fire a single incompetent public school teacher. Seven years is over half of the schooling time of the average pupil. The Free Press concluded, "No protections are built in for the state's 1.5 million public school students, who can suffer physical, sexual or educational abuse." The American Association of School Administrators conducted an audit of District of Columbia public schools and concluded that an 'astonishingly low' number of teachers receive unsatisfactory ratings and that it is 'nearly impossible' to fire bad teachers.

Potent Political Power

Many politicians have claimed that the problems of public education can be resolved by rigorous new teacher evaluation programs. But teachers unions often politically dominate state legislatures, and the legislators protect the teachers against their own incompetence. In 1991 the Louisiana legislature voted to suspend teacher evaluations for one year. That evaluation had originally been introduced as part of a joint package with large pay raises for teachers; after the legislature enacted the pay raises, the teachers unions then launched a successful attack on the evaluation program.

Homeschooling is one of the fastest growing triumphs in family rights in the country. Naturally, teachers unions have been fiercely opposed to permitting parents to teach their own children to read and write. Annette Cootes of the Texas State Teachers Association declared that "home schooling is a form of child abuse." The NEA annually passes resolutions calling for a de facto ban on homeschooling.

One measure of the coerciveness of the government school monopoly is the percentage of parents who would remove their kids from government schools if they could. If Americans could choose -- if they had not already paid for public education through taxes -- there would likely be a wholesale exodus from government schools in many cities. A 1992 poll of black residents of Milwaukee revealed that 83 percent favored a voucher system that would allow parents to choose their children's school. A 1991 Gallup poll found that 71 percent of people 18 to 29 favored educational vouchers and 62 percent of people 30 to 39 favored vouchers. The Gallup survey found that "by a 10-to-1 margin, respondents said private schools do a better job of ... giving students individual attention and maintaining discipline."

Teachers unions and school officials have repeatedly sabotaged parents' efforts to defect from the public school monopoly. In 1992 in California, a coalition sought to put on the state ballot a proposal to provide a $2,500 state scholarship to children attending private schools. (Since the state of California was then spending over $6,000 per public school student, taxpayers would save over $3,000 for each additional student transferring from public to private schools). Though organizers got almost one million signatures to put the measure on the ballot, the effort was bushwhacked by the California Teachers Association and public school officials. Teachers at El Camino Real Elementary School in Irvine gave students oversized checks stamped with the word 'fraud' in their campaign to thwart the measure.

As economist Thomas Sowell noted, "The Los Angeles Unified School District has used its taxpayer provided cable television channel to propagandize against allowing the public to vote in November on an initiative to permit school choice. Los Angeles school board member Julie Korenstein warned that allowing parents to choose between public and private schools would "end up with bigotry and ultimately with a fascist type of society." Del Weber of the California Teachers Association declared, "There are some proposals that are so evil that they should never even be presented to the voters."

Squads of teachers traveled around the state to surround the petitioners and prevent people from signing the petition. Many teachers signed the petitions numerous times knowing that the state government would nullify hundreds of thousands of valid signatures as a penalty against duplicate signatures. Conny McCormack, San Diego's registrar of voters, concluded: "This is an unprecedented case of intentional fraud."

The power of the teachers unions is one of the best reasons to pursue the separation of school and state. There is no simple reform, no fancy political trick that will break the power of the teachers unions over the day-to-day activities of public schools. Given the realities of campaign contributions and organized greed, it will always be easier for teachers unions to exploit the education system for their own benefit than for parents to fight the eternal bureaucratic and political wars necessary to protect their children.
 
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Dawg, actually the point being made was that home schooled children (because of the lower parent/teacher to child/student ratio)may perform better on tests up until they reach a certain age level (grade 5 or 7) and they they fail to perform up to standard because their parents lack the necessary education, skills, and subject matter knowledge to teached them with the same degree of professionalism that a trained, educated, and licensed teacher does. Thus, it is regarded as a waste of time after the child reaches said level of education. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Your comprehension skills need a workout --- extra homework for you tonight! LOL /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

So, with homeschooling and coaching both activities, do you ever let them venture out of your supervision and into "the big bad world" with anti-Christian socialists lurking around every corner! LMAO /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif



WHAT!!?? Where is your evidence for the outrageous claim that home schooled kids do worse academically in the post grades 5-7 levels??? Please cite a source for this.
 
I know what his point is EastCoastLiberal. His point is also wrong. Homeschooled kids typically enter college light years a head of the govschoolers. If their performance dropped after 7th grade, that wouldn't be the case now would it? There are many computer and online courses and curricula for homeschoolers whose parents aren't "trained, educated, or licensed." Today home schooling is much more than reading the Bible by candlelight in a backwoods cabin with a dirt floor as you libs would like to believe. We can get WiFi in my dirt floored cabin. As for the the "anti-Christian socialists"-we go hunting for them on Saturdays and they taste like tofu.
 
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Java .... when quoting sources or trying to understand the info convayed therein, it is of utmost importance to comprehend how the information was compilled. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

In your previous post on salaries you said "Here are the mechanical engineer's earnings averages", when in fact the information you actually showed pertained to Median starting figures. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

A Median is a number seperating the higher half of a sample size from the lower half of the sample size based strictly upon where the number falls in the sample size. Medians and Averages are two distinct mathamatical concepts /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif... there can be a HUGE difference depending upon the composition of the sample. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I.e. if higher numbers are more distributed at the top, than the median will understate the average and vice versa.

The STARTING averages for mechanical engineeers in 2007 (the next chart down from the one you quoted)shows $62,798 for a Masters and $72,763 for a PHD ... these figures are well in excess of the figures you based your argument upon. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif



I'm sorry, you are mistaken and didn't read the source I cited correctly. My numbers did NOT come from the starting salary table (Table 3: Average starting salary by engineering specialty and degree , 2007); my numbers came from Table 2 (Table 2 shows wage-and-salary earnings distributions in May 2006 for engineers in specialties covered in this statement. Table 2: Earnings distribution by engineering specialty, May 2006).

Again, these engineers also have difficult degrees and work through the summer. The also don't get off for all the other lengthy holidays that teachers do.

The point to all of this goes to Hyper's contention that public school teachers are underpaid. I have posted articles and data showing that they are not--that in fact the opposite is true.

All I have seen in response is hearsay and anecdote, not real numbers or sources providing an alternative analysis.
 
Yes Java I know that they came from table 2, but you clearly stated that they were Averages and I Corrected you by explaining that they were Medians --- that's why I explained the term! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
 
Javafour- I'll address your gross misunderstandings a little bit at a time rather than an epistle of a post. I find that when I do this you grasp the concepts I am trying to convey better.

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special needs for my youngest, autistic, son. (BTW, if your public school has autistic kids in the class with non-special needs kids then they should not. They are not addressing those autistic kids' needs.



Being a parent of an autistic child, you well know there are varying grades of autism, from mild to severe. Blanketing your response in saying that the 'autistic child's need are not being met if they are in a regular classroom' shows me you either don't know enough about autism education or you were just using this as a point to find more faults about public education.

Let me educate you on teaching autistic children and this (isn't even my area of knowledge) but it's apparent you don't understand as much as you try to make other perceive.

The federal government says that by law a public school should integrate all autistic children as much as they can handle into a mainstream classroom. For many severely autistic children that means just lunch, recess, and special area classes like music or PE. Many autistic children are high functioning and can do just fine in a traditional classroom. My public school runs one of the few autistic programs in a district of 35,000 students. The teachers are all considered 'Master Teachers' by the state and federal government. They're under a microscope by parents all the time and some out with flying colors.

If you send your child to a private school then many of the federal rules don't apply. Money is not taken from the government so they don't have to follow the laws that have been set up to best educate special needs children. They can take your autistic child and throw him in a room for of toys for hours and there is no accountability.

After taking my kids to lunch I swung by one of the autistic room on campus and spoke with the teacher that teaches in there about our conversation. (It's so great to take what you say and put it in perspective with real teachers who have the inside track on education rather than just rely on silly articles to form opinions). She said basically that many private schools are light years behind public schools in the education of autistic students. She said what happens at our school is cutting edge education that is getting incredible results. The parents of the students are 100% behind the teachers, the program, and the district.

Careful about spouting off about anything remotely authoritative regarding education to me. I am surrounded by some of the best teachers in the nation and can just walk over and ask them if you are full of BS or not, which we just realized you were on this subject.
 
I am going against my typical philosophy of letting someone spout off without correcting spelling and grammar but you asked.

'Condescendtion' is not a word in English. You used it below in your ramblings.

ok back to the topic at hand.

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I hope you realize that to neutral readers your arrogance just casts doubt on your positions, right?

You have become frustrated and have adopted the verbal thrashings. In fact, your anger and inability to deal with simple facts, combined with your attitude, makes me very concerned that you are in control of little kids all day. Kids require patience and understanding, not condescendtion and you are clearly very condescending--as is evidenced here.

For example, to say: "I could go on and on. Now you see why the smartest people in education (in the world) frown on home schooling." Wow, how arrogant! Gee, can you cite a source for that outrageous claim?

Instead of addressing the issues you say those who disagree with you are just dumb! Not as smart as you, eh? OK, sure.



I am sorry if you, as an adult who has insulted my profession and me personally, feel like you are being patronized.

When you cite works that are invalid from sources that are questionable (many readers have pointed this out to you) and ramble on like you know more about public education than the people who are in that profession you can't help but think you are a little slow or something. I then to insure you understand what I am talking about, dumb down what I say. It probably feels condescending in nature.

Making the utterly hilarious assumption that because I speak to you on an adult level, finding fault in your arguments and pointing out glaring holes in your philology on education means I speak to 9-10 year olds in the same way is so far out in left field it is ridiculous.

I have many people disagree with me on a myriad of subjects. Adults who can't get something through their head even when its repeated over and over again, who are 100% blind to even considering alternative ideas and opinions are often considered either dumb or ignorant.

You claim that I have become frustrated and have now decided to just insult you rather than debate the issue at hand. Anyone can read this thread and see I have supported my ideas and viewpoints with real life experiences while you have from square 1 have done not much more than posted articles from authors who are paid to speak poorly of public schools in general. Did you honestly think someone here wouldn't go check your sources and find that these people writing these articles are trying to make a buck off of the platform of failing public schools?

If you don't like tomatoes being hurled at you then stop hurling them at others.

*By the way I still haven't forgotten that you haven't been able to show me 1 single solitary thing my union forces me to teach that would go against my conservative morals and values.

Form the beginning of your insane educational posts in this section all I have said from day 1 was the following-

(A) Making the generalization that all public educators are liberals is wrong.
(B) Making the assumption that the NEA dictates what we as public educators teach in our classrooms is wrong.
(C) Teachers in a public school setting care as much about their students as anyone teaching anywhere under any circumstances.

If you want to go back and revisit any of these items you obviously disagree with yet can't support feel free.
 
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I pay a ton of money to keep my kids away from guys like you and your Democrat-activist colleagues.



...a he thinks he isn't offensive in the way he writes. lol

Funny, in Arizona, we have a very conservative teacher base in public schools. Teachers like me huh?

I am a lifetime member of the NRA.
I hunt every chance I get.
I have voted Republican since turning 18.
I have dedicated my life so working in my community to better it.
I have never been convicted of a felony.
I don't drink alcohol, smoke, or use any prohibited drugs.
I have went to church consistently since I was a toddler.
I lead a venture boy scout troop- troop 886.
I have coyote skins hung up in my classroom and teach about predator control and its roll in society and the ecosystem for 3 years now.

Let's stop and remember what many PredatorMasters.com moderators said about the activities in my classroom last year. Moderators are bolded for your inspection. I should search more I am sure there are more than had great comments about what goes on in my classroom. I wonder if these fathers would worry about their child in my classroom- I seriously doubt it.

nmleon- Great job, those kids are LEARNING.

Weasel-UT- The kids look like they are really into it. Good going!


All Predator Calls- Great job. I hope your hands on approach to teaching rubs off on the faculty.. Bet these kids will remember this project for many years.

Tim Lewis (soreloser)-Good for you, good for the kids and an outstanding job as always by the PM members. Having lived in AZ and my wife being in school teacher in AZ for a number of years I can completely relate with what you have done for these kids.

Toy Tebbe- I've been waiting for this post Scott. One of the best posts I've read in a long time. Very cool of you and those who donated!

jimanaz- Wish I could think of something snappy to say....think I might be speechless. What an outstanding job by the contributors and the educator.

CoyoteDoc1- Great work Hyper, just curious, after all that measuring and work the kids put in, where was the biggest coyote from? The smallest?

Redfrog- Wow! you guys really know how to support the youngsters. Hyperwx, let me know how many more you need and Predator Masters will get them to you.

This year a PredatorMaster.com moderator came to me asking for advice and help on making a self-contained unit that could be used by a teacher in a classroom to educate children about predators and their role in nature and society. I gave some advice and hopefully this project blossoms into something beneficial. I know I could have used it when I first started teaching.

You are alone in your extreme viewpoints. You'll stay alone too if you don't at least recognize the 3 points I listed above are in poor taste.
 
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AND, lots of teachers in Right to Work states, like you in AZ, choose to join it, again, like you have decided to do.



Don't start sentences with the word AND. It is a conjunction and a general error in grammar.

In reference to your quote above, do you remember why I said joined the NEA?

The rational I have is 100% valid and if you were in my shoes as a pubic school teacher I imagine you'd do the exact same thing if you cared about your life and family.

If I am sued by a student, a parent, a school, or a district, I am given quality legal representation at no cost to me. My current job is at stake. My retirement is at stake. My teaching certificate could be at stake.

That is the main reason here in Arizona many male teachers are union members.

I can already hear you, "but...but... but they support gay marriage, but .. but... they don't support the 2nd amendment."

Clue in- If a student has some agenda against me and falsely accuses me of of something (happens all the time), I am hung out to dry and my family and I are in dire straights. I pay $400 a year to have the assuredly that I have a fighting chance to survive a situation like that.

You have to understand a simple concept like that.
 
i can tell you all that my 17 year old daughter will have her AA this next spring. she has been home schooled her whole life. all that BS about being under socialized is a bunch of BS.
i wouldnt send my kids to a public school if you put a gun to my head
 
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Wow! now I see where the Hyper comes from in Hyperwax!


Arrogance? Yes but very unfounded!





Your petty insults remind me of a bothersome fly. Shoo fly, don't bother me.
 
I'm going to make a couple of brief observations here. First off, no one here should bring up spelling or punctuation because all of the above posts are full of errors.....even yours Teach. Better get out the red pen.
Now what I see here is a bunch of "Blanket" statements like "Public school sucks" and "Home schooled kids will be psychopathic killers" You're both right but you're both wrong also. Public school isn't for everyone but neither is homeschooling. My son homeschooled up to the 6th grade level. He's now in High School and excels in the honor classes, plays football, wrestles, and stays pretty involved and to tell you the truth, I haven't noticed any of the "social skills of a psychopathic serial killer". I can understand your frustration with Java for attacking your profession that YOU seem to take very seriously and I'm sure your very good at. I wish my son had had teachers more like you, but to make statements like that, belittling someone's children, is just wrong. We started homeschooling my son to remove him from a very dangerous situation and for you to tell us we did him a disservice is arrogant, juvenile, and misinformed. Don't get me wrong, there are hurdles in homeschooling, but going to school isn't the only place a kid learns social skills. You've got to keep them active in extra curricular activities. Sports, clubs, outings with other kids and so on. It seems like all the people who make rash statements about homeschooling think you keep your kid locked in a closet when they're not studying. This extreme isolation might happen once in a while but it's far from the norm in the home schooling circles. Just like the bad teacher pushing his/her religion or politics or sexual misconduct isn't the norm in public schools either. [At least not here]. One more thing, You claim to be a conservative Republican, and I know you didn't say YOU advocate this, but trying to get the government involved in outlawing or even over seeing homeschooling is about as liberal as liberal gets. I know some of what you said was aimed at the ones attacking you, but be careful, there are some of us here that don't deserve it.

P.S. Should I be sleeping with one eye open? He's right upstairs sleeping.....I think......AHHHHHHHHHHHHelp!!!!!
 
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some NEA members take their liberal views to the classroom and attempt to push them on the children in our schools.



Remember it is against the law in many states, including mine, Arizona, for a public school teacher to endorse a presidential candidate or proposition on the ballot. You cold lose your teaching credentials and not be able to teach anymore in the state.



This may well be the case in Arizona. If that law was able to be enforced here, there'd be no teachers left in the schools. The liberal garbage is regurgitated in schools at every level. It is especially bad at the university level where the libs attack anyone that doesn't agree with their BS. MI VHNTR
 
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It is especially bad at the university level where the libs attack anyone that doesn't agree with their BS



I hadn't even thought of that. I definitely need to throw in a disclaimer: Any of my pro public schools comments only apply to K-12. I wouldn't dream of defending the University system. The college I briefly attended had a professor who had done his doctoral thesis on beastiality and bragged about servicing his poodle. He never brought up politics but somehow I doubt he was a religious conservative.

Nate
 
Depends on which system you happen to live in/near. Lately, I've worked Security/School Resource @ an "alternative school" where juveniles kicked out of regular school get a BOOT CAMP style chance to earn their way back into the regular school..

It's a "noble cause' but a large number of these-particularly the males-are on the trail to a life of crime and this is just a way station for them. That's only my opinion, but I grew up in this system, graduated with honors back in the STONE AGE (1963) and there were no 'alternative schools' then. Just one 3 day suspension, and after that, permanent expulsion.

This coin has two sides, but my observations of both lead me to believe that the key component of the system when I graduated from it so long ago were the services of that legendary Jar Head. Corporal Punishment! Corporal Punishment did'nt even need to call a kids parents to apply the wood to tht butt! Every Coach in the gym could stand in for Corporal Punishment without even calling the front office or having a 'witness'. You could hear the REVERBERATIONS of the 'licks' meted out by Corporal Punishment and they pealed out a terrible sound to those others in the crowd who would disrespect their Adult leaders and teachers.

We need Corporal Punishment to return to Active Duty!
 
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This coin has two sides, but my observations of both lead me to believe that the key component of the system when I graduated from it so long ago were the services of that legendary Jar Head. Corporal Punishment! Corporal Punishment did'nt even need to call a kids parents to apply the wood to tht butt! Every Coach in the gym could stand in for Corporal Punishment without even calling the front office or having a 'witness'. You could hear the REVERBERATIONS of the 'licks' meted out by Corporal Punishment and they pealed out a terrible sound to those others in the crowd who would disrespect their Adult leaders and teachers.

We need Corporal Punishment to return to Active Duty!



Corporal Punishment went down in my H.S., and no phone calls were made either. Actually most small schools in Texas still enforce it i believe. I personally believe its the LOCATION of the school that will determine what kind of school it is, good or bad.

So moral of the story is, dont bash every public school because some ARE teaching kids. Dont bash homeschooling, because not every homeschooled child turns out to be a wierdo.
 
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