6MM BENCH REST CALIBER

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what is the diffrence in the old 6mm and the newer 6mm br?



The "Old 6mm" holds almost twice as much powder as the 6mmBR.

It's about the same relationship as the "old 22-250", and the 222 Rem.

In well built rifles, the "old 6mm Rem" is a 600 to ~1,000 yd ground hog rifle, the 6mmBR is a 400 to ~500 yd ground hog rifle.


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Why would you say that the 6BR is only good to 500 yds?

Do you mean it can't hit them or that if hit it won't kill them? If you check with people that shoot paper, the 6BR holds all kinds of records at 600 and 1000 yds. I just a few minutes ago got back from shooting my Dtech 6BR AR at 600 yds and I was shooting with a guy with a 3 or 4 thousand dollar bolt rifle (6BR) and I shot the same score as he did on the 1st 2 strings of 20 rds. I didn't do as well when the wind started blowing alot, but the rifle was competitive with his high dollar bolt gun. The ballistics of a 6BR is very close to a .308.

Jimmy



I know all about paper shooting the 6mmBR.

The original, first line of the thread is, "Any of you guys use the 6mm benchrest caliber for ground hogs?

Does that ring a bell?

A 6mmBR can hit Ground Hogs at a 1,000, but I would not do it - with the long heavy bullets that it takes to get there, they would walk home and die.


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what is the diffrence in the old 6mm and the newer 6mm br?



The "Old 6mm" holds almost twice as much powder as the 6mmBR.

It's about the same relationship as the "old 22-250", and the 222 Rem.

In well built rifles, the "old 6mm Rem" is a 600 to ~1,000 yd ground hog rifle, the 6mmBR is a 400 to ~500 yd ground hog rifle.


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Why would you say that the 6BR is only good to 500 yds?

Do you mean it can't hit them or that if hit it won't kill them? If you check with people that shoot paper, the 6BR holds all kinds of records at 600 and 1000 yds. I just a few minutes ago got back from shooting my Dtech 6BR AR at 600 yds and I was shooting with a guy with a 3 or 4 thousand dollar bolt rifle (6BR) and I shot the same score as he did on the 1st 2 strings of 20 rds. I didn't do as well when the wind started blowing alot, but the rifle was competitive with his high dollar bolt gun. The ballistics of a 6BR is very close to a .308.

Jimmy



I know all about paper shooting the 6mmBR.

The original, first line of the thread is, "Any of you guys use the 6mm benchrest caliber for ground hogs?

Does that ring a bell?

A 6mmBR can hit Ground Hogs at a 1,000, but I would not do it - but with the long heavy bullets that it takes to get there, they would walk home and die.




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That is why I asked my question, because I know nothing about shooting Ground Hogs at all. But you will admit it would hit them, kill them maybe. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Jimmy
 
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Well, everything is relative: I don't think 20 cents extra for gas is "that much" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Comes out to be about $5 more a trip for me. I'm sure there are people out there that finds it hard to come up with the extra coin... Is $5 "that much" to you??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif



WHAT???

What the hell does that have anything to do with anything...
... if you don't like your mileage, get a smaller car and use the $5.00 to by a Cheeseburger.

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Being more relative (at least to your post)...take a quick look at the Nosler #4, Hodgdons website and Reloaders nest (just to name a few, I don't have access to my other manuals at the moment). Not one published maximum even up to 3700 fps and a 70gr bullet. That means I was gracious with the 3700 (I realize each rifle is different and books are "guidelines" but I call published max loads WARM...if you get over that your HOT )



Sorry, not true. Max book loads may not be "max"... the lawyers have made sure of that.

The Hodgdon site has the 70 gr bullet at 3650 (w/24" barrel), at 50,000 psic - 50,000 psic is lower than standard factory pressure.

"Warm" (but not hot) for the 6mm Rem is in the class of 60-Kpsia, and at that pressure, with a 26" barrel, 3800 is easily obtainable... with long case life.

At these same pressures, the 6mmBR will deliver ~3400 fps - that's still 400 fps difference.

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Not saying you can't get 3800 “easily”. But at the same time I get way over 3300 with my BR “easily”. Again, I said warm; not hot... but that is relative also….

So... the way I look at it, with >30% less pop ... more than twice the barrel life... Unless you push the envelope with the 6Rem, DON'T have a rangefinder (you have to rely on flat trajectory), or you MUST have the red mist factor...there is not "that much" gain. I don’t think so & the groundhogs won’t either.



You seem bent on "selling" the 6mmBR - don't waste your time on me, I own two of them, and I own three 6mm Rems. They are all good shooters, and for different situations.

Your argument about powder and barrel life is purely silly - by that same thinking, the 223, the 250 Savage, and the 300 Savage is all we need.

You need a better argument to save face on your original comments...
... and you need a new job to pay for your "$5.00" increase in gas - whatever that was about???


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I have never ever shot a caliber that is as accurate as the 6mmBR. It blows away the 6.5 x284 and the 204 ruger caliber. This 6mmBR shots in the 1's and 2's group size. It makes a great ground hog load out to 700 yards. I would never have believe that such a little case is so effective. It is in fact faster than a 6.5 x284 caliber. It has way less powder than the 6mm and 243 case but burns it better.
 
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6MMbr does everything the 243 and 6mm does with alot less powder and more accurate. I have friends taking ground hogs at 700 yards with this little caliber. I would never have believed it until i bought a custom rifle in this caliber. I am told barrel life is 3000 plus. That's alot of rounds. My load is 31.5 grain of Varget powder, cci match small rifle primers, tight neck case. 70 grain Serria blitz king bullet. Custom rifle build by Harry Suarez,35 power luepold scope with 3x booster. Bullet moving about 3400FPS.
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On the left is 6.5x 284 caliber 2850FPS on the right is 6mmBR 3400fps. 6.5 uses 48 grains and 6mm uses 31 grains. The 6mm BR is faster,more accurate and will do the job on groundhogs out to 700 yards and targets out to 1000 yards. (Bigger is not allways better.) Example, 300 Win mag use to win the 1000 yard matches but now the 6.5 x 284 caliber dominates the 1000 yard winner circle. Less powder, less recoil , less noise and more effective caliber. Short and fat is were is at. lol
 
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"...On the left is 6.5x 284 caliber 2850FPS on the right is 6mmBR 3400fps. 6.5 uses 48 grains and 6mm uses 31 grains. The 6mm BR is faster,more accurate and will do the job on groundhogs out to 700 yards and targets out to 1000 yards.



Something wrong with that statement.

The 6.5x284 is shooting a 140 gr bullet at 2850... a 6mmBR is shooting a 70gr bullet at 3400.

That's comparing apples and, what...

... Jelly Beans ????

A 70 gr bullet from a 6mmBR at 700 yds is very light in the loafers for a 20 pound, hard muscled ground hog.

They deserve a better (and faster) death.

I can hit Ground hogs at 700 with a 223... it doesn't make it right. (But gee, it's leaving the muzzle at 3600 fps!).


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Cat put this in your dictionary-
Relevance- a term used to describe how pertinent, connected, or applicable some information is to a given matter. It has unique significance in a variety of fields.
I was trying to give an example of relevance. Many times the value of relevance differs between opinions. I'm sorry my analogy was wasted.

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I'm sorry... but I can't see your numbers.



I'm glad you went to Hodgdon & SEEN my numbers!

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that's still 400 fps difference


Then were on the same page then... That's what I said in the first place (3700-3300=) 400fps

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In well built rifles, the "old 6mm Rem" is a 600 to ~1,000 yd ground hog rifle, the 6mmBR is a 400 to ~500 yd ground hog rifle.



So 400 fps will give you an extra 500 yards of max range?????????????????????? Your right, I don't need anything more than a 300 Savage.

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I am confident that you are a very good & responsible handloader & shooter. You know what you can & can't do, as I stated earlier, books are guidelines. However, I don't think you should state, on a public forum, that published max loads are not even close to warm /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif My definition of "warm" may differ from yours; but PUBLISHED MAX MEANS ITS GETTING CLOSE. I've seen some published recipes that were too hot for certain rifles (specifically the WSM line). Keep in mind this is a site read by MANY new & inexperienced loaders that crave for speed. Many don't know the difference between the 6 rem & 6br, and your saying its OK to pack powder till the case is full? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
 
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However, I don't think you should state, on a public forum, that published max loads are not even close to warm /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif My definition of "warm" may differ from yours; but PUBLISHED MAX MEANS ITS GETTING CLOSE. I've seen some published recipes that were too hot for certain rifles (specifically the WSM line). Keep in mind this is a site read by MANY new & inexperienced loaders that crave for speed. Many don't know the difference between the 6 rem & 6br, and your saying its OK to pack powder till the case is full? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif





Sorry I didn't dumb down what I said for the new and inexperienced loaders.

So for the new loaders here, I'll state that you should NEVER exceed the listed max in books... but since all of the books have different max loads (Hmmm how do they do that, Hmmm), then you must buy a copy of ALL of the books, and use the lowest max load of all of them, and NEVER exceed it, because it's politically incorrect, and offends some of the members here.

And NEVER pack down powder - even on loads that the books list as compressed... don't EVER use those loads, because they are "packed down", and "packed down" is very bad - that's what coleridge (and Martha Steward) say.

What you missed, coleridge, while you were so desperately trying to save face is that the 6mm Rem, when used with heavy bullets will have close to 500 fps more speed and four times the energy at 1,000 yds than the diminutive 6mmBR with it's 70 gr bullet. And when the 6mmBR is loaded with heavy bullets, they don't have the retained speed to open up at long range, so they are useless at long range except on paper...

... and yes, that DOES make a difference.

And last... while on the subject of "max loads", Sierra lists the max load for the 6mmBR and a 70gr bullet as 3200 fps... just in case you missed that one.

If you actually shot at long ranges, instead of debating out of books, you would know what I am talking about.


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i agree that the 6.5 x284 caliber will do a better job at groundhogs out to 700 yards plus. i am just saying that we are killing hogs out to 700 yards with the 6mmBR. this little caliber supprised me what it can do.
 
The 6 BR was developed by a friend of mine around 1973. I first got my hands on a reamer around 1974, after some trigger time with it, I decided I liked it more than any 6mm I had shot to date. At that time we were using the 6X47 and the 308 Win in the sporter class and the new 6mm BR would blow them away. There was no brass available so we used 243 Win brass to make the 6 BR brass.

About the same time the PPC was being developed and the brass was a lot easier to make. I went to the PPC in 1976 and still use it today in BR matches. The 6 BR has went thru a lot of refinements since the beginning and now the industry standard is called the 6 BR Norma. I still have a sporter chambered in 6 BR Norma and shoot it quite often.
 
did not mean to kick off such a heated debat, but I am completely ignorant in all the 6mm rounds. My father like I said used to be the odd one out because he was shooting the 6mm while all of his friends were shooting .243. He felt and still feels that it is superior to the .243. I was just trying to become a little more edcuated on the subject.
 
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did not mean to kick off such a heated debat, but I am completely ignorant in all the 6mm rounds. My father like I said used to be the odd one out because he was shooting the 6mm while all of his friends were shooting .243. He felt and still feels that it is superior to the .243. I was just trying to become a little more edcuated on the subject.



You did good! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

And no animals were hurt in this debate. I hope. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

Jimmy
 
6mm remington and 243 winchester are great calibers but the short little fat boy 6mmBr blows them away. Sorry 6mm rem and 243 win fans. lol
 
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Cat add this to you vocabulary

Guideline

1)A preferred or advisable course of action, or level of attainment that promotes the achievement goals and objectives

2)Any document that aims to streamline particular processes according to a set routine. By definition, following a guideline is never mandatory (protocol would be a better term for a mandatory procedure). Guidelines are an essential part of the larger process of governance.

3)A recommended limit for a substance or an agent intended to protect human health or the environment that is not legally enforceable

4) Text that provides instructions and advice for performing a task and suggests possible approaches


I never said that it was written in stone or one could not exceed a published max load. If you go back & read I stated they were GUIDELINES… hopefully you know what that is now.
Just don't forget, there are reasons for these & ANY "guidelines".

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don't EVER use those loads, because they are "packed down", and "packed down" is very bad - that's what coleridge (and Martha Steward) say.


Please go back & READ my posts. If you need anymore definitions (meaning of words) let me know. I’ll help you out.


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What you missed, coleridge, while you were so desperately trying to save face is that the 6mm Rem, when used with heavy bullets will have close to 500 fps more speed and four times the energy at 1,000 yds than the diminutive 6mmBR



I’m sorry but I just don’t see your numbers!

From Hodgdon website (you liked that one):
6Rem & 107 MK=3053fps with the fastest load
6mm BR & 107 MK=2649fps with the fastest load

D@MN that’s 400fps AGAIN…
I’m sorry but I just don’t see your numbers!

Run the ballistics program. At 1000 ft elevation & 59 degrees & 50% humidity. The 1000 yard ballistics
6mmRem+3053 MV= 552 Ft/lbs of energy at 1000yards
6mmBR+2649 MV=392 Ft/lbs of energy at 1000yards

THERE IS NOT FOUR TIMES THE ENERGY AT 1000 YARDS (NOT EVEN CLOSE)
I’m sorry but I just don’t see your numbers!

Program says the br has the same energy (and speed) around 775 yards as the 6Rem does at 1000. Why can you shoot one to 1000 but stop the other at 500????
I’m sorry but I just don’t see your numbers!

I'm not trying to save face. Just trying to get yours out of your ____


I never stated that the 6mmRem was not superior ballisticlly. However, it is NO magic bean.

Not sure why you jumped all over my post when I gave a quick attempt to help a beginner understand the difference /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif. I mean, I was only 100fps off were you think the 6Rem should have been. Next time just try to pretend the gun has a 4" shorter barrel /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
 
I shoot a Cooper with a 1 in 10 twist,This gun
shoots 75 & 87 grain Vmax's over some varget very well.For
factory loaded the 90 grain Lapua Sceners are very good also.
 
You are trying to debate something that you don't do, about a cartridge that you don't load or shoot.

To play this little game, you are scrambling around looking for numbers in books to somehow prove you are right, and try to save face.

You started at dumb, and worked your way down to stupid.

Go get a 6mm Rem varmint rifle, and start shooting at long range, and then get back to me.

Until then, you are just blowing hot air like a web twinkie and making a fool out of yourself, and all of your ranting won't change that.


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