25 06 or a 260 for deer hunting

I don't think I've ever heard of anyone refusing to hunt with someone because of the cartridge they are using.

Although I did get a 243WSSM for coyotes and my friend is rather appalled at the howitzer like flame this thing throws at night (so was I), he hasn't refused to hunt with me yet.

I've used a .243Win for nigh onto 35 years, and while I've caught my share of the comments as to how it's under powered for deer, I've done my share of converting people when they see how pinpoint accurate it is and what it does to the deer on the other end. Many deer were looked at by friends to comments like "that doesn't seem so under powered to me", as they were looking at a deer that was dropped right where he stood.
 
Originally Posted By: kyotekiller25

260 will not drop deer as fast as a 25-06, extra velocity the 25 generates gives it a bit more shock, not to mention a little more pop.

I might recommend you switch to the 100 or 115g NBT for little extra penetration.

Nothing wrong with the 260 for deer either, but I could think of 20 other cartridges I'd rather use...Not much a fan of short actions or calibers myself.

Cmon man, really?

I could shoot 1000 deer right in front of you and there is NO WAY you could tell which was shot with a 260 or which with a 25-06. Plus the 260 is larger in diameter and has higher SD and BC in typical bullet weights. Performance would be REALLY, REALLY similar. I mean nearly identical. If you ran a 115gr BT versus a 260 120gr ballistic tip you would NEVER know the difference. If anything, the 260 would have a slight edge in knockdown/penetration if you stepped up in bullet weight to 130-140gr. Run the numbers. I already know.

A BT for added penetration? Seriously? I do not use them on deer specifically for the opposite reason.

I have killed deer with MANY different cartridges. Matter of fact, I have made a point of doing so all my life. Never with a 260. Although I do own one. That said, I have taken MANY deer with my 243s and 7-08s. MANY. Being as the 260 falls right between them, I'd say it would be a top notch deer round.

As for the 223s only being good for "smaller deer", go shoot a nice buck with a 70gr TSX and get back with me.

Sorry bud, you are usually pretty accurate with your assessments, and I know you have some good hunting/shooting experience. But you are way off base on this one IMO. I know you love your 25-06 and it works well for you, but don't try to turn it into something it isn't. Sorry.....



 
Glad you said it ,Ken. I was sure thinking it...
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I'd much rather run a SA myself, even though I have a LA that need shoot'n,soon !

O'yea, BTW....
A 25-06 nor 260 would not be my first choice for jump shooting deer. A big cal with good weight would be better for hitting vitals when starting at the tailend .
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Anything based on the 308 case is as good for deer hunting as it gets IMO. A longer action is unwanted/unneeded IMO.

My bud is strictly a 270/30-06 guy and so was his dad. They used to think their "bigger" cartridges were better than my "samller ones" when I would tote my 7-08s or 243s into camp. They didn't think that for very long though.

I have shot tons of deer with big bore lever guns also. Under 200 yds, I'll take bigger/slower all day long.....
 
Originally Posted By: 2muchgunOriginally Posted By: kyotekiller25

260 will not drop deer as fast as a 25-06, extra velocity the 25 generates gives it a bit more shock, not to mention a little more pop.

I might recommend you switch to the 100 or 115g NBT for little extra penetration.

Nothing wrong with the 260 for deer either, but I could think of 20 other cartridges I'd rather use...Not much a fan of short actions or calibers myself.

Cmon man, really?

I could shoot 1000 deer right in front of you and there is NO WAY you could tell which was shot with a 260 or which with a 25-06. Plus the 260 has higher SD and BC in typical bullet weights. Performance would be REALLY, REALLY similar. I mean nearly identical. If you ran a 115gr BT versus a 260 120gr ballistic tip you would NEVER know the difference. If anything, the 260 would have a slight edge in knockdown/penetration if you stepped up in bullet weight to 130-140gr. Run the numbers. I already know.

A BT for added penetration? Seriously?

I have killed deer with MANY different cartridges matter of fact, I have made a point of doing so all my life. Never with a 260. Although I do own one. That said, I have taken MANY deer with my 243s and 7-08s. MANY. Being as the 260 falls right between them, I'd say it would be a top notch deer round.

As for the 223s only being good for "smaller deer", go shoot a nice buck with a 70gr TSX and get back with me.

Sorry bud, you are usually pretty accurate with your assessments, and I know you have some good hunting/shooting experience. But you are way off base on this one IMO.....



I too have killed a BUNCH of deer with many different cartridges & the 25/06 is a fine deer getter. I hunted with one exclusivly for a few years & shot a lot of deer. I did find the 115BT to be a hard bullet & penetrate well. THe Sierra 117GK was a much quicker killer though. However, the 260 & like (my main deer rifle now is a 6.5x47L which duplicates the 260) does kill them just as fast just as quick as any 25/06 offering. With the bullet only .007" difference dia (that's the width of two hairs from your head) not much difference; it's just the bullet selection available for the 6.5 class bullets (never understood why they hold the .25 to a 10" twist). Look at the ballistics of the 6.5's v/s the .257's... That's why I built a 6.5 instead of a .257.

Also, has anyone ever noticed that their rifle kills extremely better at 25 yards than it does 75 yards??? I mean... the bullet is 100+ fps faster at the closer distance so it must really do a MUCH better job
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(think about that one...) When you are talking high velocities (~3K); +/-100-200fps really doesn't create substaintial killing power difference. I find it funny guys talk about how great their 300 mag kills deer at 400+ yards (at a terminal velocity of under 2K) but wouldn't be caught dead using a 30/30 in the woods (were it would be hitting deer at higher velocities than the 300 at distance).

 
Originally Posted By: 2muchgunOriginally Posted By: kyotekiller25
I might recommend you switch to the 100 or 115g NBT for little extra penetration.


A BT for added penetration? Seriously? I do not use them on deer specifically for the opposite reason.




I think he meant in regards to the 85 bt he was using. It is a thin(ner) jacketed varmint bullet. I agree with you both; I am not a bt fan, but if using one I would go up to the game weights for deer.
 
I would love to take you up on that offer...Lets go shoot 100 deer with each and see how many drop where they stand with each...I"ll bet my life it'll be the 25-06. Just my experience from what I've seen with short and long actions out west.

I"m not trying to make it into something its not, its just about one of the best factory deer cartridges already, I dont need to say much more about it...

In my eyes, its a long action versus a short action with ur right .007" bullet diameter difference, but the 06 still holds a bit more powder and is a bit more powerful.

I myself, have my own opinion on deer rifles and thats probly because of the area we hunt. I have open long shots that usually start at 200 and go on from there. Very rarely do I shoot any game animal inside 300 yards. What do I need a little short action rifle with a 22" bbl for out here??? If I was only gonna be shooting out to 300-400 yards at most, with most shots inside 200 yards, then ya I could see myself with a short action deer cartridge. They'll both kill deer a lot further then most can hit them at either way you look at it. One guy says the 260 is better, one guy says the 25 is better, oh well...

25-06 is not my first choice for a buck buster either, but its a helluva lot better then a 221 fireball LOL. 25-06 is not even my deer caliber anymore because it too still has its limits. I use a 7 mag for all my big game hunting anymore and use the 25-06 for dogs.

The 85g NBT is a VARMINT bullet, the 100 and 115g are DEER bullets. They will and do penetrate better then the 85g. I would have said the 115g but he seems to like and think the 85s work so I said at least go with the 100g version, at least its designed for the task at hand... I've shot deer with all 3, coyotes too...The reason you dont like NBTs is because I get the feeling you shoot deer at typically close range, which is why you use a x bullet...Thats great, again, look at where your hunting and where I'm hunting and the average distance of the game being taken. Is that x bullet gonna work at 800 yards?? I think not...You and I both know theres no perfect bullet, but were getting closer. Maybe you had a bad experience with an NBT? I've had good and bad with barnes x bullets to, I dont like them anymore then you seem to like NBTs lol. However NBT's get a bad rap from people not using them the way they are designed, they have there limits, follow them and they work great, dont and you pay the price. Keep impact under 3000fps and they'll do more then enough on deer, at longer range where the impact velocity has dropped off, they'll still open up nice and penetrate down to 1700-1800fps without having to hit bone to do so. Its a simple accurate bullet with pretty good BC, great mid-long range deer/elk bullets.

I"ve owned a 260 so its not like im sitting here making unbiased assumptions about it. I just dont like short actions, its apparent you dont like long actions for deer hunting. It just doesn't appear or feel like it has the thump of the 25-06 to me anyways.

I never said the 260 wasn't good or wouldn't kill deer, but I do think and believe the 25 does it a bit faster is all.

Truth is, those ding dong friends of the OP dont want to be showed up by the 25 is all
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If some one thinks a 25-06 will drop deer "faster", that's sill. Especially since I have seen and dropped deer out to 300 with a 243 Win.

Both the 25-06 and 260 are more than capable deer rounds. And I wouldn't hesitate to use them for elk, either. There really about twins, as far as deer hunting is concerned.

I shoot a 7 RM for all big game. I bought it while I was young, wanting a big gun..so I still have it. And I have made some tweaks to it. Although, this next deer season, my wife and I will both be shooting 6x45 ARs. And I have no doubts in that round out to 400, with either of us on the trigger.

To sum up my rambling...

These two rounds are too similar with similar weights to dispute on deer.

My personal
 
Just for shitts and giggles I checked them out using the Taylor TKO theory.

I plugged in a 115 gr. .257 bullet @3100 fps and a 130gr .264 bullet @ 2900 fps. Typical deer bullet weights in both.

The 260 scored a 14. the 25-06 scores a 13.

If you used a .264 120 BT vs. a .257 115 gr BT you would have nearly identical performance.

If anything, being as the .264 has typically higher SD, BC, and larger diameter, a 140gr .264 would out score any .25-06 round using this theory. It would have more thump at close range because it is bigger around and heavier. At LONG range, the slower moving 260 would catch up and pass the faster moving 25-06 due to it's higher BC.

That said, there ain't no damm way you could tell the difference between the 2 on a deer kill IME.

If you were to use a larger case (with equal capacity to the 25-06) with the .264 bullet, like a 6.5-06 or 6.5x284, they would/will smoke the 25-06. (That ain't a guess.).

Bottom line is, I think we all agree that either will take deer, handily, a long ways out.

The 7-08 is still better though
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Originally Posted By: Tim NeitzkeIf someone can offer up a few hundred deer that needs kill'n to test these ideas out,I'm in !
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We've got 'em here in the SE... You can't kill but 2 bucks (or 4 depending on what county you’re in) but we have unlimited doe tags & have a target rich environment. However, I would hate for you to have to make the drive all the way from MI. I'll just shoot a few extra for you
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With a good population, I have shot a LOT of deer with about every cartridge, especially 7mag (my primary rifle for years when I was really trigger happy). When I got a 25/06 I was amazed it killed deer just as good as the 7Rem. Then I kept getting smaller… Even killed many deer with a variety of .22 cals & they work just fine with good shots. Just does not have enough “ummpth” with shoulder shots on big deer. However with “bow style” shots it’s VERY effective. Step up to the 243Win & it works really well with more room for a little shooter error, but still is a little light for heavy bone shots (but it's just as good as any cartridge when shooting double lung). Then I went back up & shot deer with everything all the way to the 300Rum. Not that it doesn’t work well; you just don't need it (& it beats you to death)... Come full circle & I have found the .25, .26" cartridges are about perfect (yea, the 7mm family is GREAT too, but not needed).

Once you start shooting long range, you get into marginal shot placement on game. That’s when the larger, heavier bullets (from 7mag, & big 300’s) show an advantage (but only because you not hitting them were your supposed to). With good shots (long or short range) the 25/26 cal cartridges are every bit as effective on deer. The reason I lump the 25 & 26 together is they are VERY similar. To say one kills deer (with similar bullets) better than the other is confusing to me… Lets look at them on paper.

From Hodgdon Reloading Center

Fastest 25/06 with 120gr bullet……3065 fps
Fastest 260 with 120gr bullet……….2968 fps

YOU CAN NOT TELL 100FPS DIFF IN THE FIELD!

As for the “long action” and all that extra case capacity… Lets look closer at the averages for the two cartridges….

Again, looking again at the Hodgdon Reloading center with 120 gr Bullets (referenced it because everyone reading this with internet access can check it)

Powder.....260..............25/06.........Difference
H1000......51.0/2810.......55.5/2902......4.5/92fps
S 780......48.5/2862.......53.0/298.......4.5/122 fps
H 100v.....45.0/2934 ......50.0/3009......5.0/75fps
H4831......50.0/2954.......51.5/2856......1.5/-98
Imr 4831...44.0/2885.......53.0/3065......9.0/180fps
Imr4350....46.5/2960...... 52.0/3049......5.5/89fps
H4350......46.5/2960.......47.5/2816..... 1.0/-144fps
Varget.....39.0/2877.......41.0/2755......2.0/-122fps

Yes that is correct… With certain powders the 260 is FASTER than the 25/06 with LESS powder (case capacity is not always a good thing).

The above data references all the MAX load listings. In summary the 25/06 is an average of 25 FPS faster with an average of 4.1 gr more powder. Can you explain one more time how the LA 25/06 is such a better deer killer???

Just because you are using a short action doesn’t mean it has to be a 22” barrel. Run a 26” 260 against a 24” 25/06 & the velocities of the 260 will likely equal or exceed the 25/06. Not sure how the bigger 26 caliber bullet is less effective…??? Step up to the higher BC .26cal bullets & the 260 is much better than the 25/06 past 500 yards. Makes you wonder why carry that longer, heavier L/A gun??? I'd be really carefull what you put up for wadger in a bet like this...
 
I have both (if you count the 6.5x55 as an equivalent to the 260) and I would take either. I just haven't used my 25-06 into the field for deer season. That doesn't mean it won't kill them.

Use you're 25-06. If they don't like what you shoot, they'll get over it. Or you'll find new friends...
 
Will you run the numbers on a 25-06, with a 85 grain Nosler at 3600 fps. and compare that to the 260 with a light bullet at say normal hunting ranges, say 400 and under.

For long range, I've taken the Berger 115 VLD at 3050 fps. to 1000, and it will do the job, but there are better choices.

If I might be shooting at a running deer, I take a 30-06.
 
When you compare different calibers some will handicap one caliber, by compairing the heaviest bullet that you can shoot in one, to the lightest bullet in the other. To me each should be evaluated at where each one shines the best, and not everyone wants the best at 1000 yards. Some may want the best rifle at 300. Some want flat and fast, some want big and high BC's. To say one is better than another, may depend on circumstances.
 
Quote:I would love to take you up on that offer...Lets go shoot 100 deer with each and see how many drop where they stand with each...I"ll bet my life it'll be the 25-06.
This is an absolutely ludicrous statement......



Quote:Just my experience from what I've seen with short and long actions out west. killed my first elk with a 243 and many critters since with both sa and la- not sure what the action length has to do with it. What if you build a sa round in a la receiver, does it automatically make it more powerful?




Quote:22 cals will kill does and smaller bucks if there unalarmed and thats about it
So a 22 cal bullet wont kill a big buck if its unalarmed? Funny, I thought a bullet in the vitals was fatal regardless of slight size difference. All the deer I've shot with a 22-250 in Montana didn't get that memo.......and holy crap its both short action, and the 22-250 is a 22cal so that 2 reasons it shouldn't work
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I agree usually your post and advice is top notch but don't know what happened here
 
Originally Posted By: kyotekiller25Try jumping a big buck in the trees or sagebrush and tell me you think the little 221 fireball will put em down...I think not...Unless you were to get lucky and hit him in the head or neck, you'll be wishing you had something a little bigger...

22 cals will kill does and smaller bucks if there unalarmed and thats about it. Not something you want to take out hunting if your looking for a bigger buck and have one jump up in front of you.



LOL, must be some tough deer out there....Buck Norris...
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I kid, I kid

I have no dog in this as I use neither, but I can't resist throwing in my 2cents. I use a .243 with v max bullets from 100-300 yds; no, they don't leave an exit wound, but they ain't hard to track when they're dead before the recoil impulse is. My hunting buddy uses a .270, and loses several deer almost every year
 
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