.224 Texas Trophy Hunter

pyledriver

New member
I was reading about the .224TTH yesterday. Supposedly this caliber is like a ray gun on deer and everything else that you point the rifle at. I'm wondering if they're being a little too generous, but it did get my interest.

A 75gr Hornady Amax bullet traveling at around 3800fps sounds like a helluva coyote load but apparently they're prescribing that as big medicine on deer as well as hogs! They didn't mention coyotes BTW...

I got to checking around and saw some reloading data for the .25-06 that shows a 75gr bullet reaching 3800fps and wondered--if the .224 with a 75gr bullet is supposedly so good for deer then why couldn't I load up a .25-06 with the load I mentioned above and call it good for everything?

Just a thought. I'm still kickin' around building a custom bolt gun in either .25-06 or maybe .25-06AI... :rolleyes:
 
A friend of mine is a gunsmith who has built a couple a the .224 TTH's. He says he used the same loading data for the .220 Swift.

I don't know what bullet weight he was using though, but I will imagine it was for prairie dogs, so I will e-mail him and find out and let you know.

The .224 TTH is a 6 MM necked down to .224 dia. He specifically said not to use the reloading data for the 6 MM for the .224 TTH
 
A couple of years ago, it seemed all the custom makers here were building rifles for the 224 TTH. Everyone was predicting that it would become a factory load, but then it appears to have been superceded by the 223 and 243 WSSMs, which basically will give you the same results.
 
Thanks guys! I don't do much research on different calibers, but sometimes something just catches my eye.

It sounded a little too good to be true really...

I like the idea of a little more power for big critters than my .223 has. I'll probably get an Encore one day and LOTS of barrels! Besides, I need to have a rifle to use on those places that have EBR prejudice!
 
First I don't know nothing about this round but my thoughts are a heavy for caliber bullet made for penetration with a barrel twist to stabilize it and minimal recoil going 3800fps should equal a high ballistic coefficient, for the lazer like trajectory, sectional density for it's killing ability, and accuracy that can be reached by just about anyone that will allow the bullet to hit where it needs to. It just might make a heck of a deer caliber but of course us varmint hunters will want to stuff a 40 grain bullet into it and drive it around 6000 fps, then of course it'll just be another barrel burner.
 
pyledriver,
I have a buddy who shoots a few coyotes with a 25-06. It's a wonderful, long range caliber. I would highly recommend it if you weren't concerned about keeping pelts. It's rather hard on them to say the least.
 
ive shot the 224 TTH for the last 5 yrs. i use the 80 sierras mainly at 3300 to 3400 fps. 3700 in my opinion and experience is out of reach w/ the 80s. not sure about the 75s. but the 224TTH is a very capable and accurate round that will out perform the 25-06 in all aspects. considering the 224 TTH is loaded w/ 80 sierras at least 3300fps. low recoil, high bc, hits hard and kills great. with all this said the 22-243 is a better choice and will out perform the 224 TTH with the heavey bullets.
building the 224TTH on a short action is not a good idea. seating depth magazine length conflict.
 
Both the 224TTH and the 22-243 make fantastic long range rounds for deer etc. Shooting 10 rounds a year a barrel will outlive you. Just don't even think about using them for any high volume shooting. Those big cases and fast twist barels will start blowing up bullets at around 500 rounds, less if you get them hot.

Jack
 
Just ran those #'s across Exbal-- the 75 A-Max @ 3400 mv would get to the lower post of Burris's Ballistic Mil-Dot reticle (14.5 MOA) at an amazing 825 yds. with a 100 yd zero-- when most other "flat-shooting" cartridges would get there at only 700 or so.

With a 250 yd. zero it would get to 875 yds. with 14.5 Min. of correction and only 2.1" max ordinate-- phenomenal.

1 mph of wind tho would blow the bullet off 4-5" @ around 850 or so. BUT that's still 1 amazing combination-- gonna have to gets me 1 of those-- actually i'd probably opt for the WSSM version tho.
 
ssscoyote, good info, i am building a remington 700 titanium with a pacnor 3 groove ss super match fluted barrel in 22-250 ai. i think the 3400 fps is achievable. plan to work around the 75 gr amax and 65 gr sierra game king.
lets see if the coyotes will run out there to 500-600 yards and bark at me.
 
I shoot the 224tth for deer, coyotes, and groundhogs. I have a 26" brl 1/9 twist. I shoot the 69 gr MK for everything. The load is 47gr RL19 and a WLR primer. It will shoot the 69gr MK at 3650 and the 75 Amax with the same load at 3600fps. This is my third year for the rifle. I have about 300 rounds down it so far. I am VERY pleased so far with it performance on game.

longshot
 
Very interesting posts guys. I had one of these built this summer using a Savage LA and a 223 1/9 twist take off bbl with approx 250 rds thru it. Got about another 250 rds thru it and had bullets not making it to the target. Looked at the bbl with a Hawkeye borescope, not much for rifling the first couple of inches from the chamber. Never pushed the envelope on this, just worked up slowly looking for the best accuracy w/o pressure. The guy that talked me into this and guided me has had several of these rifles. He's gone well over 3000 rds with most of his. Don't know what happened with mine, but I figure on going again, this time with a stainless PacNor or SSS Douglas bbl this time. As they say, "better luck next time"! Greg
 
"The guy that talked me into this and guided me has had several of these rifles. He's gone well over 3000 rds with most of his."

You need to talk to someone else.

Your experience with barrel life is rather typical, about average.

Anybody claiming 3000 rounds with these chamberings and barrels either can't count or is dreaming.

I can usually get 500 rounds from a 22-250AI. To expect more is just wishful thinking.

Jack
 
I agree with Jack on this. The 8 twist .22-250AI I mentioned above was a Lilja 3 groove, and I only got 700 rounds out of it.

- DAA
 
Only 500-700 rounds? I'd forget about anything that burned barrels up that fast. I think the answer to this question is the 220 Howell. Here's some info. from the horse's mouth so to speak in regards to 220 howell vs. the 220 swift.

Re: Most accurate long range varminter? [Re: fryguy]
#16124 - 06/30/01 11:06 AM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



"On a quiet day, the Swift is difficult to beat, even way out there."
No longer true. The Swift is still as great a cartridge as it ever was, but now there's a bigger, stronger, and smarter kid in that family. There's now a .220 cartridge that was specifically designed to outdo the Swift, and it does exactly that. Its case capacity is about 29% greater than the Swift's, but it isn't intended for either the lighter bullets or the higher pressures of the Swift. It uses a 50% heavier bullet, with a larger charge of a slower powder.

It isn't a scaled-up Swift. It's more like a scaled-down .25-06.

The muzzle velocity of the factory (Remington) Swift with a 50-grain Hornady is (IIRC) 3,780 ft/sec, presumably at the SAAMI maximum pressure — about 60,000 lb/sq in. The muzzle velocity of the .220 Howell, with the 75-grain Hornady A-Max, loaded to the much gentler 50,000 lb/sq in. for longer barrel life and generally better performance, is about 3,500-3,600 ft/sec. At about 180-190 yards, the velocity of the 50-grain from the Swift and the 75-grain from the Howell is the same. Beyond that range, the 75-grain from the Howell is increasingly faster than the 50-grain from the Swift.

The 75-grain has a significantly higher ballistic coefficient than the 50-grain and is 50% heavier, so its trajectory, resistance to wind deflection, and delivered energy are far better than the Swift's 50-grain — or any other bullet at Swift velocities. The Swift, obviously, can't drive the 75-grain at anything near the velocity that it gets routinely from the 29% larger case.

Designed around the 75-grain Hornady A-Max (or 80-grain Berger or Sierra) and IMR-7828, the .220 Howell turns out to be at its best with IMR-7828 or Ramshot Magnum (formerly "Big Boy") powders. IMR-4831, for example, is too fast.

The grand old Swift stands up to the .220 Howell pretty well at short range (except in delivered energy) but rapidly falls behind at long ranges.

And remember, the .220 Howell outperforms the Swift at peak pressures 10,000 lb/sq in. LOWER than the Swift's — for longer case and barrel life and usually better round-to-round consistency. Your rifle is more likely to be accurate at 50,000 lb/sq in. than at 60,000 lb/sq in.

BTW, although this cartridge bears my name (because I designed it), I have not, do not, and will not ever get a cent out of it. My satisfaction with my .220 Howell rifles and your satisfaction with yours are my only returns on this cartridge.

Which suits me just fine Re: Most accurate long range varminter? [Re: Eagleye]
#16127 - 06/30/01 09:48 PM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



"Since the 220 Howell is, at least for now, a handloaders proposition, comparing the rather anemic 50 gr Swift factory load is not really fair."
--- Yes, it is fair, since the factory Swift load is an established and published safe standard for comparison. It is indicative of what SAAMI maximum pressures produce with a 50-grain bullet in the Swift. As for its being "a handloader's proposition for now," two points:
(a) Any varmint cartridge that gets much use is sooner or later a handloader's proposition, even though factory ammo is available.
(b) The .220 Howell is a factory cartridge. I prefer handloading it, and I believe that most who shoot it are also handloaders, but it IS, indeed, a factory-loaded cartridge.
"Any 26" Swift I have ever owned will easily break 4000 FPS within safe pressure limits with the 50 grainer."
--- I must contest this claim. Loads that produce 4,000 ft/sec are NOT within safe pressure limits. Also, loads that depend on maximum and over-maximum pressures erode barrels MUCH faster. In the .224 barrel, these pressures erode throats 8.9% faster than the same pressures in a .244 barrel. Longer barrel life is one of the basic reasons for the design of the .220 Howell — to use pressures no higher than about 50,000 lb/sq in. instead of the 60,000 lb/sq in. of the SAAMI maximums and the 70,000 lb/sq in. (and higher) of the handloads that produce 4,000 ft/sec.

"... those long bullets in the Howell require very quick twists to stabilize,..."
True but not a liability. Nine inches is about right.

"... which often create rather quick pressure rises if one isn't careful with load development."
--- Not at all. With the powders best suited to the .220 Howell, the pressure curves rise less steeply, peak more gradually and longer, and diminish less abruptly. With the faster powders in the Swift, the pressure curve rises more steeply, peaks sharply, then drains rapidly. Besides, with the pressure peak 10,000 lb/sq in. lower than the Swift's, there's a much wider margin of safety above the Howell's curve, enough to absorb any weird peak much more safely than would be the case with the Swift.

"Will this ever become a factory cartridge, Ken?"
--- It already is. Always has been, from Day One. Rifles, cases (headstamped "220 Howell"), ammo, and dies are available from American Hunting Rifles (AHR) — see http://www.hunting-rifles.com — but I prefer to make my own brass from new Winchester .25-06 cases. Reamers are available from a number of companies (Pacific Precision Grinding and Manson Reamers, to name two, and I can provide dimensioned drawings to any other reamer-maker at no cost on request), and a number of gun-makers are already making .220 Howell rifles and rebarreling customers' rifles for this cartridge.

I planned and designed this cartridge very carefully, relying on interior-ballistics basics not usually considered by cartridge designers these days. I designed it to be exactly what it is, and fortunately, it works exactly as I planned it. Unfortunately for shooters who are just becoming aware of it, its interior-ballistics basics are not familiar, not obvious, not repeatedly printed in the sporting-arms literature. So it defies a lot of "conventional wisdom" that's based on other criteria (much of it wrong to begin with). Yet it's very simple, very straight-forward, once you get past the haze of "conventional wisdom."
 
Jack: I've been sitting here in front of the computer for the last 20 min trying to think how to respond to your post. Still not sure how. Does make me wish I wouldn't have made any comment at all, but this is a public forum isn't it? The fella in question has been involved in firearms and related industries for years. I realize in some peoples cases, this in no way means they know what they're doing. However, I and everyone (and I do mean literally everyone) that has ever done business with him, feels that if he doesn't know the answer to a question, then you'll be hard pressed to find an answer. I know, sounds like a god doesn't he? All I'm trying to say is, after being around him for the last 30 years, he has my complete trust and respect. As for the 3000 round statement, I know 2 other people who have built the 22-6mm. One has close to 2000 rounds thru his. The other had bad luck with his first one, only got 1700 rounds thru it. His second one has beat that and still going strong. In all honesty, even tho I know these guys fairly well, I can't vouch for the numbers, but don't think they'd have any reason to lie. Anyway, I guess from now on I'll keep my comments to myself. It's a lot easier to just read and not write. Greg
 
Greg,
Hey no problem. Glad to have other input.

I only report my experience. Barrel life is a very subjective topic. Some people will tolerate a lot more than others. When I get the first blowup I toss the barrel also I toss a barrel if it takes many shots to settle down after cleaning.

Many people will tolerate occasional blowups for a long time. In hunting situations many do not even realize they are having blowups. It is easy to just think you missed.

I do not doubt that you can occasionally get 3000 accurate rounds from a 22-6mm. If you will put up with blowups and having to fire a bunch of fouling shots.

I have retired a lot of fast twist barrels both in 224 and 6mm. None was ever retired for lack of accuracy. It was usually blowups, but sometimes requiring too many fouling shots to settle down.

Jack
 
Jack, i respect your opinion and i have had blow ups in my 22-6mm w/1-8 twist krieger barrel. but these few have come when i was exsperimenting w/light jacketed bullets [J4] at high pressure's and velocities even w/ new barrels. if people will take care of and keep clean their rifles and use the sierras 80's or 69's not to mention scirocco 75's then blow ups wont be a factor.
i shoot mine in f-class 17rnds in 20 min. and shot it at granfield sniper training course [200 rnds in two 1/2 dys. to be blunt i have abused this gun and it still shoots and doesnt give blow ups w/ proven loads. i retired it from f class at 2000 rnds and it was still winning it is now replaced w/ a heavet 22-243 1-8 twist and im shooting the 22-6mm as a hunting rifle w/great success total rnds 2300 and no signs of problems yet and as a hunting rifle it will last quite a while. ive shot a bunch of different rounds and this 80 sierra at 3300 to 3500 is awsome across the board .
one thing to look at if you are conserned about barrel life is the 22XC 1-8 twist 80 sierra's 258 neck ??????????????
 
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