223AI for PD's - ideal twist rate?

IAyoteHNTR

IAyoteHNTR

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I'm trying to decided what twist rate I would want for my ultimate Prairie Dog (for me anyway) rifle build I plan on doing. I want this rifle to be able to handle 500+ yd shooting so I'm wondering if I should go to a 1-7 twist or will a 1-8 twist give me a wider range of bullets to work with along with some heavier 69-70 grain bullet offerings?

Waiting to hear from you expert Prairie Doggers who actually use a 223AI.
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Thanks.
 
I have a .223AI and I don't use any bullets heavier than 50 grain. I have taken several prairie dogs out past 500 yards with it and one a smidge over 700 yards (in my avatar) a few years back. Because 90% of the time it is used for ground squirrels I have a 1-14" twist so that it will best handle 40-50 grain bullets. The gun was originally a .223 with a 1-9" twist but it did not like the 40 grain bullets all that well so I went for a slower twist for my AI.

If all was ever going to do was to use it for pasture poodles then I bet I would use a faster twist such as the 1-8" so that I could use up to 75 grain bullets in it. But for me, just building a prairie dog only gun is not very practical, even though I would like to have one.
 
Since I already have my 20 Practical for the 32-40 grain bullets I'm really leaning towards something that I can push the 60-75 grain bullets with so I'll probably get a 1-8 twist barrel as this rifle could possibly be used for some long range coyote sniping as well.
 
Definitely the 1 in 8. Although I don't have any problems shooting 75 grn through a 1 in 9 with a standard .223. I'm sure it's right on the edge.
 
Got my 6X45 Upper and accy's sold today for $800 and was watching an auction on Gunbroker for a gun I really wanted that ended today and low and behold I was able to get it for $765! So now I have my donor rifle for my .223AI build. It's this one ........ Savage 12 VLPDBM .223 1-7 twist
 
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In a .223AI, the best twist for this caliber to run the gamut of bullet weights is a 1/8. This will give you the ability to run the 75 AMAX for the long shots and the lighter 50gr bullets for the close in shots.

On my .223AI, I went with a Rock 5R 1/8 22" barrel and it bugholes the 75 AMAX.
 
Originally Posted By: IAyoteHNTRGot my 6X45 Upper and accy's sold today for $800 and was watching an auction on Gunbroker for a gun I really wanted that ended today and low and behold I was able to get it for $765! So now I have my donor rifle for my .223AI build. It's this one ........ Savage 12 VLPDBM .223 1-7 twist

Nice. I have that model in .243 and so far it's a 1/2 MOA gun. Still working on loads though. I would shoot it first before getting a new barrel. It might be a shooter?
 
Originally Posted By: desertcjOriginally Posted By: IAyoteHNTRGot my 6X45 Upper and accy's sold today for $800 and was watching an auction on Gunbroker for a gun I really wanted that ended today and low and behold I was able to get it for $765! So now I have my donor rifle for my .223AI build. It's this one ........ Savage 12 VLPDBM .223 1-7 twist

Nice. I have that model in .243 and so far it's a 1/2 MOA gun. Still working on loads though. I would shoot it first before getting a new barrel. It might be a shooter?

I am probably going to have my smith ream it to Ackley Improved and shoot it and see how it shoots before I order another barrel.
 
One thing you need to remember, if the chamber is throated for 75's, you will have a very long leade. With this long leade, you will probably not be able to touch the lands with any brand of 55g Bullet, and perhaps not even the 60g V max will not have a lot of bullet left in the case when it touches the lands.

This is the problem that 22 caliber owners face on this issue, because none on of the factory or custom 22 caliber Centerfires that I have owned or had built over the years shot 1/2" groups or less with the bullet very far off the lands.

Don't let yourself get snookered into thinking that one throat will fit all. I had rather have a shorter throat and stuff the 75g bullet down in the case, put it to your Smith that way. I doubt if he has a variety of reamers, and may not want to use a unithroater made by PT&G.
 
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Thanks for the info ackleyman. I'm going to check how the chamber is set up as it sets right now for some 55's I have on hand as I may just shoot this as is for now and see if I can get 1/2" MOA or less with the 55-60 grain bullets because if it does, and I'm satisfied with the speed I can achieve, then I may just shoot it this way w/o having it reamed to AI, but I like the idea of the possible increase in speeds and what the 40 deg Ackley shoulder will do for my brass.
 
Everyone keeps saying 1:8 but a 75 grain bullet will not maximize your SPLAT factor like a 40 or 50. YES they do better in the wind, but I have a 6AI I shoot when it gets windy. I built a 223AI specifically for shooting Pdogs, that's it (I go a lot). I have much better results with acrobats with a 50 vmax out of a 1:14 twist than I do with a 65-75 grain out of a 1:8. For an "all around" rifle, the 1:8 is more practical. For a straight up prairie dog rifle, I wouldn't shy away from those 40-50 grain pills and a 1:14 twist.

IF your dead set on 500+ the light bullets and slow twist aren't going to work out the greatest. Honestly only 4 or 5% of my Pdog shooting is ever that far. I LIKE THE ACROBATS!
 
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Originally Posted By: Lefty SRHAre you dead set on the .233 AI?

No, not dead set on it but will probably end up that way whether I ream the barrel on the gun now, or use it for a while and maybe order an aftermarket barrel in 223AI. I already have the .223AI dies.
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I have my 20 cal, a 20 Practical and wanted a 22 cal but didn't want a barrel burner like the 22-250.

The more I handle this Model 12 VLPDBM, the more I fall in love with it.
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I'm thinking about trying to find another stock just like it to slap on my 20 Practical as well.
 
If your looking for other calibers too,might want to take a look at the 22BR. I have a 223AI and two 22BR's.Of the two calibers,I prefer the 22BR.
 
Originally Posted By: 1up5downIf your looking for other calibers too,might want to take a look at the 22BR. I have a 223AI and two 22BR's.Of the two calibers,I prefer the 22BR.

Not looking to step into a different caliber this year but I might next year. I'm familiar with the 6BR since I used to shoot one and the 22BR would be tempting to have for sure.
 
Originally Posted By: BWBEveryone keeps saying 1:8 but a 75 grain bullet will not maximize your SPLAT factor like a 40 or 50. YES they do better in the wind, but I have a 6AI I shoot when it gets windy. I built a 223AI specifically for shooting Pdogs, that's it (I go a lot). I have much better results with acrobats with a 50 vmax out of a 1:14 twist than I do with a 65-75 grain out of a 1:8. For an "all around" rifle, the 1:8 is more practical. For a straight up prairie dog rifle, I wouldn't shy away from those 40-50 grain pills and a 1:14 twist.

IF your dead set on 500+ the light bullets and slow twist aren't going to work out the greatest. Honestly only 4 or 5% of my Pdog shooting is ever that far. I LIKE THE ACROBATS!

This is ME! I am there for the air. No, not the air that I breathe but the "air time" that I can get with pasture pups when using highly frangible bullets. Shooting one dead is one thing. Shooting one dead and watching him explode in a kaleidoscope of colors is another! Yeehaw!

And for this reason the heaviest bullets that I even use anymore for this type of shooting are the 50 grain. Usually the Nosler Ballistic Tips or the Hornady Vmax. Had too many dragaways with match bullets. Shoot great but not much happens when you shoot something with it.

I am now just a few weeks away from what I shoot most and that is our local ground squirrels and 40-50 grain bullets out of any .224 bore gun are ideal for them. But after several years of using them on prairie dogs I have to confess that they are my favorite for them as well. Especially after making kills out as far as 700 yards.

Going to load some more 50 grainers in my .220 Swift here in a little bit. Hard to argue with success.
 
I'm hoping that either the Hornady 53 grain V-Max or 55 grain Nosler BT will shoot well out of this gun so I can still get the "air" time as well.
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I'm not for sure, but will a 1:8 twist stabilize a 55 effectively? I shoot them very well out of a 1:9 twist 223 around 3180 FPS (I think, my book is at home) so I would guess you would be alright, but before dropping money on a barrel I would talk to someone with experience shooting 55's out a 1:8 twist, just so you're not disappointed after the fact.
 
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