.223: Why have 40 grain bullets fallen out of grace for coyotes??

Smesh

Smesh

New member
Back in the 80's to mid 90's, I did a fair bit of coyote hunting with a short barreled .222 Remington Mohawk using .40 grain bullets. At the end, it was pretty much Nosler BT's. I ended up selling the rifle when Nosler introduced the 6mm 55 grain BT, and got into building rifles around that bullet.

Now I've purchased an AR for coyotes, and it's the first time I've used a .22 centerfire for hunting in a long time. It seems everyone is using 55 grain bullets, but I don't get why. As my cloudy memory serves, the .40's were pretty awesome for coyotes, and also for ground squirrels like Pdogs gophers, ground hogs, etc. Why aren't more people using them? I admit I'm a speed demon, and while I have some long range fast twist rifles, and have done some 1000 yard work, for critters at most hunting ranges, I've found speed kills better, and excess speed has a way of compensating for wind drift within hunting ranges.

Why the movement towards 55's? It doesn't really make sense to me.
 
I have found that heavier bullets kill better. 40s work OK, 55s better, and 60+ even betterer. Personal experience differs, but I really dont have much of a use for anything below 50gr, and even the 50s are very limited for me. My current bullet of choice for everything from Crow to Deer is the 63gr Sierra SMP.
 
Originally Posted By: liliysdad
My current bullet of choice for everything from Crow to Deer is the 63gr Sierra SMP.



You must have some bigassed crows in Oklahoma if they need a 63gr heavy jacketed hunting bullet....

.... our little east cost crows blow up in a cloud of feathers with a 50gr SBK or V-Max.


 
No, our crows arent any bigger than normal, and I dont need that bullet to kill them....but they just shoot so [beeep] well I dont see a need to change bullets for different game.
 
I ran 40 g bullets on coyotes/pdogs since the 70s. I went to 55s in the early 90s just because they carry better to 800 yards and less drift.
40g for coyote is darned good, but you know many shooters have the mind thought they need heavier bullets to do the same job older shooters have done w/light ones.
 
Hunting here in my area, there is a lot of cover and there are lots of angles shots. The dogs don't give a lot of straight frontal or standing broadside shots. We always seem to get them moving or odd angles. I like the 55g Sierra Game Kings since they seem to do a consistently good job penetrating from odd angles.
 
Smesh.. are you having to use non lead in the areas that you hunt? I have had good success with the 40's in my 223. But I can use lead Bullets here. The Vmax, as well as the Nosler BT's have worked well. But then again these days we buy what we can find. I like the 40's a lot, but where you live a non lead 40 may not be too good depending upon your twist of barrel.
 
I found that the 40 grain pills gave me a lot of splash hits with the higher velocity. Now I use the 53 grain V-maxes and they hammer them.
 
For you 40g guys, if you will try the Sierra 40g HP, you will be very happy in not having a splash effect on coyotes. These bullets were designed while Sierra was in Santa Fe Springs, Ca for the Los Angles police dept as a sniper round in the 22/250. This bullet would not over peneterate a bad guys thick skull and kill neighbors on the next street.

The 40g Sierra Hp is a very accurate bullet for any varmint in fast twist barrels also. If you like 3800 fps in a 223, then AA2015 and N-133 with thick cup primers are the key.

If you like not blowing large holes in foxes, then this bullet loaded with blue dot will "get'er done" with minimal damage at 3000 fps.

Coyotes have a lot of will to live, they take a lot of killing. Shot placement is the key, and you need to break the diaphragm with hydrostatic shock to put them down right there on the spot. The vast majority of all coyotes that I have shot and seen killed are shot within 175 yards and most of them within 80 yards while hunting in Mexico, Ca, and Az., the region of the country that you hunt in may vary.

While we are on the subject of 40g bullets, Sierra makes a 45g high velocity sp that is simply unreal accurate, very destructive on squirrels, coyotes, crows that is a very good alternative.

Since Nosler came out with the Ballistic tip, seems like everyone wants a poly tip of some kind. Some of the old time bullets that Sierra, Hornady, and speer makes are still stellar in performance. I wonder how we killed all those hundreds of coyotes in the 80's and 90's with just spitzer and HP bullets that are still around today?

You have to remember that P.O. Ackley made the 220 swift famous when he was a Highway Patrolman dispatching deer with a 220 Swift shooting 45g Spt at 4000 fps. I think that I am correct in this statement, I am sure that Catshooter can correct me if I am incorrect.

All this stuff about bullets is fun stuff to try in your rifle, main thing is to get out and shoot your rifle and gain confidence in your ability.

When I have a new barrel installed, I have the gunsmith use a reamer with zero freebore with a 1 1/2* leade angle used to cut the new chamber. Then, any short(light bullet) will still have plenty of "grip" in the neck of the case and still be able to touch the lands. Pac Nor does a particular good job on this type of chamber at no additional charge.

If you want to blow a coyote in half, then the 45g Sierra at 4400 fps with H380 is not out of the question with a custom 22/250 AI....drive a Corvair or a a Corvette? Had you rather get 26 mpg and break down once a month on the interstate or drive a Corvette and pick up the blonds with daddy issues?
 
40gr Vmax works awesome on coyotes, it hammers them with authority.

Some people go for bigger bullets and bigger calibers to compensate for poor shot placement. Kinda like using a 300 WinMag on a 150 lb deer.
 
Im not entirely sure how you equate a heavier bullet of the same caliber to something like your example, but to each their own. A gut shot coyote is gut shot, regardless of what bullet you are using.

I have had poor luck with thin jacketed "varmint" bullets on coyotes. Lots of wounding shots, splash injuries, etc. I have yet to have anything similar with bullets like the Sierra Game King or SMP. Even run of the mill 55gr SP bulk bullets have yielded better results, for me, that lighter, faster bullets.
 
I agree on the gut shot coyote example. When I hunted for fur, the 40 grains bullets were hard to beat and if hit right most were dead right there. And we're talking big CDN coyotes. I also hunted with 75 Sierra HP out of a .25 cal wildcat. It did the same and was still very fur friendly. I then got into 6mm rifles when 55 Nosler ballistic tips came out and stayed there quite a while, but I had nerf ball exit holes on broadside double-lunged dogs. Pushing that bullet over 4100 FPS was not difficult from a hot 6mm Rem or .243 AI. It didn't really matter where I hit them, unless center in the guts. I have had a few dogs get up and run with their guts hanging out behind them, but even that was rare and I don't remember one getting away with any of my 6mm's shooting 55 grain bullets at over 4000. I can't say that for 6mm's with larger bullets. Make a bad shot on a coyote with a 95 BT and it might run off, but breaking 4000 just seemed like it was magic on yotes.

I shot 107 Sierras out of my .243 AI HB for a spell for real long stuff, and while it shot virtually one hole groups when fed single shot, those 55's over 4000 were just crazy fun on coyotes. Now before you mention the Sierras not being for coyotes, I killed plenty with them, but I only mention them, because getting crazy accuracy, being able to almost ignore wind drift and being able to shoot coyotes reliably at bragging ranges, is almost as satisfying as a coyote looking like it got hit by a telephone pole from the 55's. It was even cooler for me than a successful super-long shot.

My AR is a 1:9, but I think I'm going to try some 40's if I can find them. In my experience the solid base design of the NBT provides a bit better penetration. The V-Max blow up more completely, so the NBT should be a good happy medium while keeping the speed up. I have never seen a splash hit on a coyote with a .40 out of something as slow as my old .222 (almost the same velocity as .223), so I can't imagine a splash with a 40 out of a .223. No offense, but I think that's something I'll have to see with my own eyes.

I also think that people worry too much about the wind. The difference in wind drift between a 40 and 55 grain bullet with corrected velocities is not that great in my experience within actual hunting ranges most people kill coyotes while calling. The significant extra speed has a way of compensating for the wind and lower bullet BC. Spotting and shooting at long range is a totally different animal.
 
I've had some nice success with the 40 gr bullets out of a couple of my rifles. Mostly DRT performance with a .204 and .223. They shoot well too.
 
Orneryolfart357:

I haven't hunted much in CA so far. On the 27th, my 17 year old son is flying in from Winnipeg, Canada and on the 28th, we're driving to Globe, AZ for a little reunion hunt. He won the PM hunt in 2006 with most critters killed. He was 10 years old at the time and killed 3 coyotes and a javelina in the 3 day hunt. I know so little about California, that I need to get out here more to hunt yotes. I've scouted several areas outside the lead free zones, but then with the new law being phased in and so many people saying that individual wardens seem to be enforcing the law early, with no real consistency or anything firm in writing, I'd rather just hunt outside CA for now unless I'm with someone who really knows the zones. It's only a 7 hour drive from LA to Globe, so that's where we're going.
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Are you using lead free ammo?
 
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Just ran the ballistics and the 40 NBT trajectory and wind drift numbers beat the VMax 55 out to 400 yards. The energy is slightly better on the 55's, but it's not a huge difference. Where I was very surprised was the 53 grain Superformance ammo at 3470 fps MZ and a bc of .290. That one matches the 40 NBT trajectory at 300 and 400 and beats the windage at 2" at 300 yards and 4.5" at 400 yards. That's significant.

Not sure you can get that MZ with off the shelf powders, but looks pretty good and the BC is high for that bullet. Not sure why the rage is for the 55 when the 53 is out there.
 
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Catshooter has said the 53's Bc isnt all its cracked up to be. Iv hand loaded them and they shoot amazingly well. You will only come close to the superformance velocity if you have a long barrel and stuff em hot.
 
The Ballistic Tip is a stouter built bullet than a Vmax.

I've killed a bunch of coyotes with the 40 grain BT at 4200, and never had a splash.

I think it's a great bullet for them.
 
Originally Posted By: Widow maker 223Catshooter has said the 53's Bc isnt all its cracked up to be. Iv hand loaded them and they shoot amazingly well. You will only come close to the superformance velocity if you have a long barrel and stuff em hot.

Yeah I just noticed the velocity issue. They advertise Superformance at 3470 but that's a 24" barrel. There go my balistic calcs. Probably lose at least 200 FPS in a 20" barrel. That changes everything. Still think the 40 grain NBT at a realistic 3600 FPS MV is the way to go. I most definitely agree the Noslers are a bit tougher than the V-Max. The frangibility is great on the V-Max but on tough critter like coyotes I think the Nosler is the way to go. It's a good combination of explosive performance and a solid base.

As for the Nikon Coyote Special, I think I'll ditch it. I used the app yesterday and the ranges change when you turn the power ring. Now I realize this is the same with most mil dot scopes but I know mils and I have a mildot master. With a 250 yard zero and 40's at 3600 FPS I'm good holding dead on to 300. It never exceeds 2" high and is only 2.8" low at 300. If it's farther than that, I can check my cheat sheet and adjust accordingly. I don't see how the coyote special reticle will help accurate shooting and it bugs me that Nikon wants $4.99 for the iPhone app to calculate their complicated reticle. I like Nikon scopes, but this one is going up for sale.
 
When I was younger I always bought the lighter bullets. I had way to many runners and switched to 50g+ and the amount of runners I have has gone down probably 70%. It is amazing what 10 grains more of weight has done for me.
 
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