223 vs 5.56 proof of no difference

Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: Evil_LurkerOriginally Posted By: pahntr760Oh...and GASP! I use 7.62 brass, resized, in my .243 Winchester chamber...Oh yeah, living on the edge....

Uh, in that case you should weigh the cases, because 7.62 NATO brass is usually quite a bit thicker than .308 Win brass.

Something I've never seen in 5.56 NATO/.223 Rem.

You could end up with a very high pressure .243 round if you weren't aware of that.

Uh... isn't that why we drop 10% and work up.

It makes no difference what cases one uses, ALWAYS drop 10% and work up.

There are many other variables besides case weight that can cause bigger pressure problems than heavy cases.


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Um...yes. I work every load up. Reloading 101. The cases thickness hasn't been an issue. And the brass is very nice and consistant.
 
They are pretty deadset about this 5.56/223 thing. I think I'll try to sell them a barrel that fires both 5.56 and .223 and call it multi use barrel if they want to be that ignorant. Any takers?
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Originally Posted By: Ridgeline17They are pretty deadset about this 5.56/223 thing. I think I'll try to sell them a barrel that fires both 5.56 and .223 and call it multi use barrel if they want to be that ignorant. Any takers?
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Stamp the barrel 5.56 on one side and .223 on the other - then they can feel comfortable with what ever they have.
 
my colt 6724's say 223 on the side of the receiver and 5.56 nato on the barrel. oh my, what to do?


the intent of my post was not to get people riled up, at least on this forum. on another forum i started a thread asking who believes they are different, i got 2 pages of pissed off people proclaiming that i was a moron. i expected that, just wanted to see how many people believed in santa clause.

the site moderator was so pissed, i think he might ban me!

i know one guy who had a bushmaster rifle with the receiver marked 223, he had a case surplus 5.56. he had called bushmaster to find out if his chamber was 223 or 5.56, and for weeks couldnt figure out what to do. he eventually sold the ammo!
 
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: Ridgeline17They are pretty deadset about this 5.56/223 thing. I think I'll try to sell them a barrel that fires both 5.56 and .223 and call it multi use barrel if they want to be that ignorant. Any takers?
grin.gif


Stamp the barrel 5.56 on one side and .223 on the other - then they can feel comfortable with what ever they have.

Sadly, it would likely take off well. Just because of plain old ignorance!
 
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: Evil_LurkerOriginally Posted By: pahntr760Oh...and GASP! I use 7.62 brass, resized, in my .243 Winchester chamber...Oh yeah, living on the edge....

Uh, in that case you should weigh the cases, because 7.62 NATO brass is usually quite a bit thicker than .308 Win brass.

Something I've never seen in 5.56 NATO/.223 Rem.

You could end up with a very high pressure .243 round if you weren't aware of that.

Uh... isn't that why we drop 10% and work up.

It makes no difference what cases one uses, ALWAYS drop 10% and work up.

There are many other variables besides case weight that can cause bigger pressure problems than heavy cases.

Drop 10% and work up from a data book that specifies a .308 Win case and you may already be at maximum pressure with the reduced case capacity. I don't see where it hurts to make people aware that 7.62 NATO and .308 are often not the same in regards to substituting one for the other.

In fact it might keep somebody from hurting themselves.


 
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Originally Posted By: pahntr760Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: Evil_LurkerOriginally Posted By: pahntr760Oh...and GASP! I use 7.62 brass, resized, in my .243 Winchester chamber...Oh yeah, living on the edge....

Uh, in that case you should weigh the cases, because 7.62 NATO brass is usually quite a bit thicker than .308 Win brass.

Something I've never seen in 5.56 NATO/.223 Rem.

You could end up with a very high pressure .243 round if you weren't aware of that.

Uh... isn't that why we drop 10% and work up.

It makes no difference what cases one uses, ALWAYS drop 10% and work up.

There are many other variables besides case weight that can cause bigger pressure problems than heavy cases.


.

Um...yes. I work every load up. Reloading 101. The cases thickness hasn't been an issue. And the brass is very nice and consistant.

You probably should have mentioned that in your first post. Somebody dropping their pet .243 load developed with commercial brass in a resized 7.62 NATO case is living on the edge.
 
Originally Posted By: Evil_Lurker

"You probably should have mentioned that in your first post. Somebody dropping their pet .243 load developed with commercial brass in a resized 7.62 NATO case is living on the edge."




Originally Posted By: Evil_Lurker

"Drop 10% and work up from a data book that specifies a .308 Win case and you may already be at maximum pressure with the reduced case capacity. I don't see where it hurts to make people aware that 7.62 NATO and .308 are often not the same in regards to substituting one for the other.

In fact it might keep somebody from hurting themselves."




"... in a resized 7.62 NATO case is living on the edge.""


Oh, I love that part about "... livin' on the edge". Man are we dangerous type peoples or what???


""Drop 10% and work up from a data book that specifies a .308 Win case and you may already be at maximum pressure with the reduced case capacity."


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That is pure, unadulterated BS - the manuals do NOT specify a civilian or commercial case.

I am constantly amazed at the people that give dire warnings about stuff they know nothing about, just so they can sound like experts.

"You're gonna hurt yourself"... "You're gonna blow up your gun!"... "Make sure you have life insurance before you shoot those loads"...

The mean (average) weight of a military, Lake City case is 185 grains - the "aim mean" weight of commercial cases is 175-ish grains.

Do you know what volume 10 grains of brass takes up, and how much of a powder reduction that volume requires to maintain the ~same pressure????

I thought not !!!!!

All hot air!

And what about civilian cases - do you know how much weight variation they have??

I thought not !!!

More hot air.

You don't know a damm thing about the subject, yet you yell warnings that the sky is falling.

Here's some REAL numbers.

In a 308 and .243 case, 10 grains of brass weight is equal to ~ 3/4 of a grain of powder... that means that if you have a warm load of Varget in your civilian cased 243, and you switch to a LC case, you will be warmer, maybe even show some pressure signs, but you ain't blowing up doodley squat.

And if you drop 10%, that is 4.5 grains, that is SIX TIMES the difference in loads between generic civilian and Lake City... enough to cover ANY difference in thickness of cases when developing a load, no matter what kind of case you are loading.

And what about civilian cases - I bought a lot of Federal "Gold Medal Match" cases about 15 years ago, and the groups from my 1,000 yd match rifle went down the toilet. I looked at all the usual suspects, and nothing... until I weighed the cases - the variation was 21 grains from light to heavy (which is why I don't use Federal brass anymore).

So, Evil dudette - what warning are you going to give us all about loading civilian cases? Are we going to blow ourselves up, cuz some are 21 grains heavier than others????

Where did I get this information - It is not an opinion, and I didn't read it on some BS forum like www.blow-up-your-gun.com

I did it the old fashioned way - I used a pressure gun and shot the test loads.

So you can take a deep breath, and know that the world is safe without you running naked through the 100 yards berms at the local range, yellin' "The sky is falling, the sky is falling."



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The same can be said about one brand of any brass to another.

The one rule to live by when reloading...

If you change ONE THING, you change EVERYTHING. Meaning, one component change should be treated as a brand new load and worked up...this is applicable for any load. I don't see why I need to disclaimer all of post.

Also, the LC Match brass I use is only about 4 grain variance from the Federal I had weighed. And less then 10 grain differance from what the W-W brass weighed.
 
There was no hot air and no "the sky is falling". I was pointing out that 7.62 NATO and .308 Win cases are not interchangeable, like 5.56 NATO and .223 Rem are, and to be aware of that and take care if you intend to use them interchangeably.

Making folks aware of that fact isn't a bad thing to do, in spite of how badly it winds you up.

Which I don't really concern myself with at this point.
 
It has not been my experience that every and all 7.62 brass is always and forever thicker then commercial .308 Win brass.

Just like 5.56 vs 223 or federal vs hornady or brass from 1968 and brass from 2012...variances happen and must be looked at. But to say, for 100% concrete certainty that ALL brass is one way or another is foolish.
 
Originally Posted By: Evil_LurkerThere was no hot air and no "the sky is falling". I was pointing out that 7.62 NATO and .308 Win cases are not interchangeable, like 5.56 NATO and .223 Rem are, and to be aware of that and take care if you intend to use them interchangeably.

Making folks aware of that fact isn't a bad thing to do, in spite of how badly it winds you up.

Which I don't really concern myself with at this point.

Nothing is interchangeable - Remington and Winchester cases are not interchangeable... but it sounds you didn't know that.


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Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: Evil_LurkerThere was no hot air and no "the sky is falling". I was pointing out that 7.62 NATO and .308 Win cases are not interchangeable, like 5.56 NATO and .223 Rem are, and to be aware of that and take care if you intend to use them interchangeably.

Making folks aware of that fact isn't a bad thing to do, in spite of how badly it winds you up.

Which I don't really concern myself with at this point.

Nothing is interchangeable - Remington and Winchester cases are not interchangeable... but it sounds you didn't know that.


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Heck, there can even be lack of "interchangeability" even with the same manufacturers. Like I said, change one thing, change everything. I think Cat and I are on the same page, here.
 
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: Evil_LurkerThere was no hot air and no "the sky is falling". I was pointing out that 7.62 NATO and .308 Win cases are not interchangeable, like 5.56 NATO and .223 Rem are, and to be aware of that and take care if you intend to use them interchangeably.

Making folks aware of that fact isn't a bad thing to do, in spite of how badly it winds you up.

Which I don't really concern myself with at this point.

Nothing is interchangeable - Remington and Winchester cases are not interchangeable... but it sounds you didn't know that.


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So, you develop a new load every time you buy a new lot of powder, brick of primers or new batch of brass, do you?
You don't have any pet loads you stick with.

You're one in a million.
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Originally Posted By: pahntr760 I think Cat and I are on the same page, here.


Well, when are you not?

Not that there's anything wrong with that, just an observation.
 
This is the stuff that happens everytime this 5.56 issue comes up. If people would read and do their research, there wouldn't be an issue.
 
Originally Posted By: Ridgeline17If people would read and do their research, there wouldn't be an issue.

Which they won't, and why we have to keep answering this over and over and over and over and over and over and over....
 
Originally Posted By: Evil_LurkerOriginally Posted By: pahntr760 I think Cat and I are on the same page, here.


Well, when are you not?

Not that there's anything wrong with that, just an observation.

Just on this issue, actually. Him and I see differently quite often...not that I owe you any explanation.

Anyways, this 223 vs 5.56 crap comes up so often and most just jump to their wives tales and trust it as gospel. Just the same as you with the 7.62 brass. I have used and worked it quite a bit in 308, 7-08 and currently, a 243. No issues, what so ever. It's great brass, usally requires a bit of work to "de-mil" it. But, IME and IMHO, completely worth it. This brass is superior to most of the commercial stuff, except Lapua or so...
 
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