Originally Posted By: pyscodogIts almost funny. Years ago the Creedmoor didn't exist but the 22-250 or 250AI did. The 260 and the 6.5x55 did also. Any of these do the same thing or close to the same as the Creedmoor's but they don't have the cool name and weren't Tacti-kool. I'd wager that in a year or so, the CM will be old news and a new Whiz Bang caliber will come out and you won't be able to give a Creed away and everyone will be having the same conversation about the new Whiz Bang is better than the Creedmoor and the old PITA 22-250AI will still be kicking azz and killing stuff.
It gets a little tiring reading post after post of people claiming the creedmoor is just the same as all the things we had before. Just because it's trendy and popular, people think it's ok to spread misinformation. If any of the cartridges we had before were the same, or even as good, it wouldn't have achieved the popularity it has. Fact is that it's the most technologically correct cartridge of it's size, configured to optimize ease of feeding, forgiving accuracy nodes, long VLD's at standard mag length with the bearing surface positioned in the neck above where donuts potentially form, and with a shoulder angle conducive to good powder burn with the typical components used. Many cartridges have come close, but they simply do not do all the things the creedmoor does. Not from a technical interior ballistics standpoint. Exterior ballistics, well yes it's nothing new and matched by many. However, for those that have actually owned a bunch of similar cartridges, lesser performance and/or narrower and more finicky accuracy nodes, and various other ergo and technical issues have always been present. Dealt with, but present none the less. The creedmoor is a great family of cartridges, and no amount of internet posturing is going to change that.
Long cases such as the 243win and 260, simply presented a series of issues when loading long vld's at mag length. These eventualities and issues are well documented, and had the 260 been a shorter case... the creedmoor would never have achieved popularity. If the 6.5x47 would have been a touch longer, the creed would never have succeeded. The 6.5x55 is not compatible with a short action. The reality is the creedmoor locked in on and combined the best configuration of all available cartridges to that point.
Cartridge stability and forgiveness is something that is not talked about enough. Older case designs with lots of body taper and shallow shoulder angles certainly worked for us in the past. As handloaders, we can generally tune just about anything if we work hard enough. These new lessons learned from cartridges such as the 6mm BR, Dasher, and Creedmoor, have taught case designers plenty about creating things that work "all" the time, not just in certain situations. Many new cartridges simply have more of the boxes checked than some of the old stand-by's. That doesn't all of a sudden mean you're an idiot for shooting a 260rem or a 220 swift. Just don't be fooled into thinking because you chose those things that there isn't something out there doing the job better, or at least the same with significant benefits to other logistical aspects outside of ballistics.
Regarding 22-250AI vs 22 creed. If one is already happy with 22-250AI, then I see no need to switch. Fire forming is the only drawback... but again, if one is happy, then fine. Ballistically they are within 50fps of each other, or plain identical. Usually the 22 creed will beat the 22-250 in speed by about that much, but it can vary. The 22-250AI is also very forgiving, and in fact it is usually more so, due to its 40 degree shoulder and the fact you could run lapua brass. (this is less so now that you can run lapua in a creed) The sharper shoulder tends to produce more forgiving loads with heavy bullets than the factory creed shoulder, all other things being equal.
Regarding case capacity, if you use 22-250 brass to form 22 creed... then you'll plainly see the 22-250 cases are smaller. Period. You can simply measure a 22-250 and any creed case and find that very same thing. That case capacity difference results in approximately a 25-50fps velocity penalty on average. (all other things being equal) This is not really noticeable in the real world, so can be mostly muted.
That's why the 22 creed is so awesome... it brings 22-250AI performance in a factory headstamp. Only a matter of time before we see factory loaded ammo and full factory support for the cartridge. That is something that is simply not likely to happen for the 22-250AI.
If you have such a strongly negative opinion of the creedmoor, as evidenced by your post, then why are you asking this question? If you're so averse to the fact that so many people love the creedmoor cases, why not just happily continue shooting your 22-250AI? Better still, why don't you do the work yourself? Build two identical rifles, one in 22-250AI, one in 22 creed, and put a barrels worth of rounds down each and then come tell us what you discovered. I'm speaking from a minimum of a couple thousand rounds experience with each of .223, .223AI, 22BR, 22-250, 22-250AI, 22-243, 22-243AI, and 22 Creed. (among a few hundred rounds with others) How do you expect to have any real knowledge if you don't put in the time on the reloading bench and behind the trigger?
If people want to posture and proclaim "A" is better than "B" or vice versa, then they better be able to demonstrate they have a significant batch of detailed experience with BOTH. If not, then it seems to me that people are safe, and would be advised, to completely disregard most of what is said.