204 Ruger reloading problem

Raidman

Raidman

New member
I started loading some 204 ammo to break-in a new CZ 527 American using 40gr Vmax bullets today. As always I got out my Stony Point OAL gage and got an OAL reading of 2.410. I seated a bullet at 2.395 (.015 from the lands), chambered it in the rifle and all worked fine. Next I tried the bullet in the CZ clip only to find it was about .110 to long to fit in the clip. I know the specs call for a maximum Length of 2.260 but I never pay much attention to that. To make a long story short I had to seat the bullet at 2.290 to make it work in the clip. That means the bullet has to jump .120 to reach the lands or I have a single shot rifle. Thinking there was something wrong with the CZ chamber; I grabbed a 204 Kimber from the gun rack and measured it. OAL with the same bullet measured 2.395 (.015 less than the CZ) but nothing near the .120. Getting frustrated I grabbed my 204 cooper from the gun rack and measured it at 2.375 which means it’s still .085 from the lands if the CZ had the same chamber dimensions as the Cooper. Now I’m thinking the bullet has to be too small and it did measure about 3 tenths small. All this brain work is giving me a headache and I just want someone to enlighten me. I forgot to mention that I measured a factory Hornady load with 32gr bullets at 2.240.
 
The 204 cartridge was designed to be long throated by Hornady and many manufacturers reamers have taken this to extreme. My brother has a Cooper 204 and its throat (2.42) is longer than my Ruger #1 in .204. I never would have thought that another rifle manufacturer would have a longer throat than a Ruger rifle.

With your CZ-527 having a short action scaled to length for the .223 and .204 you can find the seating depth that provides you the best accuracy which means you could have a single shot rifle or seat the bullets to magazine length.

Hense why I have a single shot rifle (ruger #1) in .204, it does not matter.

In the 4 rifles in my group we all shoot the 40 gr. Hornady V-max using Reloader 10-X with the bullet almost touching
the lands. Powder charges range from 24.8 to 25.2 and accuracy is 1/2 inch or better. I have found the 40 gr. V-max needs to be pushed to Max velocity and seated very close to the lands to off-set the 1/ 12 twist Vs. bearing surface of the bullet and it has worked well.

The Savage rifles seem to have the "normal" throat length
but their box magazines have ample room. I can't comment on the Remington rifles in .204. Ruger throats fall in the middle and Cooper and CZ are on the LOONNG side of throat length.

This throat length vs. magazine box length is a worse situation in the 270WSM/300WSM calibers if your box magazine is less than 3.1 inches.

IDBOB and his CZ-527 in .204 needs to "jump" in of this
discussion.

Hog
 
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Having a long chamber neck has ben a common problem for years. I have a old tang safety Ruger 77 22-250 Rem with a long neck so I drilled out the four spot welds that hold the rear spacer in the magazine ,moved the spacer back and soddered it in place . Now I can load a 55 Gr bullet with zero free bore. The Howa 1500 Thumb hole varmint 223 Rem rifle I got this year has slots cut into the magazine that holds the rear spacer. I will have to take a Drmmel cutting wheel and cut new slots in the magazine to move the rear spacer back so that I can load bullets at zero free bore. On some rifles I can not rework the magazine so I reload ammo with a long bullet jump and still find a good reload.
 
My Rem 700 LVSF has a long throat as well. I was unable to seat 40gr. Bergers out far enough to touch the lands. It was impossible as bullets seated just barely in the case still weren't long enough. So, I loaded a COL of 2.300" which is the max. length fits in the magazine. I tried several different powder loadings (BLC2, WW748 and H335) and the gun shot all well, especially BLC(2). My gun is shooting 1/2" 3 shot groups, so don't be discouraged about the long bullet jump as the .204 seems to shoot great despite this.

As an aside, I have no idea why so many .204's seem to have such a long throat. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
This is news to me, I built my own 204 on a 700 short action. I chambered the Pac-Nor barrel with a Dave Manson reamer and can seat the 32 grain Hornady bullets touching the rifling if I want to. Sounds like your rifles have "freebore" like a Weatherby. I haven't noticed any signs of pressure or otherwise had any problems but I am not loading to max either. Didn't know it till I read this but I am glad i dont have the problem.
 
Calm down guys....you DON'T have a problem. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

First off, there have been, and always will be, rifles of every caliber made with magazine restrictions on OAL that creates a long jump for the bullet. It's ALWAYS been that way.

Most .204 rifles shoot very, very well with a long jump. Was the cartridge designed this way, or was it something that was discovered afterwards? Who knows? Either way...it's not a problem. I have 2 factory stock 204 rifles that will shoot WAY better than I can shoot them.

This topic has been discussed in length at www.204ruger.com more than once, and also on here a couple of times.

End result is this: Load either to the published OAL in your load manual, or to the max OAL for your magazine. You won't have any appreciable accuracy problems because of the "jump" that is left. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
True that.

Even if I wanted to single feed, using the 32 gr Nosler Ballistic tips or the 35 gr Bergers I still can't come close to the lands with my CZ or my buddy's H&R. Doesn't seem to matter. Both shoot sub moa.
 
I found in my Savage .223 Rem. I had a jump of about 1/8" for the 40 grain BT to touch the lands. It still shot sub .300" 3 shot groups at 100 yards. As long as the throat is tight, the distance may not cause an accuracy problem.

However, in my Ruger .22-250 Rem., I had to lengthen the magazine box by replacing the piece of sheet metal spot welded in it, to allow enough room to feed the longer than spec. cartridges which shot the best in it. But, what can you say......it was a Ruger. lol
 
I'm with Hidalgo on this one. The 204 was designed with freebore in mind just like the Weatherby cartridges. With the hotter powders the manufactures use there was a need for a little extra freebore to lessen the pressure spike when the bullet contacts the lands.
In my Rem XR 100 I can get to the lands with a 32 gr. but I seat it a bit more to get some neck tension.
 
I don't even try to reach the lands in my m700. I just load to factory OAL and call it good. It shoots around 1/2" groups at 100, which is good enough for a factory gun.
 
The long throat is by design. It's their way of imitating what Weatherby did a long time ago. It's almost like cheating, but I don't think you will ever find a .204 that you can seat the bullets out far enough to touch the lands. Nature of the caliber. Ask a competent riflesmith and see what they say.
 
Raidman I have the CZ 527 Varmint in 204 also. I'm loading both the 32 grain Hornedy and the 40 grainer so they will just fit in the magazine and not having any accuracy problems. You can sure drive yourself nuts by trying to get to the rifling in magazine guns when trying to squeeze that last bit of accuracy out of them.

My gun is shooting five shot dime sized groups and probably would be doing better with someone whom could shoot better than I can. Here's an example of what I'm getting and I called the two fliers. This is the 32 grain Hornedy with a CCI bench rest primer and 26.6 grains of Allient 10X

CZ52720440grHorn09-09-063.jpg


This is five shots, one just went thru the same hole on the bottom. This is 40 grain Hornedy's with a CCI bench rest primer and 26.2 grains of Allient 10X

CZ5272040909061.jpg


All these loads fit in the magazine and don't show any pressure signs on the case or the primer and bolt lift is smooth and easy.

Here's the little CZ that's been doing it. I got my loads off the Ruger 204 forum and worked up from 25.5 grains in .1 grain increments. I have to agree that my loads give better accuracy than the lighter loads.

CZ527-204-2.jpg
 
I'm just a dumb old country boy from middle Tn. and just started varmit hunting, so bear with me if I ask elementary questions.
First of all I recently purchased a Remington 700 BDL with a laminated stock, thumbhole, varmit barrell, stainless steel, and vented forearm, with a Leupold VX-III 6.5-20X40 varmit rectile scope.
I am planning on reloading with a rcbs rock chucker press with all the aminities and would like help getting started.
I realize that there are people who will agree and disagree with my choices, but would appreciate any feedback, positive or negative.
Wendle
 
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