20 Practical questions

Originally Posted By: pyscodogDo I really need to bring the neck down in two steps. A friend made me a dummy round using 20 tact dies and brought the 223 case down to 20 in one pass. Just asking, I want to do it right.

I just watched a youtube video, for about the tenth time, and the guy making 20P brass uses a 223 seater to seat the bullets. Can I do that???

You can do that in either case but if you wish to have more consistent neck thickness the two pass is better. Was your buddies 20 TACTICAL die a standard type or a bushing?

With standard non-bushings you can but I find that using a gutted 223 for the initial size down just seems to ease things better especially with bushings. I make 20-250 out of 22-250 but found that the extra step gave me much more uniform necks when I was doing the process. I was glad I learned that on the 20 Tactical and the Practicals I load for.

Seating can be done with a 223 but if you use a 20 caliber Hornady/Redding the bullet is held in much better alignment from the get go.

You want the best performance you can get out of this little speedster so why not spend a few extra $$'s on the gear. The difference is less than a twelve pack of your favorite beverage.

Greg
 
I'm still waiting for my barrel but i started on the brass work for mine! I made 500pcs using a standard FL 223 sizer die (Hornady) with the decapping assy removed for the first step, then ran it thru the Redding 223 FL Bushing die with a .228 bushing, then they were annealed and run thru a redding 223 bushing neck sizer dia with a .226 bushing (I already had this die along with the Hornady FL 223 which i use for sizing ALL my 223 AR stuff) I loaded 10 rounds just to use to get the gun dialed in with 32gr Zmaxs, I ran all of them thru the concentricity gage and they were all with in .002 (Good enough)...

one thing i did notice is that after they were run thru the FL 223 hornady die when i run them thru the 223 FL bushing die that the only thing that touched the die was the necks going in the bushing, I'm not sure if hornady dies are on the small side but i'm sure they will not have to be run thru a SB die like most/some have to do with once fired brass.. I'm using FC 12 once fired brass and with a loaded rounds I have .003 neck tension. The only thing I had to buy were 2 bushings and a Hornady 20 cal seater die, Redding sent me 2 decapping assemblys with there decapping pin retainer that is small enough that it does not touch the necks after they are sized with the bushing...

PS.. I did try to size a couple with the FL bushing die to start with but they caved in the necks with out that first step of running them thru the 223 die! FWIW...
 
I'll be using Lapua brass. I tumbled all the brass, then ran it through my 223 FL die. Then annealed all of it. I"m thinking I should have annealed it first but I can always do it again.
 
This is just a personal opinion.

Unless you are running Match brass(even then I don't)I would never run a sizing die whether standard or bushing die without an expander ball unless all the brass was neck turned to the same wall thickness. With out the expander ball all variations in neck wall thickness will make changes in the concentricy and ID of the inside of the neck and effect bullet/neck tension. With the ball in place any variations in concentricity and ID are pressed to the outside of the neck and leave you with more consistent neck tension and bullet seating effort. I do adjust bushings to create minimal working of the neck and ball drag when extracting the case.

For initial case forming with intermediate dies I remove the expander ball, no sense pushing it in and pushing it back out if you just going to push it in even smaller.
 
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GL Shooter- My friend used a standard die but it was a 20 Tactical die. He only brought it up until it just started touching the shoulder. It was mainly just to show me what a loaded round will look like. He said he could probably load ammo but it might be a little slower than using the bushing dies.
 
Originally Posted By: pyscodogGL Shooter- My friend used a standard die but it was a 20 Tactical die. He only brought it up until it just started touching the shoulder. It was mainly just to show me what a loaded round will look like. He said he could probably load ammo but it might be a little slower than using the bushing dies.

You could make the brass that way out of new but not reload it with them as the shoulder angle is wrong for bumping and you wouldn't be sizing the base down to the bottom.

Greg
 
Originally Posted By: AWSThis is just a personal opinion.

Unless you are running Match brass(even then I don't)I would never run a sizing die whether standard or bushing die without an expander ball unless all the brass was neck turned to the same wall thickness.

What is the purpose of using a bushing die to set neck tension if you are just gonna pull the expander button back through the neck on the way out? Seems like that defeats the purpose of the bushing!?! If that's the case, why not turn down the button until you get the desired tension.

Or maybe I'm not seeing things correctly....
 
Bushing dies were designed to be used with out the expander ball with turned case neck where all the brass has the same wall thickness and the sized brass will have the same interior dimensions/neck tension. They also work to size un-turned necks without over working the brass by squeezing it down a lot and then spreading it back out over the expander ball with the correct bushing you can size the neck just enough that the expander ball has just a minimal amount of work making all necks have the same interior dimensions.

Variations in wall thickness can be seen even more with brass that has been sized up, as in 35 Whelen from 30-06 where one side of the neck can be thinner than the other because one side stretched more than the other. On sized down brass one side can end up thicker than the other because it was softer and compressed more.

The more you go up or down the more pronounced variation in neck wall thickness will raise their ugly heads.

I regularly size 204 Ruger brass up to .257 and 9.3 brass down to .260

The brass on the right is what I size down to make the cartridge in the middle interesting case forming, even the bullets have to be sized from .264 to .260



 
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With that said, wouldn't it just be a good idea to turn down the 204 expander button to say, .200" to allow for a slight spring back and end up at .003" neck tension? If that works, what size bushing would a person need to use?

I have yet to order my Redding dies and bushings, so I'm still making a list of necessities. I have already sized 100 new Lapua, and 100 Lake City brass, intended for 20 Practical brass, down with a gutted 223 full length sizer. Just waiting to see what to order.
 
Originally Posted By: TaterTotWith that said, wouldn't it just be a good idea to turn down the 204 expander button to say, .200" to allow for a slight spring back and end up at .003" neck tension? If that works, what size bushing would a person need to use?

I have yet to order my Redding dies and bushings, so I'm still making a list of necessities. I have already sized 100 new Lapua, and 100 Lake City brass, intended for 20 Practical brass, down with a gutted 223 full length sizer. Just waiting to see what to order.

Any bushing that gets you down below 0.200 would be fine. Obviously you would want one to handle you thinnest brass that in my case I have found to be Winchester in most set ups.

I would shoot for an internal of about 0.198 to decrease neck overwork if you want to go that route. A little match will be in order..LOL

Greg
 
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