.17 Predator,,,looking for some information

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The .17 Fireball is in a different class of cartridges altogether. The .17P launches bullets weighing 50% more (30's vs. 20's), at the same velocity as the .17FB. I've killed a pretty big pile of coyotes with the .17 Mach IV, and I do like it, a lot. But, comparing the Fireball or Mach IV to the .17P is quite literally like trying to compare the .221 Fireball to the .220 Swift. There really is no comparison...DAA

Dooger..Read DAA's comment's again i think it's self explanitory /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
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The .17 Fireball is in a different class of cartridges altogether. The .17P launches bullets weighing 50% more (30's vs. 20's), at the same velocity as the .17FB. I've killed a pretty big pile of coyotes with the .17 Mach IV, and I do like it, a lot. But, comparing the Fireball or Mach IV to the .17P is quite literally like trying to compare the .221 Fireball to the .220 Swift. There really is no comparison...DAA

Dooger..Read DAA's comment's again i think it's self explanitory /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif



Well...you read mine again too then. I think it's self explainatory. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
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It just seems, in my eyes (IMO), that a .17P is not really needed if one was to only shoot 150 yards or less.




A few of us here shoot coyotes all season and have done it for years so we speak from exsperiance and a 17 Rem or a 17 Pred. wouldbe a better choice over the 17 F.B. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
Yup, and like I've said, if your shots are 150 yards or less, there's no need to get into a custom, expensive gun, extensive equipment, with the need to form cases to kill coyotes.

End of story....

I let you guys have your opinion and now I've had mine.....repeated for the upteenth time because you have to be force fed.

I'll leave you with this:

"The powder I chose for the 17 Fireball and our 30 grain Gold bullets is Reloder 10X. I worked up my
loads carefully eventually settling on a load moving the 30 Gold at 3700 fps. I hoped for 3800 fps, but
with only a 22 inch barrel, I was satisfied. I just tested the rifle and myself using a quality Harris Bipod
out to 400 yards. I zeroed about 1.5 inches high at 100 yards, which puts it just a little high at 200 yards
and dead on at 250 yards. This makes it basically a “point & shoot” predator rifle out to 250 yards where
most predators are taken."

P.S. I shoot a .17 Rem
 
I've found this thread very interesting & informative..I have no plan's for a 17-P in the near future yet this chambering certainly has my attention.

It was about 3-4 year's ago i remember guy's here talking about the 17 Remington.I read & listened carefully.

Finally about a year ago my dream came true & i bought one.

I'm kinda hoping the same might happen in regard's to a 17-Predator.

{This thread is titled .17 Predator,,,looking for some information}

I guess i'm confused as to why someone would enter the conversation with a apparent agenda to convince reader's that a 17-P isn't needed ?? Dunno..

To folk's like DAA..I really appreciate you spreading your knowledge to the rest of us trying to learn.

Trust me it's appreciated /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Dave you know how it goes.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Someone asks about a 22-250 no doubt we will be bombarded with
"the .204 ruger is the bomb and all you need end of story" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Or

Someone asks which scope is best VXIII or Sightron..?

The answer will be yep you guessed.. "bushnell is the best" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I for one have also found this to be very informative.... but I could give two craps about a .17 Fireball when it comes to coyotes...wouldn't even make the list... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

Hey guys what do ya think............ Swift or 22-250AI??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

"the .223 will put them down out too 250yds and thats where the majority of shots are taken" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I could care less about the .223............Not in the question.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif

Same deal here.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
I have also enjoyed this thread. And have also learned a bit about 17 calibers. However the original poster said he was interested in this cartridge as a 500 yard coyote killer. And the problem is that I still have a hard time believing that the cartridge would make a "humane kill" cartridge at 500 yards. If you guys say it is, then I believe you because I do not have experience with the cartridge. However I still have a hard time believing it.

I can believe what you guys say about it being a great "pelt" cartridge. Tom.
 
Good point, Tom...

So back full circle we come to Dultimat's questions. He is actually in the same boat I was in just a few months ago...asking questions about the .17Predator. From what little I've deduced without even having mine built yet, the .17P is going to bring a BIG smile to my face /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I agree with Dooger that most called yotes are shot inside of 150yds. I'm not having a .17P built for those shots though. I'm getting a .17P to take care of those "spooky" yotes (very common here in NY) that will respond but hang up and circle in that marginal 200-400yd perimeter distance from my stand. This scenario happens quite often here and a lightweight super flat shooting rifle would address that situation very well. That of course, and the fact that I've got a serious gun addiction to maintain /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my 16" AR 6x45! For inside of 150yds, there ain't nothing better for me. But after 200yds, the 60gr Sierras I shoot are very succeptible to drop & drift. Yes I can hit well beyond that, but calling & doping wind on stand are things I'd rather not have to think about as much. A faaast, flaaaat shooting caliber like the .17P summarily takes that extra thought process out of the equation out over 300yds...

If I actually plan on an attempting a 'coyote snipe job' at 500yds, rest assured that it won't be a .17P in my hands even though the "numbers" say its capable. In that case, I'll be on my belly nestling an ugly green McMillan stock into my shoulder /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

DAA and a few other members here were MORE than helpful to me about the .17P and have been so again here in this thread...

So thanks again fellas!

And good luck with yours, Dultimate!
 
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From what little I've deduced without even having mine built yet, the .17P is going to bring a BIG smile to my face


And on some days its gonna hurt.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Hey posters you have filled me with tons of great information on the 17P! I want to go with the POS 204 case. I have seen the examples of crush fitting(tunring the neck down)in the photos above. What steps and dies do I need to use to accomplish this task?
 
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P.S. I shoot a .17 Rem



And exactly how many coyotes have you killed with it? One doesn't have to look very hard at your posts here and over at CoyoteGods to see you have very little experience with any .17's, so it might pay to sit back and listen to guys who kill more coyotes in a year than most people kill in five years.

 
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so it might pay to sit back and listen to guys who kill more coyotes in a year than most people kill in five years.



/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
Dooger,What are you some kind of hater of everything?It seems like every post I see your name on that you leave a bad attitude,man I dont mean to call you out but what you are saying is something like if you've got a .223 why get a 22-250 or if you,ve got a 22-250 why get a .220 swift!Well its different strokes for different folks.I am a big 17 rem. fan and I have enjoyed this post very much would consider a .17 predator in my near future...I have sent Pm,s to several of these guys that live out west on the .17 Rem.on what loads to use for coyotes and fox because they see more Predators in a week than we on the east coast see in a year...Just ask TA17rem I have pm several times on 17 loads and what works good because I know that he has been their and done that...Do like me set back and take it in and learn from it.To me this forum is a learning tool and every bit of info I can take in from these guys will make me that much better...
 
you need a 17POS resizer, just resize and try in the gun until you feel a bit of resistance when camming the bolt down, then load and shoot, this is whats known as a crush fit. after fireforming, screw the die in a tad farther and reload. weather (whether?) or not you have to neck turn depends on the reamer used.
RR
 
you do not need a special die the 17 fireball dies will work just fine. neck them down to a crush fit to your chamber. Im sure Kerry can fill you in on the particulars. When I chambered Kerrys rifle I used a case that already had a false shoulder set for a gauge and set the headspace accordingly. Its really very simple and there is no need for a custom die. You should be able to just neck size until the primer pockets wear out.
 
Here are the steps i go through to make my 17 Pred. brass others may do it a little different.


Step 1
I run the 223 brass through a 223 die to make sure the necks are straight and remove dents around the mouth of the case.


Step 2 I square up the primer pockets and debur inside flash hole.
IMG_2043.jpg



Step 3 Next i outside neck-turn the brass. Since my rifle has a .196 neck there is to much material that needs to be removed for one pass with the neck turner so i remove about 75 % of what needs to be removed and then finsh neck turning to final specks after fire forming.

IMG_2044.jpg


Step 4 I run the brass through my 17 Mach-4 neck die and leave a false shoulder.. Make sure you just size the neck a little at a time and then try to chamber it in youre rifle. Keep turning the die down and running a case through it till it will chamber in youre rifle. You want a snug feel to the bolt when locking it up.

223 case on left and 17 Pred. on right with false shoulder.

IMG_2047.jpg


Step 5 fire form the brass to youre chamber. I use the cream of wheat method. You need to prime the case then add 2.5 gr. of Bullseye powder and work up the charge to about 3.5 gr.. Place a small piece of toilet paper over powder and then fill case with Cream of Wheat, tap case a little so the filler is a little ways down from top of case mouth and then place another piece of T-P into case mouth to act as a plug and pack it down a little. (For this step you may use grease or Liquid glass)

step 6 fire forming. Take loaded rounds outside someplace and chamber one at a time in rifle with muzzle pointing up towards the sky a fire round off.. Look at fired case and see if the primer is flatten a bit and also look at shoulder area and see if it reformed to the Pred... If not then repeat steps above and increase charge of powder from 2.5 and work up .3 at a time untill the primer is some what flat and the case has taken on the Pred. form..

Case ready to be fire formed;
IMG_2050.jpg

223 case on left. 17 Pred. with false shoulder and 17 Pred after fireforming..
IMG_2052.jpg


Step 7 I run the cases through a 17 Pred. neck die and then i turn the necks one last time to my chamber spec's -.003. ( chamber is .196 and necks are cut to .193)
When takeing measurements a bullet has to be seated into the case neck and then a measurement taken and then remove bullet and resize neck and then remove material with neck turning tool. Repete steps till you have the right amount of clearance..
I use a hand neck turning tool for finishing up on the necks. You don't need to have more than one neck turning tool, but i like to leave some set and not have to change it back and fourth till i'm all done.
IMG_2053.jpg


Step 8 Anneal necks. After all the steps are done the brass is pretty springy so it needs to be soften up by the anneal process. After this step chamfer inside and outside of case mouth and then run through a tumbler and clean up.

Step 10 work up a load for youre rifle..

I hope this info helps and gives some of the newer guys an idea of what needs to be done. It takes a little time but i feel its worth it in the end when you have a coyote laying dead on the ground a couple 100 yds out..

( Like i said in the beginning these are the steps i go through and some may skip a few steps or do it different..) Good luck to those that have one built and good hunting.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif
 
Just out of curiosity, why didn't you use a reamer with a no-turn neck? Or is turning necks just something you'll have to deal with with the .17 Pred.?

With your method, how often will you have to turn the necks? I realize that some of your turning is part of case forming, but is your neck tight enough that you'll have to turn them often? Thanks.
 
my reamer is a .199 neck and required light turning with the 223 brass and no turning at all with the 204. I would imaging that the .196 reamer would need light turning with the 204 brass as well.
 
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P.S. I shoot a .17 Rem



And exactly how many coyotes have you killed with it? One doesn't have to look very hard at your posts here and over at CoyoteGods to see you have very little experience with any .17's, so it might pay to sit back and listen to guys who kill more coyotes in a year than most people kill in five years.





Good call Buster.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
About a month ago I saw a post by Mr. Dooger over on Saubier asking if there were any ammo manufacturers other than Remmy that made 17Rem fodder. At that time he was on his second box. Well the next day I saw him giving advice over here on the 17Rem. I asked him how he became such an expert overnight and recieved a nasty pm calling me a few four letter names. He also informed me that if I knew who his "Dad" was I'd change my tune... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
I've been watching this thread and chuckling alot. I figured when Mr.Dooger started telling TA and DAA all about the 17cals it wouldn't take long for him to show his azz... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif


Tim,,,,,,,, Very nice job of showing the steps required to form the 17P.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
You make it look easy, but those of us that own wildcats know better. That doesn't mean it isn't fun though. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

All and all, this has been a great thread,, although I see a shortage of 17cal components in the near future because of it...
 
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