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#83128 - 09/23/02 12:44 AM Re: Calling Tactics and Sounds?
SteveM Offline
Retired PM Staff

Registered: 01/26/02
Posts: 7617
I hear what ya are saying. My area here in Ark.is farmland city. Fence rows, treelines, ditches, levi's,corn soybeans,rice,cotton,small wood lots and standing timber. Farms are from 40 to 500 acre plots. The only difference here is flat land! Tough to hunt until they get some of the crops out. Corn is kinda new here but the rice fields and I am sure the corn too are rodent heaven for feeding yotes.

Here wind plays a big part of where to hunt. On the ditches, I find it better to have a central starting point and work into the wind which ever direction it sends me instead of having to drive many miles to get down wind to work up. This cuts fuel costs and down time driving. Yotes den up in the levi type banks of the ditches to escape high water when it runs through here.

Rich and Jimmie, you had a great idea for a thread on this one!! I for one think this info is really good. Lots of learning here!! Ramble on!! I have noticed several new callers asking questions on some of the other pages. Will try to direct them over here when I see one. Shame they can't see this on the other pages as well. How many of those squealer calls are out there. Most of the ones that I have seen are too loud with not enough squeak! Can they do the lip squeak sounds on a slightly louder volume?

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#83129 - 09/23/02 06:54 AM Re: Calling Tactics and Sounds?
Rich Cronk Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 7135
Loc: Western Iowa
Here is a post by GC that I copied and pasted from a diferent thread. Same methods can apply in similar terrain almost anywhere you hunt.

Personally, without knowing much about the territory, that main ridge would be my jumping off spot. Everything I did would be based off that main ridge. Something that prominent in the terrain has to eventually have coyotes coming across it, or working along it's side terrain features. I'd drive or walk that ridge scouting and using either a siren or howler to locate. Here most of my hunting land is walk-in only and that ridge would have an old logging trail or dirt trail along the length of it. Tracks, scat, dirt scratchings, pee post in the snow, and occasionally even a kill site can be found by legging out these old trails in my neck of the woods. A saddle up high here with suitable cover on top of, or either of the sides, connecting one side to the other as a cross over, can certainly be a hotspot. In fact, that's one of my ideal calling locations. Especially if that saddle leads down into an area that contains something special, such as a cove of a lake, stream corridor, clearcut, boulder piles, field, ect... Calling up here means that the wind is more predictable and easier to play. Sound carries better than down in a hollow. I can usually place the critter at a disadvantage by utilizing the travel lanes to funnel the critter along to the gun. Much of that depends upon the cover. Ridge tops here most often tend to be narrow and "razorbacked" and the saddles aren't terribly wide. That means that even though this is heavy timber I can usually cover the entire area pretty effectively and predictibly with the gun. That causes the animals to travel in a more defined area with less roaming around space. And if everything is right with the world you can have the sun at your back to make it more difficult for the approaching animal to pick you out. And last but not least, this can be more efficient hunting and easier because you're hunting horizontally in otherwise vertical terrain. So it's faster to get to the next stand site walking along the top, than up and down the side ridges. That can wear you out, especially in a snow. You know I love this terrain talk! I've always felt it's as big a piece of the puzzle as any other component, maybe more so.


Edited by GC (02/18/08 02:10 PM)

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#83130 - 09/23/02 06:58 AM Re: Calling Tactics and Sounds?
Rich Cronk Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 7135
Loc: Western Iowa
MORE TIPS FROM OUR FRIEND GC
Two lane highway!!! Yuck. Yeah, you'll need to work the spur ridges and their adjacent terrain features. In the big timber the same basic things will apply for travel corridors. I call my area of the Ozarks a "HARDWOOD DESERT" because of the rolling mile upon mile of unbroken forest cover. Fields are few and far between, fence row? What's a fence? Subtle things are key here. Ridge tops with old logging trails, or without, but the trail helps. Saddles, funnels, bottlenecks, side hill benches, flats on the ridge top, hollows, bluffs, stream corridors, ect... As important will be differences in vegatation, LOOK FOR EDGES. For instance, the ridge tops here are often covered in pine trees, with the slopes oaks and various other hardwoods. That transition zone between the two types of trees can often be a travel lane and hunting area for coyotes. An old clearcut is a heck of a good edge, the small prey species such as rabbits, mice, chipmunks, birds, are holed up in those brush piles and downed tops. So are the deer, especially fawns early on. The thicker cover in some of those creek bottoms also has the same promise. That old trail on top of the ridge is an excellent place for grasshoppers in the early fall and that provides super hunting for pups as you well know. A honeysuckle patch on a side hill bench, a pod of boulders or a bluff edge, ect... Most folks walk around in the big timber and don't have a clue, it all looks the same to them. It's not, I know you are a detail oriented person, look for those subtle breaks and be a thinker. This is tough hunting, but it's very rewarding.
_________________________

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FoxPro Field Staff
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www.cronkpredatorcalls.com

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#83131 - 09/23/02 07:02 AM Re: Calling Tactics and Sounds?
Rich Cronk Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 7135
Loc: Western Iowa
GC wrote----
One thing I didn't mention in my post above is altitude. I really don't like to be in the deep bottom of a drainage, hollow, or stream corridor. It's very hard to see when seated on the ground in heavy cover and a critter can be right on top of you without offering a shot opportunity. Also, if the called predator is coming down from a higher elevation I've always felt he stood a better chance of picking me out as he held the high ground and a visability advantage.
I like to work the side hill points and spur ridges above that heavy cover and draw the critters out of the really heavy brush and into the edge of the more open hardwoods. In my experience all predators seem to respond fine up hill or on an equal level with them. They seem to hang up and pick apart the cover when coming downhill. Just like a smart old turkey gobbler.
_________________________

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FoxPro Field Staff
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www.cronkpredatorcalls.com

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#83132 - 09/23/02 07:06 AM Re: Calling Tactics and Sounds?
Rich Cronk Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 7135
Loc: Western Iowa
Our friend GC is just full of good information. Here is some more of it----
Concerning the calling distance. Often you hear someone give the advise to move one mile between stands. I'm sure that is great advise in the more open parts of the country, but in the heavy cover, up and down, twisting terrain of the big woods I seldom go over 1/4 mile between stands. If I have the wind in my face and am traveling down a ridge top I may call off each side of the ridge into the hollows, first on one side, then the other. In a bottom as I travel along the side hills and points I may well do the same thing alternating sides going as little sometimes as 250 yards between stands. If I'm calling into a big hollow or ridge complex I'm convinced the sound doesn't carry out of that particular area and across a ridge or into a different hollow very far. I've called 30 minutes into an area, flipped sides of the ridge and started again, or moved that 250 yards and set-up again, and called critters, both coyotes and bobcats. Just my experience with distance and sound carry in the really big timber and rougher terrain.
_________________________

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FoxPro Field Staff
-------------------------
www.cronkpredatorcalls.com

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#83133 - 09/23/02 07:09 AM Re: Calling Tactics and Sounds?
Rich Cronk Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 7135
Loc: Western Iowa
Bob Mc,
The "Killer call" is a good long range call alright. I just don't want folks to get the idea that I only push my own calls. Bob, I know that you have some good calling advice for us so how about sharing a little of it?
_________________________

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FoxPro Field Staff
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www.cronkpredatorcalls.com

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#83134 - 09/23/02 08:55 AM Re: Calling Tactics and Sounds?
Rich Cronk Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 7135
Loc: Western Iowa
More from GC----
Jimmie,
Concerning the calling distance. Often you hear someone give the advise to move one mile between stands. I'm sure that is great advise in the more open parts of the country, but in the heavy cover, up and down, twisting terrain of the big woods I seldom go over 1/4 mile between stands. If I have the wind in my face and am traveling down a ridge top I may call off each side of the ridge into the hollows, first on one side, then the other. In a bottom as I travel along the side hills and points I may well do the same thing alternating sides going as little sometimes as 250 yards between stands. If I'm calling into a big hollow or ridge complex I'm convinced the sound doesn't carry out of that particular area and across a ridge or into a different hollow very far. I've called 30 minutes into an area, flipped sides of the ridge and started again, or moved that 250 yards and set-up again, and called critters, both coyotes and bobcats. Just my experience with distance and sound carry in the really big timber and rougher terrain.
_________________________

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FoxPro Field Staff
-------------------------
www.cronkpredatorcalls.com

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#83135 - 09/23/02 05:27 PM Re: Calling Tactics and Sounds?
Bob Mc Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 597
Loc: Fort Jones, California, USA
Bob Mc,
The Killer Call" is a good long range call alright. I just don't want folks to get the idea that I only push my own calls. Bob, I know that you have some good calling advice for us so how about sharing a little of it?"

Rich, you don't push them enough! You make some great calls, but I guess the regulars here already know that.

I've just been reading the old posts by GC that you have copied and pasted here. Don't remember reading them before, but this is really good stuff. Don't know how I missed it before, but maybe I was away somewhere when it appeared the first time around. Or maybe I did see it and have forgotten (Old Timer's Disease).

We often have newcomers post here asking questions about calling cougars. I assume GC is primarily talking about coyotes, but go back and re-read these posts and think "cougar". This is basic COUGAR 101! Work those ridge tops, saddles, and side ridges. Get out of the truck and start walking. 90% of lion hunting is scouting. Check every saddle, and the places where side ridges join the main ridge for tracks and "lion markers"; the scratch marks the cats make to communicate with each other. If a cat left its sign there once, it will be back. Check and recheck, and see if there is a pattern. Call those places often.

You don't want just one place where you saw a cat track once. You want a bunch of them. The hardest part of calling in a lion is being there at the same time the lion is. The more places you have to call, where lions travel and leave their sign on a regular basis, the better your odds. It takes a lot of time and foot work, but every once in awhile it all comes together and that cat walks in like it ownes the place!
_________________________
If you can't do it with a dog, it probably isn't worth doin'.

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#83136 - 09/23/02 07:37 PM Re: Calling Tactics and Sounds?
Rich Cronk Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 7135
Loc: Western Iowa
Bob Mc,
Those great posts by GC were originally made on the thread entitled (Rich, GC I need to pick your brain" by Jimmie from Kaintuck.

Guys,
If you want to know about calling cougars just butter up to Bob Mc a little. This man don't say much unless you ask him real nice, but he sure does know his cougar calling.
_________________________

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FoxPro Field Staff
-------------------------
www.cronkpredatorcalls.com

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#83137 - 09/23/02 08:18 PM Re: Calling Tactics and Sounds?
Jimmie in Ky Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 03/14/00
Posts: 3133
Loc: Mayfield KY
Steve M, There are only two companies that I know fo that make those calls. Burnham Bros mini squeal and Johnny Stewart close range call.

Mouth calls fall into several categories. The litel bite type like the mini squeal, Turkey diaphram calls, closed reeds, open reeds , and bite calls.

Personally I prefer the bite calls like the JS PC3 and the Sceery ap6. You can get raspy sounds liek a jackrabbit or the high pitched squeal fo the cottontail. Even puppy whines can be managed with practice. Volume with these calls can be anything you need at the time. Bite down hard and blow with short burst's an dyou get a fair mouse sqeek.If there are any must have calls these two are it.

Next would be the critter call pee wee model. I can't get eth volume from it but it's versatility is tremendous.Fawn bleats to coon squalls, great little calls.

Rich, I'm always ready to help with product developement Jimmie

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#83138 - 09/23/02 09:35 PM Re: Calling Tactics and Sounds?
GC Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17231
Loc: Missouri
Rich,
Thanks for doing that. As slow as I type it can be a real chore at times.

Bob Mc,
I am primarily talking of coyotes, but do call a bobcat occasionally. I usually look for slightly different areas here in the Missouri Ozarks for bobcats. I look for water in the form of ponds, lakes, creek, and spring drainages. Especially with some good rocky cliff, ledge, and boulder pile cover. Lots of brushy cover nearby is helpful. Good thermal cover in the form of evergreens, cedars and pines adds to a good cat stand. I think all this is as much for the prey of the cat, as for the cat itself. The same mice, chipmunks, rabbits, shrews, squirrels, turkeys, and fawns that the coyote uses, so do the cat's. Additionally I think bobcats in my neck of the woods use the little low nesting birds such as chickadee's for prey. And that's why the brushy cover is so important. I stay longer on stand, as much as an hour most often when specifically calling for bobcats. And I use "busier" higher pitched sounds for the most part.

I don't have any experience with cougers though about a mile from my deer stand a Conservation Agent took video tape of a couger on a deer kill. They're protected in Missouri right now and sightings are growing each year. It's now been documented that Missouri has a resident wild population of the big cats. Probably pretty small in number.

Same for black bears regarding a resident population. The bear population in the Ozarks has been estimated from as little as 400 to maybe 1,000 bears. The area that I call most often has quite a few bears in it. They've torn up turkey and deer hunters camps and the U.S. Forest Service has warnings in their Ozark campgrounds about camping in bear country. A non-resident turkey hunter killed one last year as it wandered into his turkey camp at night. He wasn't threatned by the bear so was fined heavily for shooting it. Missouri's Conservation Department has been trapping problem bears the last couple of years and moving them away from humans as much as possible. I heard a pretty reliable rumor that they actually killed one particular bear that just wouldn't go along with the program and continued to get more and more aggresive as he raided farms and such.

We also have a population of feral hogs that range in the woods in my favorite section of National Forest. I've cut hog sign several times and a friend has killed a couple of them. So sometimes I wonder just exactly what I might call on a stand!
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

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#83139 - 09/23/02 09:53 PM Re: Calling Tactics and Sounds?
Rich Cronk Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 7135
Loc: Western Iowa
Jimmie,
Speaking of product development, I have something that I would like to send you to test during your hunt on the LBL. Send me your mailing address please. I'm glad that you mentioned the Stewart PC-3, as it was my favorite call for several years. I'm also glad that you mentioned that little Stewart close range call. I don't know what Stewart calls that little harmonica type bugger (I forgot) but I really like it better than the Burnham mini-squeal.
_________________________

--------
FoxPro Field Staff
-------------------------
www.cronkpredatorcalls.com

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#83140 - 09/23/02 10:44 PM Re: Calling Tactics and Sounds?
SteveM Offline
Retired PM Staff

Registered: 01/26/02
Posts: 7617
Called in my first two yotes of the season between 6 and 6:30pm today with my new Crit-R-Call std. Had the last hours of the day pegged as we have been discussing in populated areas. Worked a new area where a large ditch had been dug out during the summer to clean up for flow of water. Less than quarter mile from farmers house. One side clean other bushy. Dry for most part some water. As we have been talking, figured this to be a good travel area with cotton field on one side, small cotton strip field on other with fencerow and big levi. Very windy today, set-up on bushy side of ditch in bottom with wind just right. Expected yotes to travel through ditch 10ft deep. Great concealment and visibility for miles. Called 10 min looked up and yote bouncing along top of ditch between clean side and cotton strip out in the open looking for crazy rabbit. Could not believe I missed that perfect shot!!!

Second stand. Fairly open area, only moved about 500 yards into the wind down ditch. This time set up on clean side of ditch with back to short fence line. Can see well down ditch and treeline beside levi with small cattle opening to right. Better set-up for what had just happened?? 10 min into call,just stopped callin when heard something behind me. Slowly looked around and big male yote standing broadside 4 ft behind me on other side of short fence line looking for crazy rabbit. He took two steps more, got my wind, afterburners on!! He came down opposite side of fencerow which ran into my fence line. Therefore should turn yote and move right in front of me for shot. Wrong! Unknowing to me was a small opening in my fenceline allowing him to enter and get behind me! Oh well!!

Morale of story is this. Look for the type travel areas talked about above when scouting. They can be productive in farm country like mine. Don't think you have to be in the middle of no-where to call yotes either. One may not have to move as far between stands a some may say! No matter how good you think a stand set-up is, a yote can find a variable no matter how small to screw it up for you. Expect the un-expected!

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#83141 - 09/23/02 10:53 PM Re: Calling Tactics and Sounds?
SteveM Offline
Retired PM Staff

Registered: 01/26/02
Posts: 7617
I have an old PC1 JS with button bite but have never seen the ones you guys are talking about. This one is pretty good at squeaks. Will have to look on their website. Today was the first time I ever used a Crit-R-Call. It was pretty impressive on the shy yotes we have around here and I am not that good!!

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#83142 - 09/23/02 11:52 PM Re: Calling Tactics and Sounds?
Bob Mc Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 597
Loc: Fort Jones, California, USA
GC,

Thatís half the fascination of predator calling to me. You never know for sure what might show up!

Interesting that you have a building cougar population in Missouri. Not the place I would expect to find them, but I guess they are spreading more and more now that they are protected. Iíve also heard reports of them in North Carolina and Tennessee.

Cougar tend to feed more on deer when they are available, but they can also get by on rabbits and other small game if need be. You are right in that bobcats are found in the more rocky and brushy areas, hunting for small game like mice, rabbits and birds. In this country ground squirrels are a mainstay of all small predators, at least during the spring, summer, and fall. They hole up for the winter. I suspect that the bobcats also hang out near the thick stuff for protection from the coyotes.

Incidentally, a bobcat (and gray fox) will pass up a dozen rabbits for a quail. Cats love birds! Surprising to many people is how much lions love poultry. South of here, turkey farms have a problem with lions. They say the turkey farms apply for as many, or more, depredation permits for lion as the sheep ranchers.
_________________________
If you can't do it with a dog, it probably isn't worth doin'.

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