NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy...
- Thread starter GC
- Start date
Half my stands will be in the new "no-lead zone" starting July 1. This from Beretta.
"Beretta was advised by Remington Ammunition Division in July of 2004 that the formulation of Hevi-Shot has undergone changes. Remington Ammunition has done independent testing with Beretta shotguns and advise that the tests indicate no damage to the barrels with the use of Hevi-Shot. As with steel shot, it is recommended to use a steel proof (SP) choke tube that is no tighter than Modified."
"Beretta was advised by Remington Ammunition Division in July of 2004 that the formulation of Hevi-Shot has undergone changes. Remington Ammunition has done independent testing with Beretta shotguns and advise that the tests indicate no damage to the barrels with the use of Hevi-Shot. As with steel shot, it is recommended to use a steel proof (SP) choke tube that is no tighter than Modified."
wow this is some really great info! really good work
i've saved up a lot of cash over the years so im thinking im finally going to buy my 1st gun=mossy 500 12ga
after what i've read do you guys think it would make sense to go with the hevi-shot dead coyote choke and team that up with the corresponding shot for coyote and turkey hunting?
i've saved up a lot of cash over the years so im thinking im finally going to buy my 1st gun=mossy 500 12ga
after what i've read do you guys think it would make sense to go with the hevi-shot dead coyote choke and team that up with the corresponding shot for coyote and turkey hunting?
derbyacresbob
Well-known member
Welcome to Predator Masters DannyBoy! The Carlson's Dead Coyote choke has worked good for me with big pellet coyote loads.
GC
Well-known member
Danny,
My dad hunts with a Mossberg 500 Camo Turkey Gun and a Hastings .660" choke. He shoots Federal Premium No. 4 Buck for predators and Winchester Supreme Hi-Velocity plated lead #5's for turkeys. He's killed a lot of game over the years with that old shotgun. It does a very solid workman like job in the woods.
My dad hunts with a Mossberg 500 Camo Turkey Gun and a Hastings .660" choke. He shoots Federal Premium No. 4 Buck for predators and Winchester Supreme Hi-Velocity plated lead #5's for turkeys. He's killed a lot of game over the years with that old shotgun. It does a very solid workman like job in the woods.
Quote:
Danny,
My dad hunts with a Mossberg 500 Camo Turkey Gun and a Hastings .660" choke. He shoots Federal Premium No. 4 Buck for predators and Winchester Supreme Hi-Velocity plated lead #5's for turkeys. He's killed a lot of game over the years with that old shotgun. It does a very solid workman like job in the woods.
thanks a lot!
this really helps and by the way your the man for posting all those shot patterns
Danny,
My dad hunts with a Mossberg 500 Camo Turkey Gun and a Hastings .660" choke. He shoots Federal Premium No. 4 Buck for predators and Winchester Supreme Hi-Velocity plated lead #5's for turkeys. He's killed a lot of game over the years with that old shotgun. It does a very solid workman like job in the woods.
thanks a lot!
this really helps and by the way your the man for posting all those shot patterns
Questions / New Scenario
Brush, cover, heavy undergrowth. Be it swamps, hardwoods , thick cottontail rabbit country,etc.
Fox as or more likely than Coyote.
Average shot distance 15-20 yards, 30 yards max. Beyond that because of the brush & undergrowth you likely would only see glimpses.
You may likely stand rather than sit in many of your sets because of the sight advantage point amongst the undercover brush.
The called in predator will likely be on the move for the shot. You may have to swing through the moving predator while squeezing the trigger some of the time.
Most of this thread is about achieving distance of 40 even 50 yards with a shotgun in apparently more open terrain.
What pattern, choke, shot type , barrel, shotgun in general would you look for ideally when calling these brush predators?
Brush, cover, heavy undergrowth. Be it swamps, hardwoods , thick cottontail rabbit country,etc.
Fox as or more likely than Coyote.
Average shot distance 15-20 yards, 30 yards max. Beyond that because of the brush & undergrowth you likely would only see glimpses.
You may likely stand rather than sit in many of your sets because of the sight advantage point amongst the undercover brush.
The called in predator will likely be on the move for the shot. You may have to swing through the moving predator while squeezing the trigger some of the time.
Most of this thread is about achieving distance of 40 even 50 yards with a shotgun in apparently more open terrain.
What pattern, choke, shot type , barrel, shotgun in general would you look for ideally when calling these brush predators?
GC
Well-known member
Quote:
Questions / New Scenario
Brush, cover, heavy undergrowth. Be it swamps, hardwoods , thick cottontail rabbit country,etc.
Fox as or more likely than Coyote.
Average shot distance 15-20 yards, 30 yards max. Beyond that because of the brush & undergrowth you likely would only see glimpses.
You may likely stand rather than sit in many of your sets because of the sight advantage point amongst the undercover brush.
The called in predator will likely be on the move for the shot. You may have to swing through the moving predator while squeezing the trigger some of the time.
Most of this thread is about achieving distance of 40 even 50 yards with a shotgun in apparently more open terrain.
What pattern, choke, shot type , barrel, shotgun in general would you look for ideally when calling these brush predators?
Really good question. In that case I would take that short barreled Benelli M1 Tactical Model, screw in a modified choke, and shoot the same Remington HD-BB load. Several loads would work as well most likely. Heavy loads of plated lead #2's, B, BB, or No. Four Buck would work great out to 30 yards in that situation. As would any "denser than lead" stuff like Hevi-Shot and Remington HD in those same sizes. I would use a more open choke to give a larger, more forgiving pattern. My thinking with the HD-BB shot is that the harder, heavier, and large shot may just cut through the brush a little better to reach the target, or, may reach the animal in better undeformed condition. That of course would improve penetration and reliable kills. The short barrel, open sights, and fast shooting semi-auto would be easy to handle, swing, point, and, apply more lead quickly if needed in cover that tight. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Questions / New Scenario
Brush, cover, heavy undergrowth. Be it swamps, hardwoods , thick cottontail rabbit country,etc.
Fox as or more likely than Coyote.
Average shot distance 15-20 yards, 30 yards max. Beyond that because of the brush & undergrowth you likely would only see glimpses.
You may likely stand rather than sit in many of your sets because of the sight advantage point amongst the undercover brush.
The called in predator will likely be on the move for the shot. You may have to swing through the moving predator while squeezing the trigger some of the time.
Most of this thread is about achieving distance of 40 even 50 yards with a shotgun in apparently more open terrain.
What pattern, choke, shot type , barrel, shotgun in general would you look for ideally when calling these brush predators?
Really good question. In that case I would take that short barreled Benelli M1 Tactical Model, screw in a modified choke, and shoot the same Remington HD-BB load. Several loads would work as well most likely. Heavy loads of plated lead #2's, B, BB, or No. Four Buck would work great out to 30 yards in that situation. As would any "denser than lead" stuff like Hevi-Shot and Remington HD in those same sizes. I would use a more open choke to give a larger, more forgiving pattern. My thinking with the HD-BB shot is that the harder, heavier, and large shot may just cut through the brush a little better to reach the target, or, may reach the animal in better undeformed condition. That of course would improve penetration and reliable kills. The short barrel, open sights, and fast shooting semi-auto would be easy to handle, swing, point, and, apply more lead quickly if needed in cover that tight. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Joel Hughes
New member
.
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Brush Gun For Coyote,
Take two......
Just did a little pattern testing from standing off hand, 15-20 paces out back, through some brush. The number 2's & 4's were impressive. Less impressive was the number 4 buck & 00 buck. No BB's on hand but they would likely work also but I doubt they would have anything over on 2's & 4's at close "brush" range os 15-20 paces nor on Fox.
Standard modified choke over full.
24"-28" barrel.
Bead or vent rib site.
It made me re-think some things......
Take two......
Just did a little pattern testing from standing off hand, 15-20 paces out back, through some brush. The number 2's & 4's were impressive. Less impressive was the number 4 buck & 00 buck. No BB's on hand but they would likely work also but I doubt they would have anything over on 2's & 4's at close "brush" range os 15-20 paces nor on Fox.
Standard modified choke over full.
24"-28" barrel.
Bead or vent rib site.
It made me re-think some things......
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Great thread!!! I have a question as to a starting choke size for a Mossberg 535, for use in the 2-BB size shot? Any insight will be appreciated. I just traded off a Mossberg 500 that with my Hasting choke tube would put 5 pellets inside a 6 inch circle at 50 yards consistantly......boy am I an idiot. I was using cheap Remington 2 3/4 00 Buck 9 pellet load. The 3 inch stuff wouldn't shoot as well. I still have the choke tube so I will try it in the 535, just wanted to know where to start for best patterning on the smaller shot.
derbyacresbob
Well-known member
I got 7 lbs of "B" Hevi-Shot and a Hevi-Shot reloading manual from Ballistic Products Inc and loaded up some light 12 ga Hevi-Shot loads today. I will have to use non-toxic shot for hunting coyotes after July 1st of this year. I wanted to load up some lower recoil loads than the factory 3" loads so if I get a chance to take some kids or ladies coyote calling I will have some shells for them to shoot. I ended up loading 1-1/8 oz of "B" shot in a Federal Gold Medal 2-3/4" hull. I loaded up three of them and went out and shot them at paper and a telephone book. They shot pretty good through my 11-87 with a Carlson's Dead Coyote choke in it. I counted the pellets in four 1-1/8 oz loads of Hevi-Shot and there was between 54 and 61 pellets in those four loads. I weighed each shot charge and put buffer in these loads.
I shot a paper plate taped to the telephone book at 30 yards and had 22 "B" pellets hit the paper plate.
I shot the same 1-1/8 oz load at 40 yards and had 11 pellets hit the paper plate. I shot a Federal Premium 3" 1-7/8 oz copper coated BB load into the same telephone book as the Hevi-Shot "B" pellets. The Hevi-Shot "B" pellets averaged 842 pages of penetration while the Federal copper coated lead BB's averaged 740 pages of penetration. I reloaded 50 shells today and only tipped one over that was not crimped yet on my loading bench. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
I shot a paper plate taped to the telephone book at 30 yards and had 22 "B" pellets hit the paper plate.
I shot the same 1-1/8 oz load at 40 yards and had 11 pellets hit the paper plate. I shot a Federal Premium 3" 1-7/8 oz copper coated BB load into the same telephone book as the Hevi-Shot "B" pellets. The Hevi-Shot "B" pellets averaged 842 pages of penetration while the Federal copper coated lead BB's averaged 740 pages of penetration. I reloaded 50 shells today and only tipped one over that was not crimped yet on my loading bench. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
Joel Hughes
New member
.
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derbyacresbob
Well-known member
Quote:
Good job Bob. That's the shot I load in my 10 gauge. Pretty time-consuming ordeal, isn't it? I enjoy it though.
Joel Hughes, it does take quite a while to load them but I have a good time doing it. I am going to load up the rest of my "B" Hevi-Shot today, I should get right at 100 shells out of that 7 pound bag.
Good job Bob. That's the shot I load in my 10 gauge. Pretty time-consuming ordeal, isn't it? I enjoy it though.
Joel Hughes, it does take quite a while to load them but I have a good time doing it. I am going to load up the rest of my "B" Hevi-Shot today, I should get right at 100 shells out of that 7 pound bag.
Gun - circa 1947 Winchester M-12 / Choke - Fixed I.Mod. / Barrel - 28"
Ammo- Fed. Prem. 2 3/4" #4 Buck Mag / 34 shot
Use- Fox,Cotote,H.D.
Shooting positions- 50 yard=prone w) bag, 40 yard = prone w) bag, 35 yard kneeling, 25 yard standing, 7 yard standing
Pic 1 = Range w) 30" NRA Shotgun Targets
Pic 2 = 7 Yard low Left 3 1/2" dia. pattern,standing, point of impact dead on. 25 yard center,standing, 100% pattern, main pattern minus fliers 15" dia.
Pic 3 = 35 yard, 31 of 34 shot, 92%, kneeling pos.
Pic 4 = 40 yard from prone w) bag, 30 of 34 shot, 90%
Pic 5 = 50 yard from prone w) bag, 22 of 34 shot, 65%
Sorry photo quality from cell phone. Hope this helps others.
Ammo- Fed. Prem. 2 3/4" #4 Buck Mag / 34 shot
Use- Fox,Cotote,H.D.
Shooting positions- 50 yard=prone w) bag, 40 yard = prone w) bag, 35 yard kneeling, 25 yard standing, 7 yard standing
Pic 1 = Range w) 30" NRA Shotgun Targets
Pic 2 = 7 Yard low Left 3 1/2" dia. pattern,standing, point of impact dead on. 25 yard center,standing, 100% pattern, main pattern minus fliers 15" dia.
Pic 3 = 35 yard, 31 of 34 shot, 92%, kneeling pos.
Pic 4 = 40 yard from prone w) bag, 30 of 34 shot, 90%
Pic 5 = 50 yard from prone w) bag, 22 of 34 shot, 65%
Sorry photo quality from cell phone. Hope this helps others.
GC
Well-known member
First, thank you for taking the time to photograph your results and post them here. I know that takes extra effort and time.
One thing regarding the percentages you have listed. A 30" inch circle is the standard for measuring a pattern of small shot for hunting winged or fast moving small game and/or clay targets in the various shotgun target sports. However, it means very little to a predator hunter. It is that 12" at point of aim that is critical.
Isn't it interesting how much difference even five yards makes in a shotgun pattern? Witness your 35 yard target and the 40 yard target. At 35 yards you have a killer gun, choke, load combo. At 40 yards the odds favor the the coyote.
Also, one shot doesn't always tell the tale. I've seen some really odd things with shotshells. In my testing at the beginning of this thread at one time I fired a round and was instantly amazed at the totally saturated target center. I got really hyped about that and was hopeful to see that performance in the next shots. Unfortunately, the first shot was a fluke and after four more targets I could never repeat the first shot performance. Weird stuff happens sometimes... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
Good on ya for taking the time to figure all this out before heading afield and squeezing the trigger on live game. Watching a critter run off after the shot, maybe wounded, is not the time to be thinking about stuff like this. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
One thing regarding the percentages you have listed. A 30" inch circle is the standard for measuring a pattern of small shot for hunting winged or fast moving small game and/or clay targets in the various shotgun target sports. However, it means very little to a predator hunter. It is that 12" at point of aim that is critical.
Isn't it interesting how much difference even five yards makes in a shotgun pattern? Witness your 35 yard target and the 40 yard target. At 35 yards you have a killer gun, choke, load combo. At 40 yards the odds favor the the coyote.
Also, one shot doesn't always tell the tale. I've seen some really odd things with shotshells. In my testing at the beginning of this thread at one time I fired a round and was instantly amazed at the totally saturated target center. I got really hyped about that and was hopeful to see that performance in the next shots. Unfortunately, the first shot was a fluke and after four more targets I could never repeat the first shot performance. Weird stuff happens sometimes... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
Good on ya for taking the time to figure all this out before heading afield and squeezing the trigger on live game. Watching a critter run off after the shot, maybe wounded, is not the time to be thinking about stuff like this. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
GC,
The called predators have been "fast moving small game" once with in shotgun range in my terrain. Much more like shooting at a big rabbit than a called Turkey. The standard NRA 30" show the big picture of whats really happening, I can still see the small picture with in it. I prefer to see the big picture.........I like them.
This is a sticky. A little extra time now, beats pulling targets and re-thinking latter.
The called predators have been "fast moving small game" once with in shotgun range in my terrain. Much more like shooting at a big rabbit than a called Turkey. The standard NRA 30" show the big picture of whats really happening, I can still see the small picture with in it. I prefer to see the big picture.........I like them.
This is a sticky. A little extra time now, beats pulling targets and re-thinking latter.
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GC
Well-known member
Bill,
Agreed that a large backing paper reveals important information, such as point of impact as it relates to point of aim, "doughnut" patterning, ect. I guess what I'm trying to point out, not to you because you have a handle on this, but for the reader that is new at shotgunning critters, reading your percentage figures for the complete 30" circle might lead one to believe the gun/choke/shot is performing better than it actually is. I'm looking over the 40 yard target and it says 90%, yet there is only one pellet strike in the center at point of aim. The other pellets look to be far enough away as to maybe not be helpful in the sense that a coyote doesn't have a 30" vital zone. That 12" right at point of aim is the critical measurement IMHO.
Now as you pointed out, if you are "wingshooting" those real fast flyers at close ranges - you have a really good rig for out to as far as 35 yards! And in that situation, 35 yards is a pretty far shot in really dense brush and a wider pattern might be a real asset to you. Again, thanks for sharing your findings, it will be helpful to many and is a good contribution to this thread. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Agreed that a large backing paper reveals important information, such as point of impact as it relates to point of aim, "doughnut" patterning, ect. I guess what I'm trying to point out, not to you because you have a handle on this, but for the reader that is new at shotgunning critters, reading your percentage figures for the complete 30" circle might lead one to believe the gun/choke/shot is performing better than it actually is. I'm looking over the 40 yard target and it says 90%, yet there is only one pellet strike in the center at point of aim. The other pellets look to be far enough away as to maybe not be helpful in the sense that a coyote doesn't have a 30" vital zone. That 12" right at point of aim is the critical measurement IMHO.
Now as you pointed out, if you are "wingshooting" those real fast flyers at close ranges - you have a really good rig for out to as far as 35 yards! And in that situation, 35 yards is a pretty far shot in really dense brush and a wider pattern might be a real asset to you. Again, thanks for sharing your findings, it will be helpful to many and is a good contribution to this thread. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif