NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy...
- Thread starter GC
- Start date
Nice thread /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
To go with it.
I would appreciate thoughts on various shot size used for coyote & fox with the assumption it patterns well. Pros & Cons of killpower at various ranges, penetration, etc. etc. Most of this has been on no 4 Buck and Tee shot. 00 is easy to find locally for many, thoughts? Locally many Coyotes are taken with Turkey loads while calling Turkey in the woods, thoughts........and everything in-between (ex. 0s through Turkey).
4s,2s,Bees,Tees,4b,1b,0bs,etc.
Thanks
To go with it.
I would appreciate thoughts on various shot size used for coyote & fox with the assumption it patterns well. Pros & Cons of killpower at various ranges, penetration, etc. etc. Most of this has been on no 4 Buck and Tee shot. 00 is easy to find locally for many, thoughts? Locally many Coyotes are taken with Turkey loads while calling Turkey in the woods, thoughts........and everything in-between (ex. 0s through Turkey).
4s,2s,Bees,Tees,4b,1b,0bs,etc.
Thanks
GC
Well-known member
I'll take a shot at it (no pun intended). The large buckshot like 00 Buck has too few pellets and leaves gaps in the pattern that a coyote can literally walk through at longish ranges. Or worse yet, you just poke a hole or two somewhere... maybe in the paunch, or jaw, or who knowns where and the coyote runs off wounded. Some guys rely on what I call the "Magic Pellet Theory" in which they hope for a single lucky strike from one of the big balls to somehow hit a vital area. It's a poor plan indeed, as luck makes for a poor partner and will more than likely lead to lost coyotes. At close ranges where the pattern has held together the large buckshot can absolutely flatten a coyote - but no better than a more versatile load of mid-range shot like BB/T/No. 4BK. At long ranges the large buck is a real handicap because of the low number of pellets. Large buck such as 00 Buck really has little to offer a coyote hunter.
The smaller shot lacks anchoring power much beyond 30 yards or so. Coyotes are tough - period. Coyotes can take a lickin' and keep on tickin'. They also have thick fur which soaks up blood. Little pellets make little holes which don't leak much fluid. Coyotes have soft feet and do not cut the ground with tracks that are easy to follow like a hard hooved animal like a deer. All this adds up to lost animals unless the ranges are short to low mid-range with the small shot sizes. I've shot somewhere around a dozen with turkey loads and they ALL RAN OFF! I found most of them with some tough tracking jobs and a heaping measure of luck on my side. None were much under 100 yards, some over twice that distance. That is too far to look for one in the thick cover we normally use a shotgun in. Wounded coyotes will crawl into logs and under rock overhangs and creek banks ect. You will loose coyotes this way. If I were restricted to shot size under BB, then I would select the absolute largest shot size allowed by law and shoot the fastest load of "denser than lead" stuff like Hevi-Shot or Remington HD. AND, I would restrict the range of the shot to where I could reliably get at least a dozen of those smaller pellets within a 6" circle at point of aim in the center of the pattern. Think no more than 35 yards to at the very most 40 yards even with such a great pattern and at least 3" .12 ga magnums.
There's a good reason most experienced coyote hunters think of shot sizes from BB, T-shot, and No. 4BK for coyotes... Because these are the absolute best combinations of pellet count, hole punching size, energy retention, and penetration, for reliably anchoring coyotes. They are a reliable and historically proven recipe when combinined with a proven choke for shotgun coyote hunting. Why look elsewhere? After all, this is the end result we seek...
The smaller shot lacks anchoring power much beyond 30 yards or so. Coyotes are tough - period. Coyotes can take a lickin' and keep on tickin'. They also have thick fur which soaks up blood. Little pellets make little holes which don't leak much fluid. Coyotes have soft feet and do not cut the ground with tracks that are easy to follow like a hard hooved animal like a deer. All this adds up to lost animals unless the ranges are short to low mid-range with the small shot sizes. I've shot somewhere around a dozen with turkey loads and they ALL RAN OFF! I found most of them with some tough tracking jobs and a heaping measure of luck on my side. None were much under 100 yards, some over twice that distance. That is too far to look for one in the thick cover we normally use a shotgun in. Wounded coyotes will crawl into logs and under rock overhangs and creek banks ect. You will loose coyotes this way. If I were restricted to shot size under BB, then I would select the absolute largest shot size allowed by law and shoot the fastest load of "denser than lead" stuff like Hevi-Shot or Remington HD. AND, I would restrict the range of the shot to where I could reliably get at least a dozen of those smaller pellets within a 6" circle at point of aim in the center of the pattern. Think no more than 35 yards to at the very most 40 yards even with such a great pattern and at least 3" .12 ga magnums.
There's a good reason most experienced coyote hunters think of shot sizes from BB, T-shot, and No. 4BK for coyotes... Because these are the absolute best combinations of pellet count, hole punching size, energy retention, and penetration, for reliably anchoring coyotes. They are a reliable and historically proven recipe when combinined with a proven choke for shotgun coyote hunting. Why look elsewhere? After all, this is the end result we seek...
remington870
New member
I've had complete opposite results with turkey loads as GC I have shot around 30 with turkey loads and seen several more shot and they all get knocked right over from a head shot from a dense pattern of number 5's Even past 40 yards. I have had 2 runners from body shots but fast second shots stopped that. There are so many coyote killed with turkey loads each spring they are just as proven on coyote as any other load maybe more so. With that said the bigger shot sizes such as number 4 buck will break a coyote down and stop a runner or a less than perfect shot angle much more. I don't think turkey loads should be used by everyone. I call my coyote in very close in very thick cover much thicker than the woods GC is in the above pic. I have to hunt different areas then normal to try and get 40+ yard shots. I got in from calling about 30 min. ago I called in one coyote in some thick cattails to about 15 yards one shot to the face from some nickel 5's and he was dead. Called another in to about the same range in some tall marsh grass and cane with the same results. I don't like hunting open areas. Even here in the farmland I find thick stuff to call in most times.
Again very informative thread. Thanks all.
I appreciate the replys on shot choice.
Rem 870 - I mentioned the Turkey loads because a whole lot of Coyotes are shot here by Turkey hunters and some much more avid than myself at calling coyotes also use such in the thick brush.
On the other hand the groups of avid coyote hunters locally that run dogs, I have spoke with, often use 00 Buckshot in the shotguners hand.
I have been patterning no. 4 buck again myself. I dont own a modern Turkey shotgun with xx full chokes. I did pattern from standard modified and full .695 fixed chokes on my home range.
What I found was the common un-plated no 4 buck easily found in local shops patterned much better through the modfied choke. The premium plated which I had to mail order patterned better out of the full choke. The .695 full did not like any of the un-plated commonly found no4 Buck.
For myself I prefered the modified choke with common un-plated no 4 Buck. That particular gun fits, points and impacts where pointed very well for me. Its a older Winchester Model 12 that has special meaning. I also prefered the what I think will be the more common 25 yard shot at moving games pattern. If I come accross a set, more open than ideal for the shotgun and dont have my rifle in which I feel there will be time to aim rather than point at somewhat stationary game. I will put some 1oz Super X or Fed rifled slugs in the old Model 12. From a rest I can cut clovers at 50 yards and from standing off hand non supported put slug after slug into a 8 inch kill zone at 50 yards. I think the 1oz slug should do the job on the 50 yard + shotguned coyote if its that open /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
BTW- For those interested. Of the un-plated #4 buck tested in my guns. The Federal Powershock, followed by the Rem. Express followed in a distant third by the Win. Super X patterned the best for me. And the 2.75 inch no 4s were were easy on the shoulder from the M-12........even enjoyable to shoot. If you have a old Ithaca coontail,Rem 870,Winchester M-12 with a modified choke sitting in the case, as many do, and want to take her for a spin. Try some un-plated number 4 Buck and maybe throw some some slugs in your pocket in case you stumble into a open area you want to call while taking her out for a spin. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Very nice to see some shotgun talk here. The AR-15 may well be "Americas Rifle" but the old 12 gauge is surely Americas Gun.
I appreciate the replys on shot choice.
Rem 870 - I mentioned the Turkey loads because a whole lot of Coyotes are shot here by Turkey hunters and some much more avid than myself at calling coyotes also use such in the thick brush.
On the other hand the groups of avid coyote hunters locally that run dogs, I have spoke with, often use 00 Buckshot in the shotguners hand.
I have been patterning no. 4 buck again myself. I dont own a modern Turkey shotgun with xx full chokes. I did pattern from standard modified and full .695 fixed chokes on my home range.
What I found was the common un-plated no 4 buck easily found in local shops patterned much better through the modfied choke. The premium plated which I had to mail order patterned better out of the full choke. The .695 full did not like any of the un-plated commonly found no4 Buck.
For myself I prefered the modified choke with common un-plated no 4 Buck. That particular gun fits, points and impacts where pointed very well for me. Its a older Winchester Model 12 that has special meaning. I also prefered the what I think will be the more common 25 yard shot at moving games pattern. If I come accross a set, more open than ideal for the shotgun and dont have my rifle in which I feel there will be time to aim rather than point at somewhat stationary game. I will put some 1oz Super X or Fed rifled slugs in the old Model 12. From a rest I can cut clovers at 50 yards and from standing off hand non supported put slug after slug into a 8 inch kill zone at 50 yards. I think the 1oz slug should do the job on the 50 yard + shotguned coyote if its that open /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
BTW- For those interested. Of the un-plated #4 buck tested in my guns. The Federal Powershock, followed by the Rem. Express followed in a distant third by the Win. Super X patterned the best for me. And the 2.75 inch no 4s were were easy on the shoulder from the M-12........even enjoyable to shoot. If you have a old Ithaca coontail,Rem 870,Winchester M-12 with a modified choke sitting in the case, as many do, and want to take her for a spin. Try some un-plated number 4 Buck and maybe throw some some slugs in your pocket in case you stumble into a open area you want to call while taking her out for a spin. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Very nice to see some shotgun talk here. The AR-15 may well be "Americas Rifle" but the old 12 gauge is surely Americas Gun.
ruger300
Active member
Well GC, my many thanks for this informative thread. Got myself a carlson's dead coyote choke for my mossberg 835. Mounted a cabela's pine ridge 2x green dot scope on it and patterned some win 3.5" #4buck. At 40yds I dialed it in for 9 lethal hits in a 6" circle at 40yds. I figured that was sufficient and would stay to that range for maximum damage. Well this afternoon I hauled the scattergun out as my hunting partner had his .204 for any long shots. As it worked out I called in my first red fox and anchored him at 45 yds with the shotgun.
Again thanks for all the info this topic has given me and killing my first called in redfox with the 12 gauge has made that event even more memorable.
ruger300
Again thanks for all the info this topic has given me and killing my first called in redfox with the 12 gauge has made that event even more memorable.
ruger300
GC
Well-known member
Hey Ruger congrat's, that is a beauty! There are some very good, solid contributions to the thread and I appreciate them all. I'm glad the info is helpful. I used my Benelli M1 Tac Model, Kick's .670", and Remington HD-BB's to take these two gray fox and this coyote yesterday. The combination worked perfectly and the shot on the coyote was long, through brush, and he was killed "DRT." I'll post their pic's here and a link to the hunt story also.
The hunt story...
http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubb...page=0#52706559
The hunt story...
http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubb...page=0#52706559
yotehunter74
New member
GC, I thank you for all the work you have put out to bring us all this information... and to those who have added on to it. I have a question... I am using a mossberg 835 tactical turkey with the 18"brl ... it is my new calling gun as I wanted something shorter than a 28" brl which was my other gun... I would like to know what you would think would be a good starting point... i have the xxfull xfactor tube they give you, a modified, and a full. i would buy whatever shot will work best... i have been using 3" #2's for fox and have had great luck with it. but i would like to find a good longer range yote shell... i had been using 00 buck and a modified tube.. it will work but want better range and groups... any help would be great as i can't afford to go and buy boxes of shells that "might" work... if I have to get a new choke tube thats fine as well.. just need some advice
GC
Well-known member
Well... You are the third person to ask me this today! Makes me a little uncomfortable. Fellows, I make no claims about being an expert. I learn everytime I pull the trigger, just like ya'll do. If something I stumble across helps someone else or prompts someone to do some shooting of their own and/or share an experience we all benefit.
With that said... about all anyone can do is give you a starting point. You will have to shoot some patterns and there aren't any guarantees. Consider your Mossberg barrel is overbored so you probably shouldn't choose too tight a choke, otherwise you'll risk the "donut pattern" in which you get an empty center and a ring of shot scattered around the point of aim. I would start my search for a good choke with something around the .680" constriction. I'd suggest a Kick's BuckKicker X-Full. The really cool thing about the Kick's chokes is if it doesn't shoot the way you want, Chuck at Kick's will work with you and swap chokes until you get something you like. That's a lot less expensive than having a drawer full of chokes you can't use. You can e-mail him and he is usually pretty close to spot on with his advise about constrictions for various shot sizes, ect.
As for loads, I'm really liking the HD-BB load. Lot's of very hard, round, fast pellets that penetrate extremely well and seem forgiving of choking and want to pattern well. There is a rebate currently going on in which you can get $15.00 back on a ten count box, so that softens the sting some. Is that helpful?
With that said... about all anyone can do is give you a starting point. You will have to shoot some patterns and there aren't any guarantees. Consider your Mossberg barrel is overbored so you probably shouldn't choose too tight a choke, otherwise you'll risk the "donut pattern" in which you get an empty center and a ring of shot scattered around the point of aim. I would start my search for a good choke with something around the .680" constriction. I'd suggest a Kick's BuckKicker X-Full. The really cool thing about the Kick's chokes is if it doesn't shoot the way you want, Chuck at Kick's will work with you and swap chokes until you get something you like. That's a lot less expensive than having a drawer full of chokes you can't use. You can e-mail him and he is usually pretty close to spot on with his advise about constrictions for various shot sizes, ect.
As for loads, I'm really liking the HD-BB load. Lot's of very hard, round, fast pellets that penetrate extremely well and seem forgiving of choking and want to pattern well. There is a rebate currently going on in which you can get $15.00 back on a ten count box, so that softens the sting some. Is that helpful?
yotehunter74
New member
VERY... I know no one has all the answers... even others with the same gun will have different results... but you have done more here to get people interested in just how their shotgun patterns than I have seen ... I thank you for leading me to Kicks tubes... I will check into them and give Chuck a call... I just wanted a starting point... I dont mind spending the money with a place to go.. but just running shells through 10 tubes with 40 different sizes and shot to me is unacceptable... I am really looking forward to seeing what happens and will keep you posted... with pics as it goes on...
I bought a box of remington hd 3" bb, hd 3" #2, box of federal premium copper plated bb, and winchester 3 1/2" 4 buck to do some patterning with when the wind lays, I will post the results.
Has anyone had better patterns from 3" 4 buck compared to 3 1/2" 4 buck, just curious.
Has anyone had better patterns from 3" 4 buck compared to 3 1/2" 4 buck, just curious.
Sorry no pictures.
Mossberg 500 turkey model 24" barrel with aimpoint sight and .675 HS Strut Undertaker choke tube. Target was a regular 8.5" x 11" piece of paper with a 5" diameter circle in the middle. Target was placed on a 2' x 2' piece of cardboard and tacked to a 4' x4' piece of 3/4" plywood. All shooting was at 40 yds from a bench.
Ammo was hevi Shot 3" 1 1/2 ounce of B shot at 1350fps.
I took five shots and averaged the hits in the 5" circle and the hits on the 8.5" x 11" paper.
Results = 5"circle= 17 hits
8.5" x 11" paper= 33 hits
The shot easily penetrated the plywood backing and you could see pieces of it being blown out onto the snow after every shot.
I know some of you think B size shot is to small but I really like the patterns I got and I do think that it will get the job done.
Mossberg 500 turkey model 24" barrel with aimpoint sight and .675 HS Strut Undertaker choke tube. Target was a regular 8.5" x 11" piece of paper with a 5" diameter circle in the middle. Target was placed on a 2' x 2' piece of cardboard and tacked to a 4' x4' piece of 3/4" plywood. All shooting was at 40 yds from a bench.
Ammo was hevi Shot 3" 1 1/2 ounce of B shot at 1350fps.
I took five shots and averaged the hits in the 5" circle and the hits on the 8.5" x 11" paper.
Results = 5"circle= 17 hits
8.5" x 11" paper= 33 hits
The shot easily penetrated the plywood backing and you could see pieces of it being blown out onto the snow after every shot.
I know some of you think B size shot is to small but I really like the patterns I got and I do think that it will get the job done.
coyote control
New member
Quote Mainiac:
"The shot easily penetrated the plywood backing and you could see pieces of it being blown out onto the snow after every shot."
Now that is good penetration I would say, to go thru the 3/4" plywood.
"The shot easily penetrated the plywood backing and you could see pieces of it being blown out onto the snow after every shot."
Now that is good penetration I would say, to go thru the 3/4" plywood.
Quote:
GC these BB from federal were the ones I was using in my testing this past weekend. They are the High velocity/density loads.
Here is one target shot at 25yds with that same load.
Like I said earlier the penetration seemed pretty good to me at 40yds, I dont really know what your pass/fail is on that, but im going to get some more shells and chokes out this weekend.
Maybe Borrow some phone books from work /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif and see what happens.
Dave
I just patterned that Federal BB load in 3.5" and was not impressed. It has a differant wad better for those seeking Homkers/wing shooting. Pricey, lack of penetration @ 40 yards. Its HD but still slightly less than lead. Hot load at 1450 fps to much recoil from my 7.5-8 pound gun.
I used a fixed full @ .695"
Finally broke down and ordered some Fed. Prem. 3" 4 buck this am (not available locally) to test along w) a Decelerator recoil pad. Noted while ordering from Midway the Winchester Supreme #4 Buck load that so many reported as excellant has been discontinued. They likey want us to buy there much more expensive new HD Coyote load now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
I would like to see the profit margin to the manufacture on the H.D. loads /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif........likely pretty fat.
GC these BB from federal were the ones I was using in my testing this past weekend. They are the High velocity/density loads.
Here is one target shot at 25yds with that same load.
Like I said earlier the penetration seemed pretty good to me at 40yds, I dont really know what your pass/fail is on that, but im going to get some more shells and chokes out this weekend.
Maybe Borrow some phone books from work /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif and see what happens.
Dave
I just patterned that Federal BB load in 3.5" and was not impressed. It has a differant wad better for those seeking Homkers/wing shooting. Pricey, lack of penetration @ 40 yards. Its HD but still slightly less than lead. Hot load at 1450 fps to much recoil from my 7.5-8 pound gun.
I used a fixed full @ .695"
Finally broke down and ordered some Fed. Prem. 3" 4 buck this am (not available locally) to test along w) a Decelerator recoil pad. Noted while ordering from Midway the Winchester Supreme #4 Buck load that so many reported as excellant has been discontinued. They likey want us to buy there much more expensive new HD Coyote load now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
I would like to see the profit margin to the manufacture on the H.D. loads /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif........likely pretty fat.
Last edited:
mgaines
New member
I patterned my 835 Mossberg yesterday evening. I was shooting at 40yds with 3.5" unplated #4 buck. I tried factory IC, Mod., full (.730), a Cabelas full (.727) and an extra full (.695). The cabelas (.727) patterned the best at 40 yards. The tighter extra-full was terrible compared to the full. It seems that most of you guys with the posts previous to mine had better luck with very tight chokes when shooting #4 buck. Do you think mine was a fluke or has anyone else had a similar experience?
Lungbuster
New member
mgaines,
If you have some, try the exact same thing again the next time you shoot but try the 3" instead. The few mossbergs that I have shot like 3" better than the 3.5"
If you have some, try the exact same thing again the next time you shoot but try the 3" instead. The few mossbergs that I have shot like 3" better than the 3.5"
ACBCS
New member
WOW these are the kinda posts that I like to find! Kinda makes me wish I had one of those cushy office jobs and lots of time to sit around all day and read more of these. Thanks to everyone for all their input, and fieldwork....Not that sending rounds downrange is ever WORK! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
