how are you doing the heat treat on the shot?

I have a lab oven with a PID controller that I can dial in to any temp I want. I have been doing the BPI Super Buck at 450 for an hour, and then quenching. Hardness goes from about 10 Bhn to 24 Bhn. I may try doing some at a higher temp, but I am close to max for the oven right now, so I am not sure how much harder it would actually get. Too hard and it will shatter when it hits bone anyway.

You can really see the difference when you drop the shot. I have a cast iron table for one of my machines, and when you drop the untreated shot it bounces about 1/2" and then stops. It sounds kinda dead when it hits too. The HT stuff bounces about 3-1/2" and you can hear a bit of a "ping" when it hits the surface and it will bounce about 3 or 4 times.

24 now but they will age soften depending on alloy, test again at 30 day intervals

For the guys curious about checking shotgun bores but don't want to buy an actual bore gauge, I found a set of spring loaded measuring gauges made for measuring inside of pipe at harbour freight for less than 20 bucks. You stick it in the barrel then twist the handle to lock it in place then pull it out and you can then measure it's position. I will do it a few times to make sure the measurements are consistent

WOW!

We went one year without a reply on GC's great old "NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results" post.

It blows me away how most shotgun shooters don't pay much attention to the loads they shoot and just use what is available to them locally.

A big percentage of rifle shooters are just the opposite. They reload their own ammo and wear their rifle barrels out trying to get under 1/2" groups at 200 yards.

"Scattergun"... what's to know?

Very interesting we are going completely lead free in about 4 years over here in UK .

I think the USA will not be far behind. Not a real issue though, the advancements in tungsten and bismuth make for some real nice loads. Steel breaks targets just fine. I wouldn't miss lead being banned.

I would miss lead shot. The combination of effectiveness, availability and very importantly cost per shot makes lead a good option.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lsqpbnjdz0em3ci/20211112_073235.jpg?dl=0....here is my contribution to keep this thread alive!...I pattern a lot of loads both Turkey and Predator specific stuff. This is one of my best and I was able to call/kill my 2nd ever this last week......I am humbled and grateful for the knowledge I gained from this thread!!.....more to come....

That's a great pattern

Hi all, I have read through this thread since it’s inception and referred back to it numerous times. I figured I should finally contribute to keep things at least crawling along!

What I have found over a bunch of years of pattern testing for predator shotguns is very much in line with what most of the experienced shotgunners have laid out in this thread. You had better do some pattern testing, and be prepared to do some more… and some more… and some more with different combinations of loads, chokes, barrel lengths and maybe even some soul selling to find something that works! Lol… I’m not ashamed to say that I have been envious as [beeep] at some of the patterns I’ve seen in this thread. I truly hope that some of them were repeatable, consistent patterns as every once in awhile a horrible combination will make you think you’ve arrived! Here's my story….

I started calling predators around 2000 or so and got hooked hard. My earliest setup was pretty much for fox only and it was my 870 short barrel turkey gun with a red dot. I was running a modified choke and steel T waterfowl loads and they would crush fox all day long! Well, all night long I should say. After calling in my first coyote (never got a shot off btw) I became obsessed with calling for them. The fellow that introduced me to this addiction respectfully warned me that my loads were not ideal and I needed to move up to something with a bit more punch. And that’s when all of the fun started! “Fun” can be extremely frustrating as I found out!

I’ve always shot Remington shotguns. Local pride I guess as I’m only about 15 minutes from the Ilion NY plant. BTW, Remington is a mere shadow of it’s former self in my opinion, and doubt I would buy the current production they’re turning out? I digress… I bought some 3” Remington 4 buck loads and grabbed my limited supply of chokes and hit the patterning board. After about 20 rounds and 4 chokes worth of disappointment I figured that Remington must have screwed up that lot of 4 buck! I was lucky to get more than a few pellets on a 24”x24” square paper at 40 yards with any of the combinations. I purchased different loads and the copper plated federals were better but not what I would call great. At the time I was told don’t go tighter than Modified with buckshot. Well I knew from testing that Full was slightly better, but again, not great. It took me quite awhile to convince myself that extra full was worth trying. I’d been told I’d bulge barrels and blow chokes by about half of the people that I talked to. The other half didn’t have much input other than “try it and see what happens!” I think it was on ebay that I bought a factory Remington Extra Full extended tube. I think it was around a .690” but not sure exactly? I had a .665” at the time but figured that was far too tight for buckshot. Well the extra full was awful! Worse than the full. I felt defeated and dug into the research a bit and read where guys were using copper plated BB. So I bought some Federal WingShok 3” BB loads and hit the patterning boards again. Better by quite a bit through that EF choke and that became my load for some time. Not the best, but it would work out to 35 yards or so.

Dead Coyote comes on the scene! I saw the ads. I read the hype… 70 yard kills etc. I had to try it. I did try it but it was a bit bittersweet. It was definitely better than any 4 buck I’d tried but 70 yards wasn’t ever a thought. But why? It must be that I needed the Dead Coyote Choke! So I got one and while slightly better than my flush Full choke that was rated for steel shot, it wasn’t very consistent. More reading and I determined that I needed my forcing cone lengthened. That didn’t help with predators but it did help a little with turkey loads so not a complete waste I guess?

So now I have this super hyped up combination of choke tube and load and a slightly modified barrel and still a 35-40 yard marginal pattern. What now? Lets try a different gun of course. I’ve got a couple 1187’s lying around. Nope.. no better. Let me get a different choke. Lets go back to copper plated 4 buck loads, how about a different barrel? I became obsessed with winning this fight guys! I made some small improvements over time and realized I could at least save a ton of money shooting lead over the DC because I had gotten to a point of close performance.

I’ve at this point settled into the fact that 50 yards is my max and under that is very much preferred. After trying about every choke manufacturer out there in constrictions from .665” up, a few different guns and every available load known to man I have settled on an 1187 with a .670” Pure Gold choke from a 21” barrel with lengthened forcing cone. The absolute best patterns are with Winchester Varmint-X Lead BB loads but it also shoots acceptable 40 yard patterns with 2-3/4” Winchester 4 buck 27 pellet loads.

Same choke and loads work as well in my 870 Turkey gun with 21” barrel

Some other findings along the way… I found that as barrel lengths got longer I achieved better patterns with a more open choke. Jeb’s .680” High Voltage waterfowl choke from my 1187’s and 4 buck in both 26” and 28” barrels performed much better than from the shorter barrels. A .685” XXFull Comp N Choke also performed well with 4 buck from the longer barrels. Another note… I found the shorter barrels did better with the 27 pellet 2-3/4” loads, where the longer barrels did better with the heavier 3” 41 pellet loads. The longer barrels seemed more forgiving of payload as well. Just my findings. Your mileage may vary? [beeep], I’m sure it will vary!… we’re talking predator shotguns here! Lol…

So after all of this… Pattern your guns guys! It's a must. I wrote a lot because nobody else has been! Lol… but I hope something in these ramblings helps somebody out there.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I started this thread October 15, 2007 after stumbling around in search of the ultimate predator shotgun combination. There was (is?) a ton of misinformation out there, speculation and plain old hype from hunters, shooters and manufacturers about shotgunning coyotes. This thread has always been and remains a work in progress. Guys like derbyacresbob, DAA, STS and a few others have made huge contributions keeping pace with shot technology. Over the years I have been contacted by several hundred people about coyote shotgun rigs. And the answer is, there is no simple answer to cover it all. I think there are some basic guidelines that can get you started in the right direction and save some time and money. Ultimately the work is the shooters and only firing patterns on the range with a method to record results to compare your findings will tell you what works in your individual gun, choke and load.

i thought we were getting a like button?

I agree 100% GC. I have patterned more than most in my circle of shooters and I’m continually asked what choke, what load, what gun should I use? After what I have experienced I just try to give them the basic guidelines and hopefully narrow things down a little. Ultimately it’s going to be a work in progress for them to figure out. It’s amazing how many will simply buy and use whatever I’m using without ever firing a round. Makes me nuts but whatever? Like I said, I have read and reread this entire thread more than once over the years. Not much has changed in the way it needs to be figured out! Lol… The contributions of some of these folks you mentioned are invaluable though. Yourself included. It’s appreciated from my end for sure.

After the inconsistencies of the Dead Coyote loads, and the insane prices of the HTL loads I just couldn’t bring myself to shoot any of it, so I hunt these critters with lead loads and keep my shots to reasonable ranges. It’s tough for me to justify $8 a round for fox or coyote that isn’t worth squat these days? I really wish I saw the light earlier on in my quest and bought cases of the Remington High Density stuff back in the day. I did at one point buy a few boxes of 2-3/4” HD BB loads labeled as Home Defense loads. I think they were 1-1/4 oz loads that would crush a fox and patterned well for me. I don’t remember if I ever dropped a coyote with them, although I’m sure they would get the job done. With our current situation I do buy quantity when I find it. The prices are insane for any ammo nowadays, but I suck it up knowing that my time afield will make me forget about what was spent. I’m chomping at the bit for October to get here so I can get after these guys! Seeing a good amount on my trail cams for sure.