GC, We have shot several hundred pounds of Hevi Shot at Canada geese over the years, almost all of it in handloads. Using browning and winchester guns (Slightly overbore compared to yours) we have been able to get 55% patterns in a 30" circle at 100yds. And this is not internet hype. One thing we learned in our testing is that Tungsten tended to pattern very inconsistantly with vented choke tubes. We settled on a patternmaster .695. This is quite less choke than you are using. Our loads use Ballistic Products TPS wads, Hard felt fillers, a mylar shot wrap, and buffer. They have all been 3-1/2" 12ga, and 1-3/4 to 1-7/8oz of the overpriced shot in a Federal hull. Guess the point of this is try an extended, non-ported tube in the constriction you're having the best results with. You just may find that you lose some flyers, and the pattern is more consistant from shot to shot.

Cat Slayer,
I'm listening... with a couple of things for us to ponder. Aren't Patternmaster's also ported/vented chokes? The ports on the Kick's chokes mostly serve to strip the shotcup from the shot. Just as the internal bumps in the Patternmaster choke does. Supposedly, the angled ports of the Kick's chokes also serve to keep escaping gases from colliding with the rear of the exiting shot so that doesn't disrupt the shot at a very critical time/place. Can you expand on your thoughts as to why a non-ported choke would pattern better than a ported one, and, how is it that the ported Patternmaster is the choke you settled on as best in your testing, given your advise above? I am not being a smart aleck, I am sincerely interested in your reply. Maybe a non-ported Carlson's choke would give better results. I need to know the constriction though. I might try a Teague Choke. They are a long extended non-ported British choke that has a tapered constriction. I like the thought of the taper constriction, and, the Brit's do know a thing or two about shotgunning.

The difference between wingshooting and predator calling is that just like a turkey hunter, we want a more center dense pattern, rather than an evenly distributed pattern for catching flying critters with a few pellets. We need to concentrate many shot into a narrow cone to perforate the relatively small vitals of a coyote. Again, just like a turkey hunter concentrating on a gobblers head/neck. 30" circles do us little good other than to verify the pattern is on point of aim.

One thing many will overlook is that the .680" choke from the tight Benelli barrel isn't as constricting as it would be in other makers barrels as they are larger internal diameters than the Benelli barrels. Especially so the overbored barrels of some makers. Screw the same choke onto an overbored barrel and you have a much more abrupt constriction for the shot load. Usually Benelli barrels require a slight bit more choke (tighter) to get similar pattern results to other makers.

And BTW, I still am not satisfied with my long range results and plan to tinker with choke constrictions. That's the fun of it...

GC The tubes we have are slick as a baby's butt inside with no dimples. Maybe they're an older style. I always loved Kick's chokes for steel shot. Patterned great. Less muzzle jump. Not with tungsten. We have a company here in Arkansas called Angle Port (Ballistic Specialties). They're in Batesville. Played with their chokes both ported and unported. Same thing, ported chokes did thicken the center somewhat more than unported. However, shot to shot was terrible. Patterns were never round, and would have holes... Reminds me of when we used to use lead and too much velocity for the hardness would "Blow the pattern". Yes, you will get less central thickening w/o the vents. I'm pretty sure of this. However, I'll bet the pellet count in the inner circle will be much more consistant, and probably higher. One thing's for sure, in my guns the whole pattern has been smaller and rounder. You should be getting about 80% in a 30" circle at 60yds with the right choke. That will kill anything, duck, goose, turkey, or coyote. If you can't with an unvented tube, send me a pm, I'll turn you on to some unbelieveable handloads... You might have to buy a 3-1/2" gun though...

Edit:
I have served my one month "ban", and I'll gladly take my permanent ban whenever dictator Redfrog is ready. Thank you.

Wise up boys and girls. Redfrog needs to be kicked to the curb.

No, none of that. Slick inside with about 1/2" // section. Maybe I have brands mixed up, but I don't think so. I have several. I had a sp10 for awhile, sold it. If you've gone the BP route with TPS wads, mythick, mix47, etc. My best suggestion is to call the guys in batesville or Briley. You can send them the gun, some handloads, and some green stuff. They can lengthen the forcing cone, and make a tube to fit the barrel. tell them what you want. They will make a tube that starts bore size, and is overly choked. Then they will pattern it, ream a little, pattern, ream a little etc.
I've had best results with Hevi-Shot around 1300fps. The only powder to use is "Steel"

You guys really got me scratchin' my head. Going home to look and see what brand tube is in the durn thing.....

Edit:
I have served my one month "ban", and I'll gladly take my permanent ban whenever dictator Redfrog is ready. Thank you.

Wise up boys and girls. Redfrog needs to be kicked to the curb.

Edit:
I have served my one month "ban", and I'll gladly take my permanent ban whenever dictator Redfrog is ready. Thank you.

Wise up boys and girls. Redfrog needs to be kicked to the curb.

Cat Slayer,
Every PatternMaster I've ever seen had the dimples inside. You also said something about the choke being .695" and I've never seen or heard of a PatternMaster that tight. Check that choke and let us know what you've got.

Joel,
Fifty yards isn't a "gimme" is it? It can be done, and more, with just the right combination. I'm thinking of 3" .12 gauges now. Most of us aren't lucky enough to just fall into that without some real work involved. Lot's of "blue sky" stories about long distance 70, and even 80 - 100+ yard shotgunning floating around. There is a problem obtaining decent patterns at those ranges, plus the consideration of pellet energy and penetration. Coyotes are tough little buggers. Shotguns don't make for great blood trails on thick furred critters, and, soft feet don't much for tracks in a lot of thick cover country. It's a shame newbie predator shotgunners have to wade through all that stuff and find out the hard way that 70+ yards for the typical rig off the shelf is out of the question. The good news is that it is pretty easy to get a solid 40 yard rig without too much trouble. My dad and I were reviewing our shotgun shots from the last several years and I think 40 yards, maybe a bit less, is about the average shot distance for us. I've had some closer, a few that were too close and required a tight hold so as not to miss. Some farther, with a few over the 50 yard line. Some of them you have to give another dose or two of lead before they figure out they're shot and should give up the ghost. Shot angles certainly have something to do with that, as well as distance. Head on isn't a great angle, going straight away is a terrible angle - especially at longish ranges.

GC,

I just got through reading this entire thread and think you pretty well summed it up in your last post. I agree that 50 yards is not a gimme, and to find a combination that will reliably do it sometimes takes a lot of effort/chokes/ and ammunition, even then some luck mixed in don't hurt. On any shotgunned coyote I always plan on giving him another dose or two, especially on the longer shots. I would say my average shotgunned coyote is less than 40 yards and don't need a second shot but over 40 they sometimes do and experience has taught me that when in doubt give him some more. I've even been known to cut the distance a few yards before giving him another.

On deciding between the heavy weig

GC,

I just got through reading this entire thread and think you pretty well summed it up in your last post. I agree that 50 yards is not a gimme, and to find a combination that will reliably do it sometimes takes a lot of effort/chokes/ and ammunition, even then some luck mixed in don't hurt. On any shotgunned coyote I always plan on giving him another dose or two, especially on the longer shots. I would say my average shotgunned coyote is less than 40 yards and don't need a second shot but over 40 they sometimes do and experience has taught me that when in doubt give him some more. I've even been known to cut the distance a few yards before giving him another.

On deciding between the heavy weights and lead I will always go with the heavy weights for the extra energy as well as hardness. They just flat out penetrate and break bones better. I've killed lots of coyotes and a few cats with the DC and a couple with the HD stuff and it just flat crushes bones and penetrates better than anything I've ever used. It is more expensive but worth the extra cost to me. With guys like you putting in the work and narrowing down what works the best it will save us all a bunch of money narrowing down our best combinations to try for ourselves.

I plan on testing the Remington HD more in the next few weeks when I get more chokes and my shotgun. I did however cut open a DC load and a HD load to see what the difference was, if any. Here are a couple of pictures of what I saw. It’s apparent that the HD stuff is slicker looking and is slightly more uniform. Not sure how they are made but the Remington stuff is not as brittle as the DC. Not sure whether or not it makes a difference or not but I was unable to break the Remington shot with pliers and was easily able to crush the DC stuff. I'd heard rumors that the Remington stuff was softer. I don't think so as I was unable to get a mark on it with considerable effort on the pliers. Keep in mind I'm not saying this makes it more effective on coyotes at all. It's simply just an observation.





Thanks everyone for sharing your results.

Byron

I have an original Pattern Master for my 10ga BPS. It was purchased somewhere around 1992-1994?, can't remember exactly when. It does have wad stripping lugs in it. I was never particularly impressed with it's performance with lead shot, but it did pattern the slower (<1350 fps.) large pellet steel shot loads well, though.

GC and everyone else, Went home last night and looked. Guess I'm getting old. Choke tube is from Ballistic Specialties. (Angle Port) .695 unported Invector Plus. Guess I shouldn't type from memory without checking the facts. Was advertising for the wrong company. I've got tubes from most everyone. Anyway you guys are all missing the origional suggestion. Try an extended unported choke about .005-.010 tighter than lead full in your gun for Hevi-shot. Make sure it's hardened. I also found (at least in the guns I've played with) that you CAN improve patterns handloading Hevi-Shot over factory just like you can improve groups in a rifle. I was also surprised at the DRAMATIC changes to a pattern you can make with small adjustments. Also, remember all the work I have done has been with the 3-1/2" 12ga, because of differences in wad column I'm more than sure your results will be different. I'm also very confident you can get to 50yds with handloads and some work. You might also have to have some barrel work done, but it is possible. I am also 99.5% sure I could get to 60yds with a 3-1/2" 12ga and some load work.

BTW guys Here's some food for thought. A Giant Canada weighs about 15-17 lbs. When we shot them with lead we used BB's. When we started shooting Hevi-Shot thats where we started. Crippled everything over 40 yds. Went to 1's same problem. Went to 2's Magic! 2's will shoot completely through one at 60-70yds with most of the pellets. I've cleaned hundreds of the durn things. Pattern density was the key. Guys, a 15-17lb goose is pretty dense and tough! I think you might be able to drop down a size or two and get your 100% kill at 50yds you're looking for. This stuff penetrates much differently than lead. The extra weight combined with less frontal area makes more difference than you think. I think your answer is BB's or 1's, not T's. to get your 100% kills. I also think in a 3" it will be a handload.

Byron, Not sure if the rounder pellets in the rem shells will pattern any better, but the shot string WILL be shorter. Super long shot strings have always been the limiting factor on Hevi-Shot at long range. The stuff strings so bad it will only kill about 1/2 as far on a crossing shot as a straitht away.