Educated coyotes??
- Thread starter Redfrog
- Start date
Rich in AZ
New member
My goodness, George, you do know how to make a point. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
I always listen closely to a man with a wide range of experience over a wide range of area. KUDOS!
I'm looking forward to hunting and visiting with you at Globe this year.
Do you have any "Look at Me, Look at Me"s of Pa. coyotes?
I always listen closely to a man with a wide range of experience over a wide range of area. KUDOS!
I'm looking forward to hunting and visiting with you at Globe this year.
Do you have any "Look at Me, Look at Me"s of Pa. coyotes?
Interesting thread, no doubt alot of varibles involved. I tend to follow Goeorge's perspective.
Although I've only hunted one state. I've only ever had 2-coyotes, ever come to what I call "close" to me. Et 1 of those two coyote's was in another county with moderate ground cover. Typically the coyotes in my general hunt area, hang way out there, if they show up @ all.
I would enjoy watching any coyote callin[guru] /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif to hunt my area. I'll spot you one from afar. Then you can call him onto your lap /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.
Although I've only hunted one state. I've only ever had 2-coyotes, ever come to what I call "close" to me. Et 1 of those two coyote's was in another county with moderate ground cover. Typically the coyotes in my general hunt area, hang way out there, if they show up @ all.
I would enjoy watching any coyote callin[guru] /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif to hunt my area. I'll spot you one from afar. Then you can call him onto your lap /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.
guess
New member
Quote:
education,
"to develop the knowledge,
Knowledge is something learned{would imply the ability to reason} and not forgotten ,unless you have Alzheimer's.
that is the reason I'm reluctant to use the word educated ,when referring to animals.It is a conditioned response and if conditions don't persist they will go back to the way they were before they were "educated".
As Uncle Jay says "the good thing about educating a coyote,is they always forget" that has become one of my favorite quote's
Redfrog, have you ever noticed that some people are deathly afraid of all snakes seemingly from birth having never had a bad experience with one? I think some coyotes are the same way, some are born afraid for no reason just born that way.They generally live solitary lives and scavenge rather than hunt,they are generally nocturnal as well.
Those of us who are not limited to hunting coyotes have seen this behavior in every species.
I only hunted varmints and predators till I was about 26.I learned a lot more about predators hunting other game and vice versa.
education,
"to develop the knowledge,
Knowledge is something learned{would imply the ability to reason} and not forgotten ,unless you have Alzheimer's.
that is the reason I'm reluctant to use the word educated ,when referring to animals.It is a conditioned response and if conditions don't persist they will go back to the way they were before they were "educated".
As Uncle Jay says "the good thing about educating a coyote,is they always forget" that has become one of my favorite quote's
Redfrog, have you ever noticed that some people are deathly afraid of all snakes seemingly from birth having never had a bad experience with one? I think some coyotes are the same way, some are born afraid for no reason just born that way.They generally live solitary lives and scavenge rather than hunt,they are generally nocturnal as well.
Those of us who are not limited to hunting coyotes have seen this behavior in every species.
I only hunted varmints and predators till I was about 26.I learned a lot more about predators hunting other game and vice versa.
Rich Cronk
New member
kirby,
You live in the great corn belt, right? Corn, soybeans and educated coyotes. Coyotes that come to a call and get shot at tend to get smart. Even when they come to a call and find nothing but a stinking human there, they will remember the experience. Iowa is great for farming. We have lots of deer and turkey that will cooperate well also. Coyotes? We have a few, but calling coyotes is a long ways from good. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
You live in the great corn belt, right? Corn, soybeans and educated coyotes. Coyotes that come to a call and get shot at tend to get smart. Even when they come to a call and find nothing but a stinking human there, they will remember the experience. Iowa is great for farming. We have lots of deer and turkey that will cooperate well also. Coyotes? We have a few, but calling coyotes is a long ways from good. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
BillyTheKidd
New member
George, thanks for showing those awesome pictures. I'm sure everybody enjoyed them. Got more?
Rich C,
Central Marshall County, Iowa. [Terraserver], will give you a good look see. Open rolling hilly cropland, very little cover.
The majority of these coyote's in my area. Eyeball, every vehicle that go's down a gravel, from the 1/2 mile where their bedded. They will bolt or get up & watch[staring hard] if that vehicle slows or stops. "Most" will bolt, if that vehicle stops. "Only" vehicle they are "comfortable" with, is...a farm tractor.
BTW, Guess. I aggree with you, they all have their very own personality. Just like domestic dogs. Some smart, some stupid, some in between.
I invite anyone to hunt with me next Winter snowfly. I spot around 50 coyotes a yr. Winter motel rates are cheap around here. I want to see a coyote called onto someone's, lap. Let alone
Central Marshall County, Iowa. [Terraserver], will give you a good look see. Open rolling hilly cropland, very little cover.
The majority of these coyote's in my area. Eyeball, every vehicle that go's down a gravel, from the 1/2 mile where their bedded. They will bolt or get up & watch[staring hard] if that vehicle slows or stops. "Most" will bolt, if that vehicle stops. "Only" vehicle they are "comfortable" with, is...a farm tractor.
BTW, Guess. I aggree with you, they all have their very own personality. Just like domestic dogs. Some smart, some stupid, some in between.
I invite anyone to hunt with me next Winter snowfly. I spot around 50 coyotes a yr. Winter motel rates are cheap around here. I want to see a coyote called onto someone's, lap. Let alone
Rich in AZ
New member
Quote:
I only hunted varmints and predators till I was about 26.I learned a lot more about predators hunting other game and vice versa.
OK this one peaked my interest. Will you give examples of how you learned more about coyotes by hunting other game?
I only hunted varmints and predators till I was about 26.I learned a lot more about predators hunting other game and vice versa.
OK this one peaked my interest. Will you give examples of how you learned more about coyotes by hunting other game?
Redfrog
Moderator
Wow! lots of opinions and ideas guys. Thanks.
Sounds like a lot of us enjoy George's pictures. Lots of memories there.
I've asked George to post any other pictures in the photo forum or start another thread. We have guys that are on dialup and it could take a while to read this thread each day. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
How about posting some more in the photo forum George, there's guys here that are waiting for hunting season and need a fix.
Sounds like a lot of us enjoy George's pictures. Lots of memories there.
I've asked George to post any other pictures in the photo forum or start another thread. We have guys that are on dialup and it could take a while to read this thread each day. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
How about posting some more in the photo forum George, there's guys here that are waiting for hunting season and need a fix.
Is sounds to me from finally reading through all this "Educated" non-sense, like the only real problem is that George can't get it done in PA and is very frustrated about it.
It's all good, I kill a fair share of critters for here in Southern Ca. but yet when I went back to New Jersey, I got skunked for a whole week and not once have I blamed it on "Educated" coyotes.
It's all good, I kill a fair share of critters for here in Southern Ca. but yet when I went back to New Jersey, I got skunked for a whole week and not once have I blamed it on "Educated" coyotes.
Rich,
Don’t know what Guess has learned about coyotes from calling other critters but I have learned that way. The more kinds of critters I call, and the more I learn the characteristics of each, the more I understand patterns of animal behavior when responding to a call.
For me, coyotes have been the baseline to which I compare all other critters, and I’ve called more than 30 kinds of animals not counting waterfowl. For me, it was coyotes that taught me to call whitetails, rather than the reverse, but it could work both ways. Not sure how to express it all in detail as some is intuitive, and some of the stuff I could explain I don’t want to. It was hard learned, some of it I’ve never heard mentioned nor seen in print, and I’m not keen on casting it before an internet forum ;-)
It is sort of like the way a person never really learns English till he studies a foreign language. Then after working on two or three other languages, patterns of human communication code begin to emerge, making each new language easier to learn than the last. The more kinds of animals you call, the more you learn about how to call any one of them. It also gives you a start on learning how to call a critter that you've never tried to call.
Don’t know what Guess has learned about coyotes from calling other critters but I have learned that way. The more kinds of critters I call, and the more I learn the characteristics of each, the more I understand patterns of animal behavior when responding to a call.
For me, coyotes have been the baseline to which I compare all other critters, and I’ve called more than 30 kinds of animals not counting waterfowl. For me, it was coyotes that taught me to call whitetails, rather than the reverse, but it could work both ways. Not sure how to express it all in detail as some is intuitive, and some of the stuff I could explain I don’t want to. It was hard learned, some of it I’ve never heard mentioned nor seen in print, and I’m not keen on casting it before an internet forum ;-)
It is sort of like the way a person never really learns English till he studies a foreign language. Then after working on two or three other languages, patterns of human communication code begin to emerge, making each new language easier to learn than the last. The more kinds of animals you call, the more you learn about how to call any one of them. It also gives you a start on learning how to call a critter that you've never tried to call.
guess
New member
well put Okanagan,nearly every animal I hunt can be called.I'm kind of lazy that way I want them to come to me.I have learned a great deal about calling predators while calling other game.
here's a teaser,watch two bucks fight ,but try and forget they are there and scan the surrounding area for predators.See how many respond! You'll be amazed!
here's a teaser,watch two bucks fight ,but try and forget they are there and scan the surrounding area for predators.See how many respond! You'll be amazed!
Dogboy
New member
One of the best threads I've ever read. Very good perspective you offer Guess, I agree on the conditioning an animal. Even conditioning can be changed if you change your routine in hunting a given area as you stated.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
George you ever get out to communist Kalifornia you look me up, I'll give you an opportunity to condition or educate some coyotes........... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
When I first moved to the high desert I killed more coyotes within a mile of my house than I care to remember. I thought I really screwed up the echo system. Just not true if you change up your tactics and stands some they just keep showing up to the call.
I've learned in 10 years of calling you just can't predict what these critters will do generally, but you must be versatile in your calling.
George you ever get out to communist Kalifornia you look me up, I'll give you an opportunity to condition or educate some coyotes........... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
When I first moved to the high desert I killed more coyotes within a mile of my house than I care to remember. I thought I really screwed up the echo system. Just not true if you change up your tactics and stands some they just keep showing up to the call.
I've learned in 10 years of calling you just can't predict what these critters will do generally, but you must be versatile in your calling.
GEORGE ACKLEY
New member
this is my last reply..
here are a couple PA coyote's
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/SOME%20OF%20MY%20PREDATORS/p.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/SOME%20OF%20MY%20PREDATORS/deaddog.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/SOME%20OF%20MY%20PREDATORS/dogge.jpg
I would have to up load some more photos for ya
but let me comment on the remark about not getting it done ,
Here in PA
my people were getting it done before me and will be getting done after ME /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
George
here are a couple PA coyote's
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/SOME%20OF%20MY%20PREDATORS/p.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/SOME%20OF%20MY%20PREDATORS/deaddog.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/SOME%20OF%20MY%20PREDATORS/dogge.jpg
I would have to up load some more photos for ya
but let me comment on the remark about not getting it done ,
Here in PA
my people were getting it done before me and will be getting done after ME /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
George
Jay Nistetter
New member
Why is it that Some Do... and Some Don’t...?
That’s a question I have wondered about people rather than about coyotes.
Here's my take on it:
External forces modify the behavior of animals.
Those that adapt, move on.
Those that don’t, perish.
I think that’s called evolution. Not education.
I suppose there exists a fine line between education and behavior modification.
Repetitive Positive Reinforcement results in what appears to be a highly evolved and educated beast.
Would Shamu perform somersaults before children if it weren’t for treats or some other form of positive reinforcement?
Does a coyote “remember” what a rabbit sounds like?
I don’t think a coyote remembers. I think a coyote associates.
The rabbit sound triggers an “If-Then” process that kicks in the conditioned behavior typically rewarded with some form of positive reinforcement… and vice-versa.
I don't care for the term "Educated Coyote" because it infers intellect.
Do people from the east coast act/react differently than people from the west coast? Mid-West? North? South? Oh Canada?
Sure they do. Would Chocolate Labrador Retrievers act differently? Don’t you suppose any differences would be because of their association with people?
So… I suppose that one could reason that Eastern Coyotes appear smarter than Western Coyotes because of their association with smarter people. I think that about sums it up.
Are coyotes educated?
Answer: Only when compared to some individuals.
That’s a question I have wondered about people rather than about coyotes.
Here's my take on it:
External forces modify the behavior of animals.
Those that adapt, move on.
Those that don’t, perish.
I think that’s called evolution. Not education.
I suppose there exists a fine line between education and behavior modification.
Repetitive Positive Reinforcement results in what appears to be a highly evolved and educated beast.
Would Shamu perform somersaults before children if it weren’t for treats or some other form of positive reinforcement?
Does a coyote “remember” what a rabbit sounds like?
I don’t think a coyote remembers. I think a coyote associates.
The rabbit sound triggers an “If-Then” process that kicks in the conditioned behavior typically rewarded with some form of positive reinforcement… and vice-versa.
I don't care for the term "Educated Coyote" because it infers intellect.
Do people from the east coast act/react differently than people from the west coast? Mid-West? North? South? Oh Canada?
Sure they do. Would Chocolate Labrador Retrievers act differently? Don’t you suppose any differences would be because of their association with people?
So… I suppose that one could reason that Eastern Coyotes appear smarter than Western Coyotes because of their association with smarter people. I think that about sums it up.
Are coyotes educated?
Answer: Only when compared to some individuals.
GEORGE ACKLEY
New member
Guess,, never count what you see laying in my truck as my kill because the truth be told, i don't get much trigger time pal,
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20PREDATOR%20HUNTERS/phoyo1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20PREDATOR%20HUNTERS/015.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20PREDATOR%20HUNTERS/DSC00063-2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20PREDATOR%20HUNTERS/Picture047.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20BEAR%20HUNTS/DSC00043-4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20BEAR%20HUNTS/THEBOYS11.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20BEAR%20HUNTS/JOHNANDME.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20YOUTH%20DEER%20HUNTS/HPIM0461.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20YOUTH%20DEER%20HUNTS/pat44.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20YOUTH%20DEER%20HUNTS/pat-b.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20YOUTH%20DEER%20HUNTS/tom.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20YOUTH%20DEER%20HUNTS/rich.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20YOUTH%20DEER%20HUNTS/ca4674c0.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20YOUTH%20DEER%20HUNTS/52df857a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20YOUTH%20DEER%20HUNTS/69b0cf95.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20YOUTH%20DEER%20HUNTS/THE_BOYS.jpg
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20TURKEY%20HUNTS/
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20PREDATOR%20HUNTERS/phoyo1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20PREDATOR%20HUNTERS/015.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20PREDATOR%20HUNTERS/DSC00063-2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20PREDATOR%20HUNTERS/Picture047.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20BEAR%20HUNTS/DSC00043-4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20BEAR%20HUNTS/THEBOYS11.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20BEAR%20HUNTS/JOHNANDME.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20YOUTH%20DEER%20HUNTS/HPIM0461.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20YOUTH%20DEER%20HUNTS/pat44.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20YOUTH%20DEER%20HUNTS/pat-b.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20YOUTH%20DEER%20HUNTS/tom.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20YOUTH%20DEER%20HUNTS/rich.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20YOUTH%20DEER%20HUNTS/ca4674c0.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20YOUTH%20DEER%20HUNTS/52df857a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20YOUTH%20DEER%20HUNTS/69b0cf95.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20YOUTH%20DEER%20HUNTS/THE_BOYS.jpg
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v47/G.ACKLEY/GUIDED%20TURKEY%20HUNTS/
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Perhaps, the word "educated" is loosly used when discussing animals/coyote's. It is in my mind, as I often use generalizations.
Doubtfull, to me if I will ever know the truth/reason's of why the coyotes in my area. Don't just charge in & jump on my lap. Let alone a pr or a pack coming close. But I do have my opinions/observations, as to why not. But, I can hardly call that the "truth"
I estimated awhile back, I've seen over 1000 coyotes, give or take. Some out of that number, I seen repeatidly, year after yr.
Only ever seen 2-coyote's, while driving a gravel spotting for coyote. Those 2 coyote's were close to the gravel I was on. They both[seperate hunts, different Winter's], sat down on their haunch's & just stared @ me for abit[70yrds out or so]. I sat & stared back, admiring them. One looked to be a yearling, while the other was a large mature coyote.
These 2 were not the "norm" in my area. But very interesting to watch their behavior, regardless.
Doubtfull, to me if I will ever know the truth/reason's of why the coyotes in my area. Don't just charge in & jump on my lap. Let alone a pr or a pack coming close. But I do have my opinions/observations, as to why not. But, I can hardly call that the "truth"
I estimated awhile back, I've seen over 1000 coyotes, give or take. Some out of that number, I seen repeatidly, year after yr.
Only ever seen 2-coyote's, while driving a gravel spotting for coyote. Those 2 coyote's were close to the gravel I was on. They both[seperate hunts, different Winter's], sat down on their haunch's & just stared @ me for abit[70yrds out or so]. I sat & stared back, admiring them. One looked to be a yearling, while the other was a large mature coyote.
These 2 were not the "norm" in my area. But very interesting to watch their behavior, regardless.
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guess
New member
Quote:
Guess,, never count what you see laying in my truck as my kill because the truth be told, i don't get much trigger time pal,
That being the case.I have to ask who shot the one's from
PA?
By the way Michelle said "if we all spent as much time hunting as we do arguing on the net,that we would all being killing coyotes. so shut up and hunt!"
Michelle Guess
Guess,, never count what you see laying in my truck as my kill because the truth be told, i don't get much trigger time pal,
That being the case.I have to ask who shot the one's from
PA?
By the way Michelle said "if we all spent as much time hunting as we do arguing on the net,that we would all being killing coyotes. so shut up and hunt!"
Michelle Guess