Re: 22-250 AI

yote hunter

New member
Hi Craig,
Just some thoughts, the 22-250AI is ballistically the same as a 220 swift. If you want to try something in your 22-250 try the 40 grain Noslet BT with 41grains of H380 powder and a CCIlarge rifle bench rest primer.This load shoots 1/8 inch groups and chronos at 4005 feet per second out of my browning a-bolt with 1 in 14 twist. Bullet desn not exit a coyote. Yote Hunter.
 
Well Craig,

I'll give you the whole nine yards.

I have a Swift that I use on dogs. 62 gr. MEF Bergers @ 3550 fps.

I have a standard 22-250 that I also use on dogs. The load is 52 grain Hornady Match @ 3650fps.

My 22-250 Ackley spits out a 65 grain Berger @ 3925 fps.

This is NOT basically the same as a Swift, it is on another planet.

These are not estimates, I have a very good Oehler, and I have used friends that were already set up, where I didn't want to wait for a line change; so the numbers are consistant. My machine is accurate.

Okay, now the (not so) bad news. If you have accuracy in your gun, I'd shoot it until it falls off, then rebarrel. The standard 22-250 has killed a lot of coyotes, no flies on that sucker. I hunt a lot of open plains where long shots are the rule, and it is a targeting issue, not necessarily the killing efficency. In other words, it is much easier to hit your animal at various unknown ranges, if you have the increased velocity of an Improved cartridge, coupled with a heavy for caliber bullet. If you rechamber your existing barrel, you will wind up shortening the barrel by an inch or more, and the Ackley needs all the barrel length you can get for optimum performance.

I predict that the 22-250 Ackley will be a popular Factory chambering one of these days. The brass doesn't stretch like a Swift, and I get twice as many loads per case, which is important to me.

Fireforming? I borrowed a "loaner" gun with a junk shot out bore, but chambered with the same reamer as was used in my gun. Took me a little over an hour to blow the shoulder out completely on 200 cases. That was nine years ago, I'm still using the same cases. Saved my barrel life, about 800/900 rounds total, will still shoot in the .300"x5 occasionally. What's not to like?

If you can't stand it, just get one; but don't ruin your trusty rig to do it. That's why I still have the others, they still shoot, but the other Swift didn't, so I bought a Hart barrel for it. By the way, a 1 in 14" twist is very adequate, when you chamber the AI, because of the increased velocity. That spins your bullets at a very acceptable RPM for accuracy. I'd forget about the heavy VLD contours and fast twists. They aren't very good coyote bullets.

If you are impressed with raw speed in an efficent case design, how about a fifty-five grain Ballistic Tip @ 4400? I like the BC of the heavier bullet, but the lighter Nosler gives train wreck type terminal performance, at that velocity.

So, I'm a happy camper! After using a 220 Swift for over fifteen years, I thought I knew a bit about twenty-two caliber predator performance. Guess again.
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Good luck, LB (you will like it!)
 
Thanks fellas, I think I am about sold on the idea. A couple questions however, what die maker do you recommend for the imp, and Leonard I am a little confused. If I have my chamber reamed all I really need to do is straighten the sides and blow the shoulder out, am I missing something? Why would I lose barrel length?
 
I'm not positive that you would lose barrel length, depending on who does the job, and how he does it. Generally, the Improved is a shorter overall length, so you need to remove the threads and recut them, and reposition the shoulder, maybe indicate and true up the action, some of the things that are worthwhile. Most gunsmiths, I think would rather cut a new chamber, than leave an erroded throat, but I guess that is a personal choice. However the combination of increased capacity and possibly a slower powder are enhanced even more by increasing the barrel length. For instance, my data above is incomplete, the Ackley Improved has a barrel that is more than two inches longer than the other two. That alone probably gives me a hundred feet per second. I just wouldn't mess with a factory barrel, if it is shot out, discard it and buy a premium barrel. Otherwise, I have seen people spend the money to alter their existing chamber, and wind up being disappointed with the marginal improvements. Sort of half measures, this isn't the whole story, but I can only vouch for the proceedure that I have, which, by the way, I know of at least six guys locally, that did the same thing and there is no doubt about the improved performance they all realized.

Dies. I use a Redding 40º Ackley Improved full length sizing die, and use an arbor press and a Wilson straight line seating die that was cut with the same reamer as my chamber, another one of the nice things that a gunsmith that is looking out for your interests, will do for you. Most all dies are hardened, but the Wilson is not, so this is possible, and a worthwhile thing to do. Using the full length sizer, you just barely bump the shoulder. I would not ask for a tight neck on a hunting gun, unless you are into neck turning, and buying bushings for your neck sizing dies. You need to consider the bullet you want to use, if for instance, you want to use heavier bullets, you might want a 1 in 13" twist, but if you are satisfied with the 52/55 grain bullets, a 1 in 15" twist is adequate, at Ackley Improved velocities.

Some guys are satisfied with the case life improvement, alone. Especially those that also shoot a 220 Swift, which needs trimming and neck reaming after several loadings. I have never trimmed a neck on any Ackley I have owned (4). Lots to consider.

Good luck, LB
 
Thank you LB for the info and help. I think I will do a little more soul searching before I jump. Today I was thinking along your same lines already, I thought if I am goinf to do this deal why not go whole hog and get a new premium barrel to work with.
 
Leonard,
You mentioned 4400fps with a 55grs. NBT. Is that a typo? Wow.
I have a 22-250 and think the AI would be a good next step. Or maybe a whole new rifle with a Hart barrel and 700 action. I use Varget now and am satisfied. I am only getting 3620fps over 36.5grs. Have you tried it what kind of velocities did you get? Do you check for runout? I noticed that you use a full length die. Do you not neck size?
Thanx.

[This message has been edited by Skinny Shooter (edited 03-12-2001).]
 
No, not a typo, but not what I did, either. I used the 55 Berger @4400fps. They grouped well at 100 yards, but they never made it to 200 before blowing up. When I was doing my load development, I do not think the 55 Ballistic Tip had been introduced. Some of my friends are using it, however. The design of the Nosler is more favorable, will withstand that velocity, in at least one gun that I know of. I could do it also, but I feel that my load is better at long range. Actually, I know it is.

As far as full length sizing, it is prefered, at this level of performance. I have never neck sized this cartridge, and have never had to trim my cases. I neck size and turn necks on my 25'06 Ackley, but I had to do it because of the tight neck on the chamber. Normally, I want free chambering in a hunting gun, especially for predators.

Good hunting. LB
 
Leonard , just one more question please. What length of barrel do you feel is needed to make the Ackley imp a worth while endeavor?
Is 24 long enough? or do I need a 25 , 26 or even longer.
Reason being is that there is a point of diminishing returns for me very quickly. I will not hunt with anything longer than 26" and I hate to do that actually.
I do not shoot rodents, so this is purely a predator rifle. For that use 99% of my shots are under 300 yards.
I know that for that range I could be served by the 22-250 vanilla just fine for most all situations. However I like what high velocity does for the kill factor. When those bullets are getting it at around 4grand a coyote just melts with a decent hit. I am wanting to shoot 55 grainers however. I don't have much faith in the 40's for closer shots and the ballistic coeff is so low for those that after about 200 they seem to be a novelty rather than any kind of improvement.
Just pickin your brain a little.
 
Encore, I really don't know? It might be the J4 jackets are scored from the rifling a little deeper than some other bullets. It might be because it just takes that many fractions of a second for the bullet to fly apart. The RPM is way up there, I think over a third of a million, that is what is happening, like an exploding flywheel, it is not from friction, as many believe. I have heard of bullets becoming a blue streak right away, and at some point downrange.

Craig, I do believe that a twenty-six inch barrel produces better performance, mine is 28 but don't forget, it is a long range rig all the way. If you go shorter, you might as well go to a 243 Winchester instead of an Ackley. If you are considering a new barrel, there is no reason why you can't go there, if your action will accommodate it. The 243 with a 56 or 60 grain bullet is stepping out. For hunting at 300 yards and under, that bullet is plenty flat, kills like struck by lightning. Just something to consider.

I should mention that my walk out gun is a custom Model 600 Remington chambered in 6MM Remington, so that tells you where I'm at, under Arizona type conditions. My 22-250 Ackley is mainly for up north on those sagebrush flats, and night hunting.

Good hunting. LB
 
Howdy Craig,

I have a Rem 700 that I just had rechambered to 22-250 AI. I lost a little barrel length, but it was so small it doesn't matter.

I haven't had it long enough to work up any really good loads yet.

I have a friend who gave me 4 of the Winchester Varminter 40 packs in 45 grain HP.

I fed them thru the action and got perfectly formed cases. I sent to Redding and got a full lenght sizing die, then changed my mind and also got a neck sizing die. cost for each was about $40.00 by the time shipping was added.

I had to rezero a bit when I shot the reg 22-250's cause they lost a bit of velocity, but I decided to do that and use them hunting rather than just pop them off on the range.

I am NOT sorry I had mine done.

Ken
 
Pecos thanks for your sharing your opinion.I would appreciate it if you would keep me posted on your progress in load development and velocities if you happen to have a chrono.
Thanks again, Craig.
 
Craig, my first thought is not to mess with something that accurate. But I realize that you want velocity, and if by chance you lost a tiny bit of accuracy, it would not matter all that much for your predator hunting. But I do like a short, quick handling barrel for moving coyotes....

The Ackleys really are great. As far as the fireforming goes, I have 500 .223 AIs loaded up in a PD gun. It shoots .700 groups with the fire-forming loads, so a-hunting I will go, and come back with fireformed cases...
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Critr
www.SaguaroSafaris.com
 
Hello,
For you guys with custom 22s such as above a question. I would like to be able to shoot every bullet made for .224 diameter out of one rifle. Which calls for a fast twist. Some manufacturers reccomend a 1-7 rate for some of their target rounds. Has anybody ever done this twist rate with an AI round successfully?Second question. There was an article in some book a while back (Ackley???) That mentioned gain twist barrels. Would this be a better option for an "all purpose barrel?"

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Load Hot Shoot Straight, Get'em on the Wall
 
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