This is not a bench rest competition!! No bench rest guns allowed. We're talking about a hunting rifle competition here. Bull barrels are OK since that's what a lot of us hunt with (me too), but no bench type forestocks (more than 3.5" wide) and lets keep it to 13.5lbs all up weight (rifle/scope/ammo).

No rests, no benches, no bags, no bi-pods or tri-pods. All shooting will be from unattached one or two legged shooting sticks, while either sitting on the ground or on your own stool. You can have a spotter with you to help you spot your misses. We'll probably shoot in relays (if there's enough participation), so trading off shooting/spotting shouldn't be a problem.

Normal range safety rules will be strictly adhered to. Eye and ear protection required at all times. Bolts open and guns unloaded until you are on the firing line and are given permission to load. Muzzles always pointed downrange. At the "cease fire" command, all shooting stops, and firearms are to be unloaded. All range officer commands followed immediately. We'll write up a list of specific range rules but you guys have all been to a range and know the drill. SAFETY FIRST!!

If anybody is not "range experienced", don't hesitate to let us know. We'll be happy to help you out, and it's more a reflection on your good intelligence than on your lack of range operations experience to let us know.

The San Carlos Wildlife and Recreation Department has generously agreed to make an exception to their normal policy, and allow us to hold the competition on the Rez, so that's probably where it will be. That means that you will have to get your Reservation hunting licenses before the shoot.

You will also need to be registered for the PM hunt, but I hope we'll be able to get you registered on site. Click here for hunt registration (1st step) and then go here for payment (2nd step).

A $40 entry fee includes 3 shots at each stage you qualify for, additional shots (up to 3) for $20 each are also good for each stage you qualify for.

The shoot will go something like this:

At each stage shooters will get set up with their shooting sticks etc., and will then be given permission to load their rifles. When everybody is loaded and ready, the rangemaster will give the "commence fire" order and you'll have 2 minutes to fire your string, when the range master will command "cease fire".

We'll start the shoot off at 200YDs unless there's a lot of wind. Everybody that "kills" their egg at that range will move on to the 300YD stage, if you hit at 300YDs you will qualify for the next stage at 400YDs, and so on. If it gets that far (doubtful), we'll probably stop the range increases at 500YDs ( because of range limitations), and shoot "eliminations" to get a winner.

Each shooter will get three shots included with their entry fee, and will be able to "buy" up to three additional shots before any stage. In other words, you could pay your entry and "buy" 3 extra shots before the match. You would then have 6 shots available at 200YDs and at each stage that you qualified for after that.

Or, you could shoot 3 shots at 200YDs and (if you killed your egg) buy the extra 3 shots (or 1 or 2) afterwards. That would make you a 6 round shooter for the 300YD stage and any subsequent stages you qualified for.

All you have to do at each stage is break your egg. It doesn't matter if it's with the 1st or the 6th shot (unless it goes into "elimination" which I doubt). If you accidentally shoot someone else's egg, lucky him, and I hope you have more shots left to try for yours.

Prizes will be awarded in the traditional shooting comp manner. The 1st place winner gets first choice from the prize table, 2nd place gets next choice, etc.

This should be a real hoot, and a chance to win some great prizes too!!

Leon

I have 3-legged Predator Sniper Styx. Are they permitted?

Can we use different rifles for the different ranges or do we use one rifle?

"No rests, no benches, no bags, no bi-pods or tri-pods. All shooting will be from shooting sticks while either sitting on the ground or on your own stool."

I agree, this needs to be explained in depth. Home made, over the counter only? Acceptable specifications for sticks.

No tripods Nasa, nothing with 3 legs, whether attached to the rifle or not.

One leg or two leg shooting sticks (not attached to the rifle), either homemade or store bought are OK. If I can manage to participate I'll probably use my homemade sticks.

I think just one rifle Weasel. In actual fact I don't think it would matter all that much, but let's keep it simple.

Requiring all shooting to be done from a relatively unstable platform (shooting sticks), takes away the advantage of having a bug hole shooting rifle.

Making the objective to hit a target with one of 3-6 shots instead of trying to shoot tiny groups, gives the normal guy and rifle an even better chance.

It makes it more of a contest between riflemen than rifles (and allows for an element of luck).

Look at the test results closely. My 40X .308 is a custom blueprinted gun that's scary accurate. I've shot (a few) 1/4 MOA 10 shot groups at 600YDS with it. My plain jane .223 Savage with a POS scope did just as well as the 40X when shooting off of sticks.

This whole thing is designed to be more of a fun shoot than a really serious competition, even though it will have some very nice prizes.

Some of us have shot competition and many haven't, but we're all hunters and can shoot well enough to hit our prey. The idea is to encourage people who have never shot in a competition before to come out, have some fun, and have a serious chance of winning some great prizes too.

Dang, I don't even own a set of shooting sticks. I tell ya what, I realize it will be a dis advantage, but how about I just use a sling and no sticks. Of course I may have to go prone.

Randy, I'll pull one leg off my Sniper Styx and we can take turns using them, OK?

Some basic math.
Entry fee 40.00
+30 for the 200 = 70.00
+30 for the 300 = 100.00
+30 for the 400 = 130.00
+30 for the 500 = 160.00
Might be a little steep for some of the guys.

Sorry Dan, I guess I wasn't clear enough.

Your $40 entry fee makes you a 3 round shooter at each stage.

If you kill your egg at 200YDs, you will be a 3 round shooter for the 300YD stage. Kill your egg there and you are still a 3 round shooter for the 400YD stage, etc. You only pay your entry once, and it allows you 3 shots at each stage for as long as you can kill your eggs and stay in the game.

If you choose, you can buy 1, 2, or 3 additional shots (good for each stage). Same deal as the above paragraph except you would be a 4, 5, or 6 round shooter at each stage.

So,

$40 = you get 3 shots at each stage you qualify for
$60 = you get 4 shots at each stage you qualify for
$80 = you get 5 shots at each stage you qualify for
$100= you get 6 shots at each stage you qualify for

The maximum you could spend would be $100, but you can also shoot the whole match for $40. Don't forget the 2 minute time limit. It stays the same no matter if you are a 3 or 6 round shooter.

The only kicker (and maybe where I got confusing) is that you can change your status in between stages. Say you spent $40 and were a 3 round shooter. You killed your eggs at 200 and 300YDs but your upcoming stage at 400YDs was starting to make you a little nervous. You could choose to buy extra shots at that point, and change your status to a 4, 5, or 6 round shooter for the rest of the match.

OH yeah, no "rollovers". If you kill your egg with the first shot, good for you, but you don't get to carry over your unused shots to the next stage.

Wheeew! That's better. Thanks for the clarification.

(edit) The purchase of extra stage shots must be made before you start shooting that stage, right? Shooting three misses and then asking to buy three more shots to continue would not be allowed, I assume.

I'd rather shoot prone as well, much more stable than sitting and shooting ..... Leon what is the ruling on shooting prone?

My first impulse is to say no prone allowed just because it can be pretty stable with an experienced shooter. Same deal as with the tripod type shooting sticks. On the other hand shooting off of sticks can be fairly stable too with the right setup, and none of them comes anywhere close to the stability of shooting from a bench.

I suppose the real answer is that the rules aren't written in stone until we start accepting money for entries, and I'd be open to suggestions (as long as it doesn't get too wild and contentious).

If you do have suggestions, please bear in mind the underlying purposes of this little experiment though.

It's to encourage more people to actually attend the hunt, maybe generate some new membership, and encourage members who haven't ever been competition shooters to join in the fun, and give them a decent chance to win too.

I think that means introducing a handicap to level the playing field and take away the advantage of having a super accurate rifle. Given an inherently (relatively speaking) unstable platform to shoot from, the contest becomes more about ability than equipment.

Maybe we could allow shooting from prone but require that you be laying on an ant hill?

Leon

Leon, Can I provide my own eggs?

Only if you can prove that you layed them Cross J.

LOL .....How 'bout if I provide everyone elses then

Prone and shooting sticks sounds like a good platform to me. But with my gut it would be like lying on a basketball. Does that qualify as an acceptable handicap?

If I should decide to shoot prone, will there be someone there to help me get back up? I might look like the old lady on the commercial "I've fallen and I can't get up". Need one of those buttons I guess.

Sticks? Prone? Some guys, me included can't get up off the ground. How 'bout we do this standing, off-hand, no slings?

How about this, one shooter at a time sitting on the same log or whatever, Using shooting sticks, that would be 2 sticks not connected by any mechanical means, and not bigger in diameter than the barrel on your 13.5# maximum rifle. This would be more like a hunting scenario with a minimum in written rules.

I suppose we could possibly make a few exceptions to the rules.

For those Texas and Oklahoma guys, we could allow them to shoot out of the window of their truck. Of course space and safety considerations would mean they couldn't actually put their truck on the firing line, so they'd be required to bring just the truck door to the firing line.

For those guys that don't have access to shooting sticks, we might consider allowing them to use their spotter in a slightly different manner.















Well, maybe not. Either of those two exceptions might be too much of a handicap for the other shooters. It's hard to shoot well while rolling on the ground laughing hysterically.



Jokes aside, I think since It's the way most of us hunt coyotes, one or two legged unattached shooting sticks, using a stool or sitting on the ground, will be it. Other than just keeping it simple, I wouldn't have any objection to someone wanting to shoot offhand, but unless he could rival Annie Oakley, I doubt that he'd be competitive. I've shot many many thousands of rounds offhand in Highpower and Silhouette comps, and I wouldn't want to compete against someone with sticks.

Prone with sling really does give an advantage, especially to guys that shoot the position in comps, so I think that's out too.

Having one shooter on the firing line at a time would be an excellent improvement to any competition in my opinion. Unfortunately it would also extend the time needed for the match considerably, unless there are only a few shooters.

The number of shooters on the firing line will be dependant on the number of shooters competing, in the end. I would like to be able to do it in two or three relays max, just for the time considerations. Remember, most guys will probably be shooting at 2-4 different ranges.

I would like to be able to complete this in 2 or 3 hours in the middle of the day, during the least productive coyote hunting time, so that guys could compete, and still get in morning stands and evening stands. This is after all, a part of the PM Globe Hunt.

Leon

Any restrictions on scopes?

Harold

Any restriction on caliber? A .600 Nitro fires a bullet about as big as an egg.

"Nope, none at all."

And no shotguns either!

If I come, I might bring my .17HMR, or would that be to unfair. At 400 yards, the report alone might bust the egg.

Well, the diesel is expensive, but I really think that I could truck that gun out there. I mean, I would have to get the wide load permits and the pacer cars, but I think I could swing it.

Yeah, you'd have to truck it in. It'd be easier to put it on a train, but then we'd have to call it a RailGun and disqualify it as benchrest.

I'd like to know if you are going to provide a place to check the sights on the rifles before the shoot? How about coffee and donuts?

Okay so you are going to let the Texans shoot out of our hunting rigs???? If this is true then Look out guys....

Can I use my ladder?

You can't shoot from your hunting rig Jason, but if you want to take the door off of your truck and bring it to the firing line...

I'm trying to imagine that Michael. I've never shot from a ladder, but you must have either one LOOONNNNGGG pair of shooting sticks, or a very short ladder.

I think checking sights would be OK right there on location BEFORE the match. Some deli sandwiches or something might be more appropriate, and unlike donuts, there might actually be some left for other folks after I got into them.

I don't use caffiene before a shoot, but whatever floats your boat (or teeth).

Leon

Thats me on the right, Pup on the left. My shooting stick is fully extended, but it's used shorter and hooked to one of the steps. We were in a parking lot before the SE Arizona hunt..... The shuttle burned up that very morning right about the time this picture was taken.

This is one of many Texas Hunting Rigs

Nice rig Jason.

There's a lot on I-35 just north of San Antonio that I always wanted to stop at and take pics, but it didn't appear to be a good place for a big rig to be.

They had enclosed blinds on some sort of hydraulic or pneumatic lifts, mounted in the beds of a couple of pickups. One of them was run up a good 10' above the bed. It's illegal to use that sort of rig here in AZ, but they looked cool as heck.

I have seem them to they are nice, if I could afford it I would get one I have some paper work on different ones.. They are nice...

"It's illegal to use that sort of rig here in AZ,"

Is that because of the no shooting from a vehicle law?

Yes, you could make up a trailer and unhook the truck at every stand. That would be legal. but I wonder about practicalty. Those Texas rigs are big for night hunting and we can't call predartors ... except for Racoons .... at night.

Its a bummer that I cannot use it in Az.
I also use it in day time use its even more fun when you see them coming in from far away, even wacking them way out. I have taken many coyotes on day hunts, as well as night hunts..
I plan on building another type that will hold 2 hunters side by side, or back to back this way each will have a 180 view they will have there own chairs and lighting system.

Dang! Nose bleed for sure!
It would seem that the recoil generated by the first shot would lay that entire rig on its side!!! Does the chair lock in place or do you spin like a top after the shot?

I can see where a rig like that would work great in the Texas Flatlands, but with all of the side hilling that you have to do in Arizona you might need seat belts and a shoulder harness just to stay in the seat. But then you would be able to see and shoot over a hill, wouldn't you?

Seriously, very nice rig!

Just curious, will the eggs be sitting on a table of sorts? Hung by a rope? if they are sitting on a table, and the bullet strikes the table infront of the egg but still manages to break it, does that count? If hung by a rope, what if the rope gets shot and the egg drops to the ground? Does that count?
Just what holds the eggs in place?
I will be amazed if many of us can hit an egg at 200 yards, off shooting sticks, let alone 300 or 400 yards!

I am a little concerned with the whole egg shoot deal. WHy an egg, I mean come on, let's get challenging. How about an alka-seltzer tablet or an aspirin?

If I was attending, I would show you all how to shoot. I can shoot the middles out of Cheerio's. Just open up a package and see for yourself.

The (tentative) plan is to hang them in mesh "bags" to lessen the possibility of accidental hits, but basically yes TR, if your egg is broken you move on to the next stage no matter how it happens.

If the wind is kicking we can start it at a shorter range, but otherwise I would actually expect everybody to hit their egg at 200YDs. I've seen you make first shot hits on a PD with a 17hmr at that range TR. In the Egg Shoot you will have up to 6 shots to do the same thing. A hit moves you on to the next stage whether it's the 1st shot or the 6th.

Read the Egg Shooting Test thread in this forum, and try it out for yourself. I think you'll find it's not as difficult as you're thinking. I've allowed for up to a 500YD stage, but I honestly think the field will be cut a lot at 300YDs and the winner will possibly be determined at 400, basically because we will all be shooting from sticks (with no wind).

I've never competed in one, but there have been a number of 1000YD egg shoots. Those are off a bench of course, and using (mostly) heavy benchrest guns.

Leon

Guys,
My daughter won the GO Go Varmint Egg Shoot(youth division 18 and under) two years ago when she was only eleven! She hit 10 eggs at 100yards and 7 eggs at 200yds(sudden death shoot-off) with a completely stock Ruger 77VT in 22PPC. I would be surprised if everyone doesn't get their egg!
An easy way to hold the eggs is to hot glue them to a golf tee and stick them into holes drilled in a 2x4 frame. You will definitely be able to tell a true hit! Can we all say "Scrambled"!

Nikonut

I hadn't even considered golf tees. Thanks Nikonut, that may be just the ticket.

Tees work great and you can still use the cartons to carry the eggs, too. Just be sure and leave the eggs out of the refrigerator to warm up a bit or they will sweat making them harder to glue.

Nikonut

Where can we find golf tees appropriate for my eggs? I get to shoot at ostrich eggs, the rest of y'all get to shoot at hummingbird eggs.

No problem! I'll turn some "special", Ostrich egg sized tees just for you Weas! I can't wait to see this!

Nikonut

The reservation normally doesn't allow target shooting, they are making an exception for us, and we will be limited to the 1st.

So yes, you will be able to re-check a 1 or 200YD zero before the shoot, but you probably won't be able to start from scratch figuring comeups for further ranges.

PG48, Last 2 times I have gone out there, I kept the guns in soft cases on top of everything else. I really seemed to work out. I also have a 4 rifle SKB hard case that you can borrow if you wish. I am only about 25 minutes down the road from you. I live behind El Vaquero in Westpark on the west side of Stilly.

Is a 40X barreled action in a Remington 700 BDL stock legal?

Bill

Should be Bill, as long as it's under the weight limit. Mine is, even with a wooden highpower stock.

I need new bathroom scales, that didn't prove anything, except they aren't accurate or repeatable.

Weight limit? what weight limit? I had to go back and read the first post, then weigh my cooper. it came in at 15 lbs. I reckon I will have to start over. and it was getting downright scary. Oh well.

A 15lb Cooper? What have you got there Randy, a 1.25" bull barrel 28" long, and lead in the stock?

I doubt you will be over Bill, my 40X with a full bull barrel and a wooden highpower stock is just under the limit.

a 243 with a 26 inch S/S 1 inch tube and a HS precision stock. 8-32 Burris scope. It loves 105 Berger VLD's. I thought I could not worry about the wind with that one. LOL

I probably missed it somewhere .... WHAT WEIGHT LIMIT? ... and I did look ... what would the rifle weight limit be for this shoot?

13.5 pounds according to the first paragragh in the first post.

And how did I miss that? I skimmed and ran a search on weight limit but didn't find the FIRST paragraph. From my life expereinces, being an idiot has no advantages that I've been able to find.

Personally I don't care what you guys use at the shoot as long as everybody feels included.

Leon,

I assume that proceeds go toward offsetting PM costs?

$bob$

LDhunter, You are correct.

ALL the funds from this hunt , advertising and all the auctions and fundraisers that members do during the year, along with regular donations, go to keeping Predator Masters running and growing.
Access to our board is free because of these thing, and the tons of work that volunteers do throughout the year.

Access to this board means access to the advice, wit and wisdom of some of the best in predator hunting. It means we hear about the latest gear and techniques, along with several opinions of "actual in the field" use, without pressure from advertisers and manufacturers. We welcome all here, newbie and experienced alike. We want to hear from all about their time in the sport.

Thanks for asking and allowing me to beat the drum a little.

Leon - I've got a question on the following rule:

"No rests, no benches, no bags, no bi-pods or tri-pods. All shooting will be from unattached one or two legged shooting sticks,"

I've been batting this around with a friend. It is fairly clear that bi-pods are not allowed. A question arrises when the "unattached". Can the shooting sticks be attached to each other or do they need to be two completely different unattached to each other sticks?

Unattached as in not attached to your rifle. Shooting sticks. Not tripod type (I'll take off or fold back the third leg of my Stony Point Polecat sticks). Presumably the sticks will be attached to each other in some fashion.

I'm asking for a clarification. My 40X is less than 13.5 pounds and the forearm is less than 3.5 inches, is it legal for the shoot?

Bill

I'm going to go out on a limb and say yes. Under weight and inside the stock measurement.

OK, thanks. I'm set.

Bill

Just a question, does one HAVE to use shooting sticks? Would it be acceptable to freehand? I can brace better than I can use those sticks, and while I like them, I am not used to them. I am still trying to find a way to make it out this year, but I am not holding my breath.

Jeff, You mean could you shoot without any support (and not prone)? Yeah, I guess you could, but I honestly don't think you'd be competitive. That would be a pretty tough row to hoe. On the other hand, it would make for some king sized bragging rights if you could pull it off.

btt