Starline Rifle Brass vs Lapua Rifle Brass Review

TXCOONDOG

TXCOONDOG

Well-known member
I bought new Starline in .308 to compare to new Lapua brass. I necked turned, annealed and fire formed both manufactures of brass and bump the shoulder back .002" on 20 pieces for testing.

I wet tumbled, trimmed the Starline and Lapua to the same length, seated a fired primer in both cases and measured volume in grains of water and the Starline held .2 tenths more water on average.

Ran the same loads using 44.7 grains of Varget, 165gr SST and Federal 210 primers out of a 16.5" 1:12 twist 700 barrel with Ti can.

Disclaimer: This is my load for my rifle and you need to work up your own safe loads for your rifle.

Accuracy was virtually the same (.480"-.600") shooting five shot groups at 100yds.

The Starline had to be annealed after each firing because of case hardening & spring back (Lapua every other firing)and sometimes had to be resized twice in the die in order to bump the should back .002". The primer pockets started loosening on the Starline after two firing, lost 5 pieces on the 3rd firing and by the 5th firing, none of the brass would hold the primers.

I'm now on twenty firings with the Lapua and found two pieces of brass with loose primer pockets.

Just my experience with the two manufactures of rifle brass.
 
I don't think 44.7gr Varget w/165 in a 308 is what I'd consider a hot load. Upper end maybe but not necessarily beyond the working range.

I can't recall ever using Starline brass in a rifle but losing any primer pockets after only three times doesn't exactly excite me to run out and start using any either. I know Lapua brass is generally one of the most expensive but, for me, it easily pays for itself in the long run.

Thanks for taking the time to compare the two and do a write up about your findings.
 
I was surprised by the results and disappointed. I've ran Starline brass in pistols for years in 10mm, .357 mag and 44 mag and definitely went over book max as high as 1.5 grains and never had a loose primer pocket.

Matter of fact, I use Starline in my 450 BM (straight wall cartridge) and it has held up when the Winchester brass had loose primer pockets on the 10th firing.

I've also had good results with Remington, Winchester (NATO), and Lake City (Nato) in my .308 when the Hornady brass had loose primer pockets on the 4th or 5th firing.

It's too bad as I have 500 pieces of Starline in 308 and 5.56 (have not tried).

It is what it is.
 
I've been using starline in my 222 Rem and 6.5G and like it alot. Lapua in my 222 Rem target loads and I'd be hard pressed to buy anymore as I haven't noticed enough advantage to offset the price.
 
I don’t load hot in 308 but I get case head separation using Starline brass the 4th or 5th loading. Doesn’t blow off, just a noticeable crack. I’ve had good luck with it in the Valkyrie.
 
I had a lot of problems with 308 and 270. Both of which i bought a pile of last year.

The running a case through a die 2 or 3 times to get it to bump, then taking the next one and grossly over sizing it is new to me. Also the, what seems like endless trimming was also new to me.

The case heads are nice and hard.

I will sit on it until i get an annealing machine. Someday.... Or sell it during the next panic.

I switched to range pick up LC Nato/New Hornady for the 308, and Winchester brass for 270, and have had no problems. Except perhaps the Hornady brass is a bit softer at the base. Its a worthy trade off to not have pull my hair out setting up the sizing die. Trimming is about my least favorite task in the process as well.

Starline 45-70 goes in and out of a sizing die with much more force than other brands but seems to work ok. I have 11 full house loads through Hornady 45-70 brass and it still goes into the sizing die smoother than a new Starline case does.

I am on my 2nd fire of their 5.56 brass and so far, so good. Very strong.

I have yet to prep the brass with 2 firings. It will likely need trimmed again. LoL.. Will see.

I would like to see them succeed. Cartridges for all the obsoletes, and the availability through hard times is really cool. I think very highly of their business model. I am certain brass quality will get better as things settle down.
 
If your getting case head separations, it isn't the brass it's your prepping technique. Brass won't separate if it fits the chamber. All manner of maladies can beset brass but case head separation isn't one of them if it fits the chamber. If loading the same caliber for different rifles I either set the headspace to each rifle with the same gauge or have different dies or different shell holder(ground to the correct headspace) for each rifle and keep the brass separated by rifle.

Over the years (60 yrs of reloading) I've found that running your pressures so close to the ragged edge that you start opening primer pockets aren't that advantages, slowing your load slightly or changing powders will get you the same accuracy. Opening primer pockets isn't very far from blowing primers and that can cause some serous damage. Yes I've opened primer pockets and have blown primers but try to make sure it is something I can avoid..

My biggest problem with brass is split necks because I tend to get lazy about annealing, usually waiting until I get a split neck and then annealing the whole batch. I don't have a machine, but just a propane torch, deep socket to fit the case and a battery drill, works just fine.

I don't tumble brass, if carbon builds on the outside of the neck I will chuck them up in a Lee shell holder for the Lee trimmer and clean the outside of the neck with a green 3M pad same as I use for sweating copper plumbing. I do brush the inside of the necks, clean primer pockets, and trim each loading. I do hate setting up trimmers so over the years have purchased a number of trimers so I can have one set up for each cartridge I load, even keep a turret press set up with a number of Lee Quick Trims and Lee hand trimmers for low volume cartridges.
Old Lyman turret press set up for trimming
OSN2DK.jpg


I tend to try and load safe sane loads for everything, if I feel I have to push a cartridge to get it to perform it is time to get a different cartridge or lower my expectation.. I have developed wildcats from scratch, load wildcats from others and load a couple of oddball cartridges with no data available any longer.

I can honestly say that I've rarely(never had) problems with brass that I hear others have. Most of my rifles have never seen a factory loaded round other than shooting it for the brass. Only my 7x57R shoots factory ammo as I can't load any better for it and the ammo was quite cheap and I stocked up on it for the brass if I ever need it.
 
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AWS,

You have me curious as shell holders are pretty hard. What method do you use to shave the shell holders down to keep them flat and precise?

Seems to me, that grinding or modifying the shell holder can weaken it even if it's only .001"-.003".

Or am I misunderstanding something?
 
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Grinding shell holders for headspace is a new one on me.....

Generally, the reason to shorten a shell holder is due to a long chamber and/or die, which means the die bottoms out the top of the shell holder before the shoulder can be bumped back far enough to chamber the round.

Gunsmiths regularly take .010" off with no issues. You can use coarse emery paper on a flat surface to sand them down. Getting them perfectly flat is not required, as there's no reason to touch the die anyway.
 
The holders must not be heat treated (mild steel) if you can use emery paper.

alf,

I understand that, but "good enough" is not something that my OCD can handle...LOL

Greg,

Do you hand sand, dremmel, use a belt sander or file and then sand smooth?

I've been able to headspace all my brass but need some "cam over" in order to get consistent results.

I've only been reloading for 8 years or so...you guys are like the teacher I never had!!!

Appreciate the response all.
 
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Sometimes when installing a factory chambered shouldered barrel on a rifle that it wasn't originally on such as my Rem 722 with a Rem 700 barrel the head space can come up a little short. Factory ammo will chamber snugly but standard reloads will be tight so I take a little off the top of the shell holder so the case can go further into the die and set the should back enough to chamber the shell easily. I do as alf said emery cloth on a flat plate. I do use a micrometer and try to keep the surface level all around. Doing it this way I can keep the die set for a different rifle and just have to change out the shell holder for the short chambered rifle. I color the modified shell holder and store it with the brass for that rifle. It is a lot easier and cheaper than renting a reamer and re cutting the chamber.

Your not taking off a lot of material, we're talking thousandths, not enough to need heavy removal. Any time yo need more it is time to break out a reamer and redo the chamber.
 
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Originally Posted By: AWSIf your getting case head separations, it isn't the brass it's your prepping technique. Brass won't separate if it fits the chamber. All manner of maladies can beset brass but case head separation isn't one of them if it fits the chamber. If loading the same caliber for different rifles I either set the headspace to each rifle with the same gauge or have different dies or different shell holder(ground to the correct headspace) for each rifle and keep the brass separated by rifle.
I load for 5 different 308’s and am not doubting what your saying but I only see the separation with Starline brass. The son in laws factory Savage is a gun I’ve seen do it the most. At the time I chalked it up to to many times fired brass but did consider it had a chamber problem. I loaded him up 400 Hornady and Starline for Christmas and it looks good after firing once.
 
I shoot lots of wildcats that would have shoulder setbackband I can't use a standard die/holder interface. Some bumo shoulders back 10-20 thousands. I use a bench grinder to pull 0.010 tp 0.020 off the top. I don't care if it's perfectly even as it will never touch. I have had no chambering issues. We did the orig inal 243vLBC using 6 PPC dues and gender off about 0.020 on them. 10 reloads on many cases never caused an issue. On tge NXS using HAGAR brass I hold off about that much and have no problems. The grinder works for me. I am machine poor so do what I can. I turned my 223 KEE UNIVERSAL decapper down to 20 caliber with a drill and flat file.

Greg
 
Quote:If your getting case head separations, it isn't the brass it's your prepping technique. Brass won't separate if it fits the chamber. All manner of maladies can beset brass but case head separation isn't one of them if it fits the chamber. If loading the same caliber for different rifles I either set the headspace to each rifle with the same gauge or have different dies or different shell holder(ground to the correct headspace) for each rifle and keep the brass separated by rifle.

Over the years (60 yrs of reloading) I've found that running your pressures so close to the ragged edge that you start opening primer pockets aren't that advantages, slowing your load slightly or changing powders will get you the same accuracy. Opening primer pockets isn't very far from blowing primers and that can cause some serous damage. Yes I've opened primer pockets and have blown primers but try to make sure it is something I can avoid..

As stated above, case head separation can be caused by over-working your brass; that is bumping shoulder a bit more than necessary repeatedly will displace the brass (requiring trimming more often than would be expected may result). This results in thinning of case and often results in a visible "pressure ring" appearing where the solid case head joins thinner side walls of the case. It can also be detected by running a bent paper clip down case wall and an indentation can usually be felt before case failure occurs.

Soft brass does not cause case separation but can result in premature case head expansion/loose primer pockets after just a few firings. Of
course, excessive pressure can cause loose primers on the best of cases.

Originally Posted By: alf
Grinding shell holders for headspace is a new one on me.....

Generally, the reason to shorten a shell holder is due to a long chamber and/or die, which means the die bottoms out the top of the shell holder before the shoulder can be bumped back far enough to chamber the round.

Gunsmiths regularly take .010" off with no issues. You can use coarse emery paper on a flat surface to sand them down. Getting them perfectly flat is not required, as there's no reason to touch the die anyway.

Quote:You have me curious as shell holders are pretty hard. What method do you use to shave the shell holders down to keep them flat and precise?

Bought my first loading press in 1954 and it still serves as my only single stage press. Herters shell holders are a bit softer than others and a bit thicker, not to mention almost impossible to find today. This proved to be a problem in bumping shoulder sufficiently used in conjunction with my set of RCBS dies. Faced the shell holder off in the lathe to resolve the issue.

Have run into the problem on one or two more shell holders of various makes since I sold my lathe and, while not necessary to hold 100% true, found that the drill press serves well (to save burned fingers)
49588978421_0913a4567c_m.jpg

49588490973_9450c793d4_m.jpg

just grind the head down on a 1/4" machine bolt as shown & use coarse emery cloth on a flat surface.
49588486748_51be9e2ded_n.jpg


Regards,
hm
 
C&H made a adaptor for the Herters presses to use standard shell holders, I have one on my Lyman TruLine Jr press that I use for trimming now..the Lyman used to be my go-to for reloading the bugs(Hornet and Bee), I bought a 7/8x14 head for it to use standard.dies.

C&H used to be homed in WI and was my go-to for reloading equipment. Presses, trimmers and powder measures were top of the line. I still use their trimmer and dies. They still have the greatest selection of dies of any company and great quality, I use their .264 to .260.bullet.swager.for my 6.5x58R Sauer which has a very tight groove diameter.

I just looked, they still list the Herters adaptor.
 
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Adapter

Thanks, Erich, I do have one of those. The only problem with them is that you cannot prime using them, but I hand prime, so that's no issue. I load most of my ammo on the Dillons, but a few of my bigger cartridges still prefer the single stage for those.

Regards,
hm
 
Grinding the shell holder (used my bench vertical belt sander and grinding wheel) work like a charm and no more stressing the press.

Appreciate the info all.
 
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