Maybe just me, but, who else is upset about all of the guys running around with pirated copies of aftermarket sounds today?

Lot's of used e-callers being sold with additional sounds (and guaranteed they aren't deleting their copies as agreed with artist). Many others just passing them around for free to each other.
Social Media and "EmFKay" has exploded and posts of what sound to play each day is like "Soup of the Day" on a Menu. Prices per sound have gone through the roof now, but now they all just get one guy to buy the sounds and pass them around like a "group buy"..


I paid for my copies of sounds and the purchase price of each SHOULD limit or deter it's overuse...BUT if it's only $8.99 split between 5 guys on a "group buy"...or if just given away to buddies they are trying to impress..well they spread like wildfire.

Nobody wants to comment...imagine that...

It's a tough call Driven. I have sold all of my sounds direct to Foxpro and then they become the owners and can distribute as they see fit. I collected a one time sum. Now things have changed and you can buy sounds lots of places. I don't know what is fair, because if you limited sounds somehow to a one time use it would leave a lot of people (like me) in a quandry. I have 4 or 5 different callers that I use at different times. All foxpro. So if I purchase a sound, I will want to put it on all of those callers. I have a Krakatoa for extreme wind and open country days, a X24 for most days, my old CS24 rides in the side by side most of the time, and a couple smaller infernos because they are tiny and fit in a backpack when elk or deer hunting and a lot of days my elk hunts turn into coyote hunts if they are spotted or heard.

If people are just passing them around, there isn't much you can do. If they are selling them that's a different story if they are proprietary sounds.. I've bought used callers that have additional sounds on them, they were paid for by the original owners, should I erase them?

I, like a lot of others have been around this sport for a long, long time. Years ago I had a Wildlife Technologies WT something. Anyway It had a lot of sounds on it and if you wanted more or to change them you had to send the unit back. You paid for the sounds, yet you could not remove them from the caller. That was a problem with a lot of guys including me. Along came Foxpro and changed that immediately with the ability to program their unit.

Then there were the guys that figured out how to hack into the WT, and we had all the sounds we paid for on our Foxpro's. Happy days. The Johnny Stewart sounds were the hottest thing going back then as were the WT's.

I have and know of others that have literally hundreds of sounds that have been passed around over the years, is that a bad thing, that would be up to the individual. My main caller is a CS24 it has 155 sounds on it. More than a few were probably Cal's creations.

The original purchaser has to decide to retain his rights to the sounds he purchased or pass them on to the new buyer, but not both. This is in ALL of the current Artist's agreements upon purchase.

Guy's are simply passing them around and sweetening their deals on e-callers when they upgrade. End result is all the younger crowd of FB is passing sounds around like wildfire and blatantly selling callers with copies of all the sounds they've acquired. The natural "cost" associated with a sound as deterrent, is no longer there and they enjoy the spoils of others simply giving them away free, who again give them away etc..
End result everybody in America is ruining these sounds by overplaying them as fast they are created.

Driven, as someone who has recorded and sold a lot of sounds, I understand the problem. I don't know the solution. I don't know how you chase down those doing it.

It is the same with music. Technology has advanced to the point that there is little that can't be copied and passed around. I think the solution might be making callers that can't be loaded with sound except by the manufacturer, but then someone is going to start a new company that ignore that. One of the big complaints about WT was you couldn't load sounds to it on your own. So it seems if you don't like a caller because you can't load sound on it your opening up to everyone loading sounds from wherever.

I have a question. If you record a sound that a live animal makes, is it yours or does it belong to the animal that made the sound you recorded?

If you make a recording, of a sound made with an artificial means (hand call) and sell it to FP and they either give it to someone or someone buys the sound, who now owns it? Did anyone tell that someone he or she could not could resell it or give it away?

Is this a moral or legal issue?

I was given some sounds and asked not to distribute them, to this day I haven't.

I believe when a person buys a caller, your buying everything included, including the sounds. If a person wants to change the format to run on different brand callers for their personal use so be it.

You can copywrite a unique sound you've recorded and it becomes yours. If you sell it, it becomes the property of the buyer whether you still have rights to it depends on the contract you have with the buyer. So, it is both a legal and moral issue.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=can+you+co...B01&PC=U531

There are certain callers that come with sounds when you buy it, but you can't use them with other callers you own.

AWS, I believe you are correct. Most of the sounds I have sold I signed a copywrite over to the new owners. My wife is a songwriter amongst her other talents and they have numerous ways of copywriting a song. A funny story. I have an awesome coyote sound that I have kept very private. One day I was out working and had a rancher who's place I was working for damage along with me. I played this certain sound. He informed me that he sure liked that sound and it really worked well for him. I said he must be confusing it with something else because it was a sound that only a couple people in the world have. He assured me that he had that sound. I assured him again that he didn't. He said that he [beeep] sure did and it came on a call that he had bought from one of my very good friends. He was right. When I swore that friend to secrecy and never sharing that sound, I never dreamt in a million years that he would sell one of his old callers to anyone. When I asked the friend about it, he felt terrible and had kind of forgot that sound and a few others were even on the old call he sold when he upgraded callers. Thankfully the rancher that bought it is computer illiterate and they won't go any farther than him.

This is indeed a very old problem. The tech has changed but the basics haven't, sellers want to get paid for their sounds & people want to use them on multiple callers, share with friends, sometimes outright steal copies in order to avoid paying anything.

No, I don't have any ideas on how it could be fixed but it's not a new problem.

The biggest issue is that the cost is a deterrent so only those willing to pay for them have them. When 4 goes go in and buy ALL the EmFKay sound library and hand it out to everyone in your area to every newb on social media who is done deer hunting, I think as a person who gave good money for those sounds like myself has every right to be a little frustrated when these sounds send the coyotes running for the hills..
It's sad because they were such good sounds too..

Its unfortunate that sounds could send a predator running for the hills.

If you think about it, the caller manufacturers are more to blame than the bloodthirsty pirate that steals the sounds. They want to sell callers, so they give sounds away, which means that sounds have little value. Times change, someday the monetary worth of sounds may change, and you will have to buy them again. When that happens, don't buy sounds that cause predators to run for the hills.

With all the information on this site, one would think you could learn how to call a predator the right and proven successful way.

There are a lot of ways to call predators, I doubt there is any one "right and proven successful way" if there is please enlighten us. I know I don't call the same way everytime but rely on the terrain, wind and even time of the year to dictate how I call a stand. A lot of the people that come here do so to learn. Maybe you could help teach them something you've learned over the years.

Even if you had to pay for the sounds from the call manufacturers once they are on someone's caller they are fair game to pirate.

Wrong..The only rights to that sound is to the original purchaser. The Sounds the E-caller mfg's furnish on their callers are different. They have exclusive distribution rights of those sounds to be furnished on their callers as originally loaded.
Whenever you download any additional sounds from Foxpro or others you are agreeing to exclusive use of that sound to you the purchaser. Foxpro includes this "Sound Pack Agreement" with every download.
The artists also have this agreement with the purchaser.
You do NOT have the rights to give that sound away even if you delete your copies of it. You can't sell the caller with it on there either.

Not only immoral but illegal. All it does is rob the artist and those who've paid for their sounds.

Sorry if I you miss understood me, pirate(illegally copy).

At the top post on this page, I also said "it is both a legal and moral issue".

Gotcha..

I know not a lot can be done about it, but at least if we shame those who do it blatantly (here and other places) it might at least help to limit it.
I mean realistically, they ALL know it's wrong, but yet list e-callers with TT, EmFKay, BOSS sounds on them to sweeten it up..then get this..ask more for it than it sold for new and it's a steal...literally.

That's a pretty gray area, if someone purchases the sound and sells the caller with them on it, I see no problem. If he keeps a copy of the sounds for his new caller or just adds the sounds to sweeten the deal and keeps a copy for himself that is pirating. In the first scenario, the sounds are paid for and they are just moving on to a new owner, kind of like buying a record in a store, you are free to sell it at a later date, you cannot legally make a copy of it.

WOW, opinions are just that. And, facts are, in fact, facts. The fact is, how are you going to, separate the free sounds from the lease sounds, or any other sound, like, the not your sounds, from the ones I made with my hand calls? As sounds are not id'd in any manner that the ordinary user could determinate which is which. I've never signed any legal form that addressed sounds in any way.

So, my conclusion is, if its on my caller, They belong to me, plain and simple. If you would like to dispute that, prove they are not mine.

Legal and moral, if you copy those company supplied sounds off your caller and start selling them, the owner of those sounds can take you to court. If you produced those original sounds by either recording real sounds or recording your sounds from a mouth caller they are yours.

By purchasing a factory made game caller you automatically agreed to there copywrite rules.

This is from the manufacturer owners manual.

"This manual, the animal sounds stored in your caller, and animal sounds purchased from FOXPRO®Inc. for installation in your caller are protected by copyright"

For the sake of argument, which is what happens in a court of law. Let's say, I don't agree. You can show us where anyone ever won a case as described in this topic. Bill Martz spend a lot of money suing people over his sounds to no avail.

Sorry I'm not going to search case law. Copyright laws are well known, if you want to challenge them, go right ahead.

I'm pretty sure that unless it is a blatant violation of a company's copyrighted sounds you aren't going to have a problem but that is where the moral side of the argument comes into play. If you feel that it is ok to sell someone else's copyrighted sounds it is your decision to break the law and then where do you draw the line on breaking the law.

Well now. If the copyright laws are so well known, why don't you just explain them to us dummies??

For you.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=copyright+...B01&PC=U531

No thanks

well looky there. 1 more post and he'll have his 40.

LOL, this is 40, thanks

In the end, it matters not, because this is today's world. It's OK to do whatever you want if nobody speaks up..and nowadays everyone just turns the other way when they see others doing wrong.

I'm not a big enough wheeler-dealer of calls to have even thought about it, I guess I may have sold a Fusion 5 or 6 years ago with a couple TT sounds on it but I'm not sure. My Revolt is 5 or 6 years old and I've only added a handful of new sounds to it.

I guess maybe if we all had to use hand calls or diaphragm calls like duck and goose hunters then nobody would be able to pirate any sounds. Something to think about...