Dedicated rifle for Thermal hunting

bmicek

New member
Currently debating on setting a rifle up that will keep the thermal on it. I see some guys using bolt guns while others using something on the AR platform. I currently am using what I call my “beater” AR which is just 5.56. I actually haven’t had a runner yet but I’d estimate 1 out of 10 needs a follow up shot (shooting 55gr Blitzking). I’m a gear nut so part of the reason I want to set something up it’s just because it sounds fun.

Kind of a two part question. To the guys that use a bolt gun, do you not feel hindered by not having an immediate follow up shot ready to go? I get it, racking the bolt is just a touch slower, but surely that’s means missed opportunity on occasion. What is everyone’s go to for a dedicated rifle for thermal calling?
 
I put my first thermal(was night vision prior to this winter) on my TC dimension because of the stock configuration. My thermal has a base for an AR. The TC with rail could be set for correct eye cup fit. I have the night vision on an AR in 20p. I didn't want to mess with it, if I didn't like the thermal. Never could do quick follow ups with the nv, screen update to slow. The thermal I shot several triples and doubles with the bolt gun, but I run a suppressor so coyote often stop after a short distance. If you get a thermal that uses traditional rings, a rail will allow mounting to any firearm. I hunt in an area with section roads and there can be several farm sites in each section. I'm not comfortable mag dumping on running coyote, especially at night.
 
I switched to an AR not so I can do mag dumps but so I can do a smooth follow up shot without messing with a bolt when seconds count depending on the terrain. I use a 22 Nosler, 22 250 or a 243.
 
Sig Cross 6.5CM. 18” threaded barrel, AR style controls and rail. The ultimate gun for suppressed thermal night hunting IMO
 
I have gone the other direction. Started with a bolt, then used several AR‘s for many years, and I’m back to shooting a bolt action rifle again. I like the reduced weight, quieter operation, and how much cleaner it is shooting suppressed compared to ARs. If I was shooting with a group of guys it might be different.
 
I have a dedicated thermal gun. Currently an 18” Noveske ar with a Sico saker 556 can and super hogster. Great night gun out to 300 or so. I do seem to get more run offs than I should and would like to see more bang flop, so I’m building a bolt gun. Just bought a sig cross and am considering a barrel swap to 6mm creed. More chooch aught to put ‘em down.

I also have horrible tinnitus and the AR still isn’t the quietest. The bolt gun with a better can might be a bit better at the ear.
 
The past 5 years BOTH my dedicated night yote guns are now BOLTS.....Savage 10 .223 and a Savage 11 .243.

I also have a RRA ATH .223wy and a RRA Predator HP .243 that I used in the past...excellent guns that I killed many coyotes with...

Just MY opinion here..

..There's no missed opportunities with a bolt vs a SAR.....concentrate on making the first shot a kill and move to second coyote and wait for it to stop. I'm NOT going to take a "follow up" shot on a coyote that I know is dead on it's feet-"runner". One of the great things with quality thermal is quickly evaluating the shot if it spins or runs. I've had some bad hits...but NEVER thought "if I only had a Semi"...
... the SAR "more faster" follow-up shots mindset before the first shot is even taken is just silly.
I love the smooth flow of shooting coyotes with semis as much as the next guy.....but they aren't a factor in the " can kill more" scheme.

Built want you want and become proficient with it. Be confident that when you lock on and pull trigger that the coyote will drop dead.

...and whatever you build...please make sure it ISN'T a 6.5 notanymoor
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Originally Posted By: limbhanger10
...and whatever you build...please make sure it ISN'T a 6.5 notanymoor

I'd love to hear your reason why?

I understand why the 6.5CM gets a bad rep due to the jack-wagons trying to take elk at 800 yards with target bullets, and rightly so. But as a designated coyote rifle shooting 95gr Vmax bullet, it's outstanding. I've had one run since I started using it, went 50 yards on a heart shot. Everything else has been DRT.
 
Originally Posted By: bmicek
Kind of a two part question. To the guys that use a bolt gun, do you not feel hindered by not having an immediate follow up shot ready to go? I get it, racking the bolt is just a touch slower, but surely that’s means missed opportunity on occasion. What is everyone’s go to for a dedicated rifle for thermal calling?

When you know your mag only holds 5 not 30 you tend to be more meticulous with your initial shot and everything that follows.

Bolt guns are more reliable IMHO, especially in the cold. You can usually make them run. They usually tend to provide better precision also, if you take 10 bolt rifles and 10 ARs I see better groups consistently with bolt Rifles. They are also quieter, whether you want to run subs, or by just not having the automatic cyclic action every time the trigger is pulled.

IF you have any questions on a bolt build let me know, we've put together over 20 in the past couple years, not only for daytime but strictly night hunting as well.
 
The 6.5 CM shooting 95gr V Max is deadly on coyotes. As stated above lots of hate from folks who hear stories of guys shooting elk with it. The coyotes go bang flop when hit with the 6.5 need more and 95gr VMax.
 
Originally Posted By: wolverinesOriginally Posted By: limbhanger10
...and whatever you build...please make sure it ISN'T a 6.5 notanymoor

I'd love to hear your reason why?

I understand why the 6.5CM gets a bad rep due to the jack-wagons ........ Everything else has been DRT.

...strictly typed in jest but didn't see a jester emoji...
 
Friend of mine just purchased a 6.5 Creedmoor for a do all knock around gun and his kids first big game hunts. Our group of friends has been brutal with things like 6.5 manbun and "is it pride week", the memes are hilarious.

But now I cant tell anyone I picked up a sig cross in 6.5 Gonna have to keep it secret until I can get the barrel swapped. lol
 
An accurate AR that runs good is pretty hard to argue against. Make it a sidecharger and it eliminates bolt slam noise as well. Many of the thermals mount at the correct height for the AR platform and it's pretty simple to adapt them to a tripod. Plenty of calibers available too. AR's are easy to unload unlike internal box mag bolts. Weight never bothered me either as I think it helps steady the rifle on the tripod. I prefer a 24" varmint contour for more forward weight to get a neutral balance which requires very minimal ballhead tension.
 
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I love hunting with both AR and bolt rifles. For bolt rifles, some thermal scopes just sit too high, have to be moved so far rearward and just look funky in general. I personally think the 30mm tube type thermals fit a bolt much better and allows for lower mounting which generally leads to a better trajectory, and gives better eye relief. The non-tube types tend to fit an AR better. So, my thinking is to consider the type scope you have, and mount it on the rifle that it fits best.
 
I agree that the non-tube thermals work better and look better on ARs. The first rifle I tried my Apex xq 38 on was a Ruger American Ranch with a 16.5 inch barrel. Balance was horrible along with looks. The next rifle was a Ruger American Predator. Balance was better but the scope was still bulky.

The downside of the Rock River ATH is definitely weight. I had it on a Ruger MPR also but accuracy wasn't stellar unlike the ATH.
 
I’m a bolt guy and the scope look alike thermals are the only way to go imo. The other types work if you change the stock to have a high comb. They come up and feel very natural like a day scope. Who really cares if you miss a coyote or two , they’re not worth much and if you miss that’s breeding stock.
 
I use both. The bolt guns TYPICALLY run more powerful rounds than AR's and rarely need follow up shots on same dog. As said after 1st shot you swing to second dog and wait for it to stop, shoot and then worry about 3rd or back to the 1st. The bolt guns are more at home on longer shots due to that additional knockdown etc. Even with lighter calibers, the bolt guns usually run longer barrels which also "wake up" calibers like the .223 and give them critical velocity gain. The additional knockdown minimizes frequency of runners even on poorly hit dogs and gives a bit more forgiveness that you need with slower follow up shots.

The AR-15 usually have short barrels with less case capacity to work with light calibers (due to pressure and powder capacity limitations)which severely limits their velocity and effective range. It is a better mousetrap inside normal calling ranges, but does require follow up shots a lot when hit poorly and proportional to the range...When hit where supposed to, even at 375yds they go down. When hit poorly in guts, they run and sometimes never found.

I've never owned an AR10, but my speculation is that you get faster followups with heavier calibers, but at the cost of heavier gun and higher cost. The downside is that you almost have to run a Suppressor(more money) with their typical short barrels with large amounts of powder to mitigate muzzle rise/flash/deafening sound. The shorter barrel vs bolt gun will also cost a large loss in velocity, offsetting it's beneficial knockdown somewhat.

In my experience, Thermal on a long barreled 24" AR in .223 is a good compromise with quick follow up shots (when they stop just like the more powerful bolt rifle), but the notion of shooting running dogs with a Thermal on either is just wishful thinking. Each and every trigger pull on moving dogs is pure luck(despite what guys want you to believe). The "latency" or "lag"(not the refresh rate that many try to think it is)varies continuously dependent upon how much info it's trying to translate and display on it's mini tv screen.

I think inside 100 yds, woods, tight areas, I'm taking AR-15 with a short barrel. In open fields I'd opt for the bolt gun and more speed from it's longer barrel/caliber.
As a compromise I'm currently running a 24" AR in .223 and of the 50 or so I shot with confirmed (but probably marginal)hits on last year at various ranges, and I recovered 39 of them. I just accept this is the nature. I shot 4 with .243 and missed several but of the 4 I hit I lost only 1. I hit him and he dropped and was un-concious for 5 mins, while I focused on 2 others. Went back to him and he started trying to stand, sent a second one and thought missed. Next day went in to find him and kicked him up. Didn't bring a gun because of blood everywhere I followed. Anyways, killed him a week later and he had a bullet wound on each side of neck where they grazed him and it was healing.
 
I know it Driven, some people seem to have the darnest luck hitting running coyotes over and over with thermal. Wonder how that happens?
 
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