redwolf,

Depending how far up you are, they have to keep on the move for food, and mainly at night, if they're hunted much in the daytime.
Not meaning that they leave a particular area or nothing, it's just that their "pack area" is much larger for your geographical layout. They need more area in those parts to sustain themselves than in others where there's more food available per square mile.
You might hear them one night and not the other.
That is unless their den is close by...then you should hear them (howling mainly) pretty often and regular. If their den area is on the opposite side of their territory from you, or your stand, you might only see, or hear them rarely. And, any calling might only be successful sporadically when they reach those outer edges.

As far as calls go, the standard cottontail distress, squirrel squeeker, and a good brand bark/howler is what I have. One other call that I use probably more than the others is a "Knight & Hale" Fawn Distress call.
Blown harder than normal, but cupped at the base with your bare hand, it produces the right sound, but can be too loud if not cupped right to contain it. Flaring your cupped hand at the base, only a little, can immitate a rabbit getting the snot beat out of him. Kinda sounds like a cross between that, and a coon squaller....it works very well.
That call seems to work on just about anything considered a predator.....if called too loudly though, it doesn't seem to produce the coyotes as fast as we'd like.
I think they hold up on the fringes when too loud.

I'm embarking on the electronic calls to up our success rates, so I'm buying a "Hunter Specialties" (old Johnny Stewart) Power Calling Combo from Midsouth Shooter's Supply for about $93.00, and adding a seperate digital MP3 player that's about the size of a pack of cigarettes. I can download the calls and use any combination I want.

Were mainly doing this so we can utilize the other calls that are more "electronically specific", like coyote pup distress calls, or woodpecker, fox pup calls, and others. Kind of expanding our library, so to speak.

Our best "stand times" are from pre-dawn, to the last hours before dark. We set up in the dark, just prior to sun up, and after a short settle time, we start with minor series of mouse squeeks, then maybe a soft rabbit distress.
Where we used to jump on a mouth blown coyote "challenge bark/howl" series right after the rabbit, now with the electronic call, we'll probably use a coyote/rabbit distress combo before going to the others.

Our stands last from 40 mins, to an hour. In your area, based on what I believe would be longer distances, closer to an hour would probably be my "self imposed" minimum time.

Just guessing, but originally being from the north country, then moving down here back in the early 80's, it seems that the coyotes are very comfortable living closer to man, than farther away. Hunting in the mountains, or around the foothills might be harder, than in area's of heavier population. Coyote populations in and around the Catskills, and southern tier area's is reportedly quite large.

Good luck......
Bob

Located in the sw cornor of Steuben county. If anyone gets out this way hollar and we'll go hunting. (after deer season is over of course).

coondogger

Coondogger,

Welcome...............

You're not to awful far from me....maybe we could hook up somewhere, sometime, and give the local population hell.

Like I mentioned, I've seen some large dogs just west outside of Dansville, heading towards Nunda. I've hunted "Rattlesnake Hill" over near that area with zero results, but I definitely know they're there. Figuring it's about halfway, it might be an option.
Stueben has got some good spots as well, I'm sure.

I've got a couple photo's of local dogs we've taken, but I don't know how to post them directly on this forum. I think the only way is to post them on other websites and leave a link.
Good luck with deer season, we're not having that great of luck up here this year.

Take care,
Bob

Dansville is about 45 min North of me. I haven't been doing this a long time, but it seems the yote population is climbing in this area. Didn't used to hear them when I was running my coonhounds, now I hear them everytime I go out. Thought I would try to knock them down alittle. We still have lots of foxes here, so there proably arn't alot of yotes, but I would like to keep it that way.

Deer season is just about done here. Haven't seen near as many as I did 2 years ago. Between the yotes, the bear, and the hunters, we have really knocked them down. I'd much rather deal with lots of deer, than lots of yotes LOL.

Funny you mention the apparent low deer population.

We've seen very little this year and it kinda makes me wonder if the DEC isn't inflating their numbers just to sell licenses & permits. I've been hunting for horns this year, and figured I'd use my doe permit(s) for meat, but in deciding to do that. I haven't even seen the scrub bucks around that are normally pretty regular.

Could be a partial result of local coyote populations, but I don't think they'd have that effect on full sized deer. Maybe on the last couple of years of fawn's though...?

My hunting partner and I are gearing up for heavy coyote hunting this season, and are just waiting for the close of deer to get at them solely. He's already nailed one that came in to him while on stand for deer. Young male at about 38-40lbs......20yds.
If your fox population is heavy, it could be that the coyotes just haven't gotten to them much yet. Our fox are still pretty decent, although only slightly down from what they were a few years back, which could be from other factors as well.
Our coyotes have gotten pretty thick, and will start howling only seconds after we've left the woods. I had them howling 80yds. behind me after leaving the swamp last year, and we were standing out in the field talking to the landowner with his tractor running.......weird ?

My partner and I are hell bent on locating our local "large pack's" den this year. We think weve gotten them pinpointed to a one acre woodlot. When we get a fresh snow, were going tracking. Once we know where their den is, we're gonna setup in an adjacent field some night, and thin them out a little.

Take care,
Bob

Bob:

My low deer numbers were in referance to the yotes killing fawns. But bear will do the same thing, and bear numbers seem to be on the increase as well. Yotes will kill off full size deer that are wounded during season though.

I also trap, and have had a number of yotes come into my fox sets. They havn't gotten into the set to work them, but have seen tracks in the snow leading upto with in a few feet of them.

I think the increase in yote numbers has shrunk the packs territory size, and that's why we are hearing more of them around this area. Used to be we'd only hear them in the summer.

Jim

thanks handgunr, good info here I will apply it to see if the change may be the ticket. again thanks for the time and info, good luck on your next outing,

I saw a huge reddish backed, white bellied coyote today at about 2:30 pm running through the deep snow just outside of Rushford. At first glance, I thought somebody had a german sheppard on the loose, but he crossed right in front of the car and it was definitely a huge healthy coyote.

man they can cover territory when they know they are spotted!

I too will try for them and foxes here after deer closes.

I haven't connected yet but figure I cleared most of the screw-ups and might just find 1 mentally challenged preditor this winter. Wait, am I describing myself......nawwww...can't be!


Best thoughts

imlvt

imlvt,

I head down through Rushford to the reservation about once a week or so for smokes & gas. Usually, I head down through Centerville, to Rushford, and then on to Cuba Lake to the Seneca gas station at Mineral Springs.
Maybe I better start carrying my shooting iron with me. There's a lot of lower brush bottom area down through there, as well as one of the state forest area's just south of Centerville.
It looks like a lot of good coyote cover down through there......really. I haven't seen anything over the past couple of years, but once the snow sticks, I'm sure it'll make things a lot easier to see.

I'll definitely keep my eyes peeled .

Take care,
Bob

Handgunr,

I will try to help you out the best that I can as far as calling coyotes.

Are you timing your set-ups?
Are you doing any howling?
Is the vehicle hidden and noise minimal(wispering, shutting vehicle doors, crossing fences)?

I used to call coyotes(that's all I did when I lived in Colorado fo 10 years)and in Minnesota our terrain might be the same as yours.

Stay in the middle of a field, and bring them into the open. Lay down using a harris bi-pod. If you have to move, move the same speed as the second hand on a clock. Having a partner is beneficial to cover more area visually.

Let me know how it goes.

Good luck calling.

Mark

i live in livonia just south of rochester about 30 min. they say the pop. is good here but i've only seen a handful in my life during the day. do any of you guys hunt at knight. i went and got the lightforce 170 and mounted it on my AR. hopefully i can wax some this winter but being my first time hunting yotes i know there will be a lot of learning to do. do you all hunt from the ground or from a stand or both? what works best for you?

Mark,

Welcome & thanks.....

To answer your questions...

No, we really don't time our sets, and we usually give it no more than an hour or so at the very most. We hunt large area's and being that the sound carries a long ways, we like to hold up until were pretty sure that they're not coming.
We call then hold, and call again then hold, starting light and getting a little louder. The secret (at least around here) is to wait them out as they'll hold at the fringes until they're sure that it's a kosher meal.

They all say cunning like a fox....? Those dumb asses come flying in to a load of #4's or 5's. We can't get rid of them usually. You feel obligated to shoot them as it's fox season as well, but you're really wanting the coyotes.

I must be doing something right with the calls, as I've had some older seasoned fella's hear me over on another adjacent ridges calling and they said that it sounded like a cross between a coon and a rabbit getting the snot beat out of them. They said they couldn't tell it was a call, but maybe their just being nice.
I know the calls I use, usually call in every predator around for a distance.......the coyotes I'm sure are there and just waiting in the weeds nearby.

As far as vehicles are concerned...we never hunt near one. We park out on the lanes and usually walk from several hundred yards, to darn close to a mile sometimes before we set up.

I tried howling here.....both as a challenge, and as a response call. If you challenge howl, most of the time you'll get nothing.....and I know that they are there. I hear them when all's quiet, and I have a general idea (within a football fields distance) where their den is.

When the pack decides to open up and let loose with a howling session, I respond back with the same series, and they'll just shut up. Rarely do they respond. Even when I think I've done a series of howl's perfectly (for me), and with all the right responses too, they seem to shut down.
I've done them at night out behind my house, after hearing the howling from them.....they'd shut down, and within 5 mins or so, you'd see the sillhouttes coming across the snow in the moonlight out at 300 yds or so.

They'd make the brush lot out behing my place, and then disappear. Sometimes you can hear them snapping at each other, and so on. Kinda cool to have them in your back yard...at times, makes for some pretty hectic moments running for the rifle & ammo.

Hey Jimmie....welcome as well...

You're not too awful far from me either....about 35-40mins maybe.
I like hunting in treestands a lot.....left over from the deer hunting habits I guess.....I can see them coming in for a long ways, and fox & coyotes don't really have any threats from above, so even though they can & do look up from time to time, they aren't looking up all that much.
Not that they can't, they just work their head level, with their nose going 24/7.
Once they spot you in that stand though....you're toast. They'll always look at it.....that is, unless you end their career before they get away.

Most coyote hunting I do is on the ground with the aide of my hunting buddy. We usually set up with 360 degree view, in snow camo, and if mouth calling, somewhere in an open area, and preferrably, one with a nice brush island out in the middle. We'll utilize hedgerows, standing corn patches, etc., to make the best out of a situation, and in a lot of cases, appears ideal.
We're starting this year with an electronic setup as well, so it'll expand our library quite a bit.....and we'll see.

We have access to several thousand acres locally, and even some state lands as well, so success varies depending on hunting pressure from one area to another.

Sorry so long winded......

Bob

Hey guys,just thought I would chime in here. Good to see some WNY callers. I live in the town of Pendleton, which is about half way between Buffalo and Niagara Falls. I tried a little calling last year with some success (a couple of red foxes)using an E caller with tapes. This year, I am really excited and ready to go. I have a new Fox Pro with a remote and a new Savage 12 VLP in .204. I think by placing the caller about 100yds up wind or cross wind may be the way to not get busted. I want to hunt fox and coyote so I can get a little extra $$ to pay for the Fox Pro. Any suggestions on calling red foxes would also be appreaciated.

Encore,

I get the best responses on red's from using the standard rabbit distress calls, or squirrel distress.
It seems they'll come flying in over anything that sounds like it's in trouble (probably wanting to get in there before the coyotes get it).

I'm not familiar with your area much, but fox or coyotes aren't real particular about inhabiting near well populated areas. They seem to like it, to a point.
Personally, I'd put your FoxPro upwind from where you'll be sitting.
Problem is, sometimes they'll come in from below you heading upwind towards the call and catch your scent.
You can't always tell where they'll come in from, so you try to position things the best you can.
I've had better luck, when hunting with friends that use the electronic calls, to run them crosswind from our position. When the fox come into the call, they'll get downwind from the sound and head straight upwind to it. This puts us alongside it all and undetectable.

Currently, I use mouth blown calls and you know they're coming right for you, so you keep a stronger eye on downwind positions more so.

Good luck,
Bob

Do red foxes tend to circle down wind as much as coyotes do?