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#3313189 - 02/03/23 10:27 AM Will POI change taking after the same suppressor off and on the same gun?
Erie660 Online
Predator Master

Registered: 02/17/21
Posts: 78
Loc: Michigan
I thought I read somewhere that POI may shift from taking a suppressor off and on, has anyone experienced this? Iím due to get mine within a week and I was thinking of just leaving it on my rifle but I heard that if you donít remove it you could have condensation issues. Any advice from experience on these questions? Thanks

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#3313194 - 02/03/23 10:59 AM Re: Will POI change taking after the same suppressor off and on the same gun? [Re: Erie660]
TXCOONDOG Online
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 1823
Loc: TX
Yes. On all my calibers from med-heavy barrels. I see a POI (on/off) shift of 2-4" (elevation/windage) depending on the rifle. Most shoot the best groups with the suppressor on, however, I have a couple rifles that shoot 1/2" tighter with it off.

Now if you mean, sighting my rifles in using the same can, ammo, etc. and then removing for days, weeks, and/or months and re-attaching it, then I have seen no shift (I also load development with the can on).

I leave my cans on for months and have never noticed condensation of any kind.

My recommendation is do your own testing and see how your firearms will perform with/without.

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#3313195 - 02/03/23 11:04 AM Re: Will POI change taking after the same suppressor off and on the same gun? [Re: Erie660]
B23 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 12/07/11
Posts: 2707
Loc: Pacific NW
I've heard of this happening but never experienced it myself. I think it has a lot to do with who's suppressor you're using. I know TBAC and some of the other high end makers pride themselves on no POI change when removing the can then putting it back on.

There's been times when I left my can on and didn't take it off for awhile but I don't think I'd ever leave one on indefinitely.

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#3313196 - 02/03/23 11:08 AM Re: Will POI change taking after the same suppressor off and on the same gun? [Re: TXCOONDOG]
B23 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 12/07/11
Posts: 2707
Loc: Pacific NW
Originally Posted By: TXCOONDOG
Yes. On all my calibers from med-heavy barrels. I see a POI (on/off) shift of 2-4" (elevation/windage) depending on the rifle. Most shoot the best groups with the suppressor on, however, I have a couple rifles that shoot 1/2" tighter with it off.

My recommendation is do your own testing and see how your firearms will perform with/without.


I don't think he meant where it shoots, POI, with the can on versus off but rather is there any POI shift shooting it with the can on, taking it off, then putting the same can back on the same rifle, is there a POI shift.

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#3313197 - 02/03/23 11:27 AM Re: Will POI change taking after the same suppressor off and on the same gun? [Re: B23]
TXCOONDOG Online
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 1823
Loc: TX
Originally Posted By: B23
Originally Posted By: TXCOONDOG
Yes. On all my calibers from med-heavy barrels. I see a POI (on/off) shift of 2-4" (elevation/windage) depending on the rifle. Most shoot the best groups with the suppressor on, however, I have a couple rifles that shoot 1/2" tighter with it off.

My recommendation is do your own testing and see how your firearms will perform with/without.


I don't think he meant where it shoots, POI, with the can on versus off but rather is there any POI shift shooting it with the can on, taking it off, then putting the same can back on the same rifle, is there a POI shift.



I reread it and was adjusting my post as you were posting. Anyway, I covered my experiences. However, I do load develop with my can on. Factory ammo can vary lot to lot and can see where there would be a shift.

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#3313205 - 02/03/23 12:30 PM Re: Will POI change taking after the same suppressor off and on the same gun? [Re: Erie660]
crapshoot Offline
Retired PM Staff

Registered: 03/22/02
Posts: 23358
Loc: Henderson,Nevada,USA
I have not had to resight my rifles after removing and reinstalling my cans but have heard of it happening. Ymmv.
_________________________
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#3313287 - 02/04/23 12:42 PM Re: Will POI change taking after the same suppressor off and on the same gun? [Re: crapshoot]
spotstalkshoot Online
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 12/22/13
Posts: 2630
Loc: so.mn
I have seen this with my direct thread. Seems the short thicker barrels less issues than long sporter type. I will be checking this closely with my TC Icon this summer if I draw non resident elk from Wyoming.

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#3313356 - 02/05/23 02:34 PM Re: Will POI change taking after the same suppressor off and on the same gun? [Re: Erie660]
skinney Offline
Director

Registered: 12/21/09
Posts: 4036
Loc: South Dakota
Lot's of variables to consider.

Many times when you clean your barrel, it shoots at least the first clean bore fouler differently than when it starts fouling up.

So if you are taking your can off to clean your rifle, you can automatically assume it's going to shift slightly.

If you're just removing it to remove it an put it on another host for a while, it should not shift your POI when you attach it to its original host.

I've posted this over the past decade, and it's nothing new, most of our platforms have a shorter heavier contour barrel. IF you think about physics a long thinner profile will flex easier than a shorter thicker contour. Fluting may help also if you look at a flimsy piece of tin vs. a corrugated sheet that is much more rigid.

Generally you get less POI shift, better harmonic stability, accuracy and precision with short/mid length heavy contour vs a sporter.

Also, I've had rifles that didn't shoot as well suppressed as they did without, If you are a reloader, most of the time you can fix it.
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#3313394 - 02/05/23 11:42 PM Re: Will POI change taking after the same suppressor off and on the same gun? [Re: Erie660]
SnowmanMo Online
Director/Moderator

Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 4200
Loc: Phoenix, Az
As the others have said there are a lot of variables.

My YHM Phantom Stainless shows no shift when I take it off one rifle and put it back on.

I have a newer YHM Resonator K...I have noticed some shift. Same muzzle brake adapter so I have to chalk it up to the suppressor. I noticed it worse when it was new...now that I have shot it more it seems to have gotten more consistent.
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#3313408 - 02/06/23 02:58 AM Re: Will POI change taking after the same suppressor off and on the same gun? [Re: Erie660]
Kino M Online
Moderator

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1605
Loc: USA
So the word your looking for is repeatability. Repeatability in precision applications is extremely important, I personally wouldn't own a can that wasn't completely repeatable.

TOMB style taper mounts are now pretty standard for the quality manufacturers and the will exhibit zero POI with removal and replacement.
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#3313444 - 02/06/23 01:32 PM Re: Will POI change taking after the same suppressor off and on the same gun? [Re: Kino M]
spotstalkshoot Online
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 12/22/13
Posts: 2630
Loc: so.mn
There is to much tolerance stacking(machining individual unrelated items) to be able to predict performance. You have to test to know if removing and reinstalling any barrel accessories will cause a poi change/shift.

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#3313499 - 02/06/23 08:43 PM Re: Will POI change taking after the same suppressor off and on the same gun? [Re: spotstalkshoot]
DAA Offline
Director

Registered: 04/23/01
Posts: 5652
Loc: Salt Lake City
Originally Posted By: spotstalkshoot
There is to much tolerance stacking(machining individual unrelated items) to be able to predict performance. You have to test to know if removing and reinstalling any barrel accessories will cause a poi change/shift.


Yup.

Test and know. It's the only way. I have on all my barrels that use a can, as they do get taken off and swapped around, or at least taken off for cleaning. No change in POI on any of mine, so far. But... Test, and know.

- DAA

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#3313501 - 02/06/23 09:12 PM Re: Will POI change taking after the same suppressor off and on the same gun? [Re: spotstalkshoot]
Plant.One Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 4960
Loc: Oakland County, MI
Originally Posted By: spotstalkshoot
I have seen this with my direct thread. Seems the short thicker barrels less issues than long sporter type.


like you, my guns with heavy barrels (most of them) see no noticable 100yd poi shift with or without, and on/off with the can provides repeatable results in both configs. no re zeroing all the time at all.

my can floats between a pile of uppers/calibers. mostly QD but some direct thread still.
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All reloading info shared is based on my experiences in my guns. Follow safe reloading practice and work up loads from published minimum data.
This disclaimer will self destruct in 10 seconds.


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#3313513 - 02/06/23 09:36 PM Re: Will POI change taking after the same suppressor off and on the same gun? [Re: Erie660]
steve garrett Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/18/03
Posts: 2302
Loc: tx
Never seen a gun not RTZ when taking the can of and on over and over. Remember your bench procedure how you test your rifle and how it rides the bags will affect POI. This is probably what some are seeing. Every rifle I have seen shoots better surpressed. Just checked 2 more rifles this week after fresh thread jobs. Probably a sample of 15 now. But I donít doubt others seeing worse accuracy suppressed. I probably will see it too. Just not yet.

When I put the cans on I pay attention to how they thread on and the feel of the snug up
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LONG LIVE THE GREAT GHOST OF THE HIGH DESERT.........THE COYOTE

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#3313668 - 02/08/23 10:45 AM Re: Will POI change taking after the same suppressor off and on the same gun? [Re: Erie660]
wolverines Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 179
Loc: MI
I have a Hybrid 46 I swap out between different rifles throughout the year using direct thread mounts. Never had an issue with POI change.
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