WOA 3 gun 18" barrels

Unfortunately 24 and 24.5 gr of Tac with Hornady 75 gr HPBT and 77 gr Nosler CCs we're the first loads I tried. The Nosler CCs are very accurate in the ARP barrel. I have more loaded up in Starline brass for hopefully tomorrow. I just have Starline .223 brass. I have 5.56 on order.

I have a few 53 gr Vmaxs left I can try. I have several lbs of Benchmark.

I have a private range in my front yard and can shoot all the way to 800. Finding the time to shoot between work and weather is the problem.
 
Another update. I took everything apart and put it back together. I also cleaned it really good. I shot a bunch of old 53 gr winchester HP target bullets that I loaded with 24.5 grains of Tac just to fowl it up again.

From there I shot some groups of 24 and 24.5 grains of TAC with 75 gr Hornady and 77 gr Nosler CCs. Some shot pretty good. I never could get 5 under an inch. I can get 4 and even 3 to clover leaf. All had random fliers. That's where the good ends.

I have something going on. The brass is horribly filthy. I've never seen brass this dirty. And some has a really thick ring of gunk at the base after it's shot. Some of it the ring doesn't go all the way around and it's dirtier on one side. Some of the brass is normal looking with just the neck dirty.

Something else is when I was sighting it back in I accidently loaded some BTs. When I went to unchamber one. The bullet was down in the case.

I did some experimenting and would chamber and unchamber some. Most were good but a few of the bullets were inside the case.

It has to be when it feeds it's pushing the bullet into the case on several. When it fires it's not sealing the chamber. At the same time it's creating all kinds of fliers.

Watching it it appears to be feeding them alright. It was brand new Starline brass with plenty of neck tension. This was out of a 10 Rd PMAG and a 10 Rd ASC mag.

I'm not sure what to do. I've never had this problem. I did have to adjust the feed lips on a mag for my 6x6.8 because it was slamming the round into the feed ramps and stopping. These are being slammed and the bullet is going down in the case. I would hate to crimp and not sure how much it will help with as hard as they have to be hitting.

Edit to add I was getting pieces primers. Not on all the cases but had a few random ones until the end. It pierced the last 8. All CCI 450s.it could be because it's building up excessive carbon or maybe a headspace issue. I have another bolt I can put in it.

It has an adjustable gas block and was adjusted to where it didn't eject and slowly opened u til it did.
 
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On the possibility of crimping, this seems to be why crimping was created? Or more neck tension if you want to go that direction? Others will be along with more AR specific experience to comment, but have you tried crimped ammo in it? May not do too bad if you try? Im truly curious to see others experience on this.
 
Maybe but I always considered bullet set back something that could possibly happen. Not something that will happen everytime. It's brand new Starline brass so I'm sure it has enough neck tension. I tried straight out of the bag and after running a expander down it. Didn't make a difference.

If it's slamming hard enough to where it's pushing the bullet in the case most of the time then I'm not sure if crimping will fix it.

It could be that it's not pushing the bullet in to the case as much as I think. It could be a head space issue causing the fouling.

I'm going to have to do some testing with a new bolt and maybe turning the gas all the way off to see if it's still doing it. I can also chamber the round by riding the charging handle. I ran out of time yesterday.

I've built several ARs in several calibers and have never had this problem before.
 
Thinking about it now, and realizing this is an AR (I'm not the most experienced at them - figured someone w experience woulda chimed in by now), this could be a mag/mag lip bent/alignment issue? Just a thought, but i see that you tried 2 diff mags from different makers.
 
I'm surprised nobody else has chimed in but I think I may have solved the problem. I switched out the bolts. I wasn't really sure if that could be the problem. I switched the bolt and ran a couple patches down the bore. I shot maybe 20 rounds and the brass looked like normal brass.

The BCG came from PSA from their Black Friday sale. I bought 2 of them. They are both different. One says 9310 with MPI under it. The other says MPI with 9310 under it. Different fonts.
I haven't used the second one.
The bolt may be in spec but I could have tolerance stacking. I'll have to put it in another AR to see. I don't think my Calibers are accurate enough to measure anything.

I had an old striped bolt from Damage Industries that I've had for a few years. That's the one I replaced it with. I put it together to use it so I could make sure it was a different manufacturer. Hopefully it holds up.

I guess it was a headspace issue. Maybe the brass wasn't able to expand enough to seal? You see old surplus rifles that cause case head separations but I've never heard of them causing excessive fouling.
When I say excessive it was crazy bad. When you picked up the brass it left your fingerprints in the carbon. I had just cleaned everything and shot maybe 40 rounds the other day, the BCG was already covered and the bolt had really thick blue carbon built up behind the head.
I've went several hundred rounds on other ARs before cleaning and it's nowhere near that bad.

I'll shoot it some more in a day or 2 if the weather gets better just to make sure its solved for sure. I'm also still curious about the accuracy.
 
Another update. The excessive carbon isn't solved. I shot several rounds today and it's back. Accuracy wasn't the greatest. I'm wondering if it's carbon related. It will shoot a group that looks good but has a flier. I can never get 5 under an inch. Always 4 and a flier but then the next group will be 2". I'm not sure what else to do so I emailed White Oak.
 
Originally Posted By: Mort98I would reach out to WOA. Explain your issues. I'm sure they will take care of you!

i came here to say this, but knew in my heart it had already been said.
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op: send them pics of your brass and that load data. that should tell them everything they need to know. i bet you have a shipping label rather fast.
 
Just a WAG, But I would check the gas system. Start with the BCG, is the gas key tight and the two screws staked? Clean the chamber and barrel extension, remove the excess carbon. Single load one rd at a time, shoot, pay attention if the BCG locks back on the mag and what direction the brass is ejecting. Is it ejecting at 4 o'clock position? You may need an adjustable gas block or open the gas port.

Check headspace as mentioned above also.

BTW, Most of my AR's are over gassed, so I put adjustable gas blocks on them. Some people like heavier BCG's, Buffer springs, and or buffers. YMMV...

Again I am NO expert, just guessing.

I ordered the middle weight 3 gun WOA barrel and am waiting for it. I am playing with an ODIN 18" barrel that is pretty accurate so far and I bought a Larue complete upper that is also accurate, but the chamber in the Larue looks rough IMO, functions fine so far. I use a suppressor so I have ADJ gas blocks on them. With the suppressor the brass seems to come out dirtier than when I don't use it.
 
CC,

I am somewhat surprised that you do not have a Hornady Comparator set!!!! You buy one type for measuring base to ogive on seated bullets for die set up. And the other type of body for measuring fired brass vs sizing die set up.

The only tool i know of that gives you a "zero" is the RCBS Precision Mic. Which is an awesome tool. Its hard to justify the cost with the Hornady tool kit covering the whole caliber range for the price of 1 RCBS unit.

Though i recommend it for some things.

I no longer trust Starline brass with what i have been through.

Seems you tried mixed brass in your 16 inch gun, but only Starline in your WOA.

I don't like the bullet set back thing. You know as well as i do that crimping is not necessary for 1 time function.

If you can afford you may consider the Hornady or Sinclair tools?

Also another brand of brass from a company that has been making bottle neck brass cases for awhile.
 
Save a few pieces of fired brass from each of your rifles. After a while you get some sort of an average headspace to compare a new rifle with.

The primer piercing is a bit concerning also....

You have swapped firing pins each time?

The old 308 bolts used to have too large a hole in the bolt vs the small diameter firing pin. This would make the primer flow back into the large hole and aid in the firing pin piercing the primer during the firing sequence.
 
I believe that loading manuals are just a guideline. And some rifles need to go way over max to get working, and some are over pressure way under max.

Just sayin...


You are 1 grain over max with Nosler's data using 77 CC's

Sierra's max is 24.0 grains, which was fired from a NATO chamber not a Wylde.

Not sure what Hornady uses?

I have been shooting those 75 grain Hornady match bullets into and inch or just over an inch at 200 yards. Over and over with 5 shot groups. I love them!!!

My NATO chambers like LC NATO brass, Fed AR Match primers, Hornady 75 grain Match bullets with 23.0 grains of H4895

2675 fps out of a 20 inch 1/7 twist FN CHF chrome lined barrel.

No shine, no pressure. Just good looking fired brass


Edit: I have one rifle barrel chambered in 223 Wylde. I believe it is a factory mistake big time. It is very short throated!!

If i where to load Hornady 55 grain V-max bullets at the the recommend length of 2.200 or so, i would jamming the lands by .030

I doubt that is enough to seat the bullet back in the case? but maybe? I went with bullets with longer ogive's in that rifle, and did not even try the V-max after that measurement.

Every bullet my NATO chambers don't like, the Wylde chamber shoots them amazing.
 
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Just to update this. I did reach out to WOA. They didn't really say much but that I could send the upper to them. Ive had to work the last few days and haven't had a chance to do anything else.

I do have comparators to measure and have also shot mixed, sorted and Starline brass through the WOA. I can't find any measurements that are out of spec.
It started doing it with the sorted 1x fired brass so I switched to Starline since I knew it had never been shot in any other gun.
If I have time I'll do some more experimenting this weekend. Im really hoping to figure it out so I don't have to send it back on my dime. I'll keep this updated
 
Another update. After chronoing a few loads yesterday I discovered this barrel is slower than my 16". Not by much but it's still slower. Keep in mind it's an 18".
Making up loads today I decided to just keep going up in charge weights with TAC and a 77SMK. At 25.2 it shot a .52 5 shot group. I've had a few flukes out of the barrel so I didn't think much of it and decided to shoot it again. It was .7. the third time it was .65. So now I know it can shoot.
I had stopped at 24.5 before. most guns shoot good at 24 or 24.5 grains.
I also tried some 55 gr Varmagedon's loaded with 25 and 25.5 of H335 that shot terrible. Maybe I need to go up to 26 or 26.5.
I ran out of time so I'm not sure if Its just that picky or I need to keep going up in charge weight with every powder and load I've tried.
I've tried TAC, Benchmark, H335, 8208XBR, X-terminator, and I'm sure a few more.
I've never had a barrel I've struggled with like this. It's usually they shoot or they don't.
 
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I shot some more loads today with TAC and 52 SMKs, 53 VMAXs and 75 HPBTs. Its very accurate. It just likes really hot loads. It took a while to get it figured out but I'm very happy now.

I still like the ARP better. I don't think the ARP is more accurate as much as more forgiving. It just shoots everything good. I actually ordered a Melonited ARP barrel a few days ago. They are just really cheap for what you get. I'm hoping it's just as accurate as the Stainless one.
 
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Glad to hear your WOA barrel worked out. Hope your ARP melonite barrel works good for you. I know lots of folks swear by them. I guess I am just the unlucky one as I have owned 4 over the years in two different calibers and not a single one was consistently sub-MOA all were near MOA with developed hand loads. I gave up on them a couple of years ago.
 
I know this thread is kind of old but I wanted to update it. The WOA barrel has really started to shine. It took over 400 rounds for it to really settle down. I'm surprised it took so long but I'm really excited to have it now. I still have the 2 ARP barrels. They are accurate but it seems they aren't as consistant as the WOA. I would've thought the opposite to begin with.
 
I know this thread is kind of old but I wanted to update it. The WOA barrel has really started to shine. It took over 400 rounds for it to really settle down. I'm surprised it took so long but I'm really excited to have it now. I still have the 2 ARP barrels. They are accurate but it seems they aren't as consistant as the WOA. I would've thought the opposite to begin with.
Funny how some barrels behave like that. I bought a 6.8 barrel from MDWS years ago. It was a marginal shooter at about MOA with a few different loads. When it hit the 4 to 500 round mark it started consistently grouping much smaller. Its now my most accurate and consistent barrel in any caliber. On my "good" days my deer hunting load with Speer 115 gr GD'S consistently shoots 1/2 MOA or better out to 300yds which is as far as I've taken them. I'm sure it could do even better with a better "trigger puller" sitting behind it!
 
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