224 Valkyrie for coyotes???

Originally Posted By: Redneckbmxer24Originally Posted By: varminter .223
You certainly aren't going to shoot with a great deal of precision with the xp50 at 500 yards but you can plainly see the coyote good enough to make up for Precision with volume.

But + 2"-2.8" more drop (that has to be doped anyway, too) from 300-500 yards is unacceptable and will mean a miss.

You're hilarious guy.
I thought we established over 500 was not coyote hunting. We're talking digital Optics here not firearms let's stay on topic. As I stated that was number four on that stand the other three were laid out already.
 
Originally Posted By: Redneckbmxer24Originally Posted By: dozer_xjOriginally Posted By: Redneckbmxer24 It doesn't hardly give any performance over 223 unless they're long barrels in which case you can get close to the same result with 223. You can't push pressures like you can in other cartridges because of the case design.



Also an interesting note, if you go to Midway where you can compare the velocities of the factory loads for both in one place and compared the two, the Valkyrie actually achieves the same or slightly higher velocities than the Nosler with the same bullet weight. It also does this with less powder because it's a more efficient (better) case design.



If you are comparing factory loads there might not be that much difference between a 223 and 22 nosler but when hand loading there is.

We shot a 24" 223 and a 22" 22 Nosler over a chrono and the 223 didn't keep up. Not to mention the accuracy went to [beeep] when pushing the 223 hard. Show me a 223 or 224 that will shoot a 55 grain bullet 3500 out of a 22"barrel with any sort of accuracy. I will wait.

But if you start looking at an 18" barrel or bullets over 60 grains the 224 and 22 nosler probably get closer to one another. In central IL I do not see the need to shoot a heavy 22 cal bullet. Its all about shooting laser flat IMO. But out west guys seems to really like the heavy 224 bullets. I just think people get way to ate up on BC for killing coyotes under 300 yards.




The factory Federal 60gr NBT 224V ammo averaged 3380fps out of my 22" Craddock barrel and shot 1/2 minute. I have no doubt that stepping down 5gr in bullet weight and rolling my own I could match that 3500fps with ease.



I just put my buddies Valkyrie through its paces the other day using the exact 60 grain factory ammo that you are referring to. It has a 22" WOA (same barrel length as yours). My Magnetospeed chrono showed an average of 3205 fps. Not quite sure how you are getting 175 fps more velocity out of the same length barrel and I sure can't understand how you would be getting 80 fps more than what is actually published on the box. Especially since factory posted velocities are usually clocked with a 24" barrel and are generally what I would call...........oh, let's just say "a little optimistic". Might wanna check the accuracy of your chrono.
 
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Originally Posted By: losthelegendI am however a little tentative to go with a caliber that has not really caught on and get stuck in a situation where I have a round that is brass prep intensive.

Valkyrie is simple, as should be with anything when you start with good brass. Out of the box I run a Sinclair .22 cal expander mandrel through the necks which straightens up any dented mouths and sets neck tension to a perfect .002" and that's it. Prime, charge, and seat a bullet. I've got no problem maintaining sub 20fps ES's and sub 10fps SD's for 10 shot strings.
 
Originally Posted By: BowhuntOriginally Posted By: Redneckbmxer24Originally Posted By: dozer_xjOriginally Posted By: Redneckbmxer24 It doesn't hardly give any performance over 223 unless they're long barrels in which case you can get close to the same result with 223. You can't push pressures like you can in other cartridges because of the case design.



Also an interesting note, if you go to Midway where you can compare the velocities of the factory loads for both in one place and compared the two, the Valkyrie actually achieves the same or slightly higher velocities than the Nosler with the same bullet weight. It also does this with less powder because it's a more efficient (better) case design.



If you are comparing factory loads there might not be that much difference between a 223 and 22 nosler but when hand loading there is.

We shot a 24" 223 and a 22" 22 Nosler over a chrono and the 223 didn't keep up. Not to mention the accuracy went to [beeep] when pushing the 223 hard. Show me a 223 or 224 that will shoot a 55 grain bullet 3500 out of a 22"barrel with any sort of accuracy. I will wait.

But if you start looking at an 18" barrel or bullets over 60 grains the 224 and 22 nosler probably get closer to one another. In central IL I do not see the need to shoot a heavy 22 cal bullet. Its all about shooting laser flat IMO. But out west guys seems to really like the heavy 224 bullets. I just think people get way to ate up on BC for killing coyotes under 300 yards.




The factory Federal 60gr NBT 224V ammo averaged 3380fps out of my 22" Craddock barrel and shot 1/2 minute. I have no doubt that stepping down 5gr in bullet weight and rolling my own I could match that 3500fps with ease.



I just put my buddies Valkyrie through its paces the other day using the exact 60 grain factory ammo that you are referring to. It has a 22" WOA (same barrel length as yours). My Magnetospeed chrono showed an average of 3205 fps. Not quite sure how you are getting 175 fps more velocity out of the same length barrel and I sure can't understand how you would be getting 80 fps more than what is actually published on the box. Especially since factory posted velocities are usually clocked with a 24" barrel and are generally what I would call...........oh, let's just say "a little optimistic". Might wanna check the accuracy of your chrono.

Lots of ammo can vary a lot and the Rock Creek 5R barrels tend to be on the faster side.

There's nothing wrong with my chrono data, I run a Magnetospeed V3 and all the velocities it has given me has matched up perfectly with the Kestrel custom curves that I run in my match loads. No way it's reading just this one load off and everything else is spot on.

You probably had a slow lot of ammo and the barrel is possibly on the slow side in your barrel too. I only tested one lot of the 60gr (200 rounds total) but I tested two lots of the 75gr and probably a half dozen lots of the 90gr SMK and they were all at or above the box velocity too. One lot of 90gr that I had a couple cases of tracked to the dope all the way to 1350 yards.
 
my questions have been answered. now im just hanging around to see when that guy that claims to be out, but really isn't out, posts again.
tongue_smilie.gif
 
Slicker than snot, you must be psychic. I'm just glad the op was able to sort his way through all this madness and is moving on. He must be a good dude.
 
Originally Posted By: varminter .223I just wish I was shooting at coyotes that shots 2.8 inches off the fur still kill.

For one, you two are comparing two different bullets. Second, you completely ignore the 10" of wind drift gained in his example.

If you are all bent out of shape over 2.8" of drop why are you even wasting time on the 22 cal stuff? Go to a 20 practical shooting the 39gr blitz.
 
Originally Posted By: Captramrod01Originally Posted By: varminter .223I just wish I was shooting at coyotes that shots 2.8 inches off the fur still kill.

For one, you two are comparing two different bullets. Second, you completely ignore the 10" of wind drift gained in his example.

If you are all bent out of shape over 2.8" of drop why are you even wasting time on the 22 cal stuff? Go to a 20 practical shooting the 39gr blitz.
We hunt solely at night with digital Optics and from what I can understand the 20 cals are very sensitive to shot placement. Shot placement seems to be a challenge sometimes with digital optics.
 
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Originally Posted By: Captramrod01Originally Posted By: varminter .223I just wish I was shooting at coyotes that shots 2.8 inches off the fur still kill.

For one, you two are comparing two different bullets. Second, you completely ignore the 10" of wind drift gained in his example.
And I thought this 2.8 inches of drop difference was with a 60 ballistic tip Factory. This 10in of Windrift you speak about what bullet is that with? Are we talkin two different things about two different bullets?
If you are all bent out of shape over 2.8" of drop why are you even wasting time on the 22 cal stuff? Go to a 20 practical shooting the 39gr blitz.
I thought this 2.8 inch of drop was with the 60 Bt? This 10in of Windrift you're talking about what bullet is that with?
Are we talkin drop with a 60 grain bullet and mixing in drift with some high BC long slow bullet?
 
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Originally Posted By: Redneckbmxer24Whatever you need to tell yourself to be right. 22 Nosler sucks and it is what it is.

I know of almost 200 coyotes that would agree with you. LMAO!
 
With a Nosgar you can compare it to taking a valkyrie case and lengthening it where it can hold 3.5gn more water. Same bolt and same case head. When using Hagar brass you can push about 5000psi more than nosler brass which gives the cartridge more performance. Also the Hagar brass improves accuracy tremendously.

I push 55gn projectiles at 3650ish with temp stable H4895, I had achieved more speed when using CFE223 but the temp sensitivity resulted in POI shifts due to speed loss and gains. I sacrificed some speed but gained consistency.

Personally I believe that this combination is the best performance that you can get for predator hunting out of an AR platform currently.

If the 22NXS becomes available how I want it I will swiftly change over.

In 223varminters defense, when a person is coyote hunting there is very limited time to make a decision to shoot. So a slower heavier setup is not viable, because there is not time to figure ballistics and compensate for drop, not to mention The target is moving. The flatter it shoots the higher your success.
Those of us whom actually night hunt know that a shot at 300+ yards is very rare. Most often it will be 50-200yds.

In my opinion based on case capacity and pressure of the valkyrie vs. 5.56NATO/223wylde pushing a projectile of 60gn or less there is virtually no advantage of running a valkyrie over the 5.56/wylde. The same light projectiles can be used in any of the mentioned cartridges and ballistic coefficient doesn't change only speeds do.

If you mostly hunt stationary targets at long ranges off of a bench rest and only occasionally hunt animals then a Valkyrie is a good option.

As long as coyote has legs and has the ablility to run I'll always take the fastest flattest option available.

A bench, a set of bags, range finder, spotter, ballistics calculator and wind flags would be a little inconvenient to carry on a stand. Tom....can you incorporate all of these items into the nightstalker for the valkyrie users?
 
Originally Posted By: BleedsBlueIf you mostly hunt stationary targets at long ranges off of a bench rest and only occasionally hunt animals then a Valkyrie is a good option.




going to be a lot of Valkyrie shooters happy to learn that.
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Originally Posted By: BleedsBlueWith a Nosgar you can compare it to taking a valkyrie case and lengthening it where it can hold 3.5gn more water. Same bolt and same case head. When using Hagar brass you can push about 5000psi more than nosler brass which gives the cartridge more performance. Also the Hagar brass improves accuracy tremendously.

I push 55gn projectiles at 3650ish with temp stable H4895, I had achieved more speed when using CFE223 but the temp sensitivity resulted in POI shifts due to speed loss and gains. I sacrificed some speed but gained consistency.

Personally I believe that this combination is the best performance that you can get for predator hunting out of an AR platform currently.

If the 22NXS becomes available how I want it I will swiftly change over.

In 223varminters defense, when a person is coyote hunting there is very limited time to make a decision to shoot. So a slower heavier setup is not viable, because there is not time to figure ballistics and compensate for drop, not to mention The target is moving. The flatter it shoots the higher your success.
Those of us whom actually night hunt know that a shot at 300+ yards is very rare. Most often it will be 50-200yds.

In my opinion based on case capacity and pressure of the valkyrie vs. 5.56NATO/223wylde pushing a projectile of 60gn or less there is virtually no advantage of running a valkyrie over the 5.56/wylde. The same light projectiles can be used in any of the mentioned cartridges and ballistic coefficient doesn't change only speeds do.

If you mostly hunt stationary targets at long ranges off of a bench rest and only occasionally hunt animals then a Valkyrie is a good option.

As long as coyote has legs and has the ablility to run I'll always take the fastest flattest option available.

A bench, a set of bags, range finder, spotter, ballistics calculator and wind flags would be a little inconvenient to carry on a stand. Tom....can you incorporate all of these items into the nightstalker for the valkyrie users?



So very true. The intended application is critical. Match the application with the right equipment and you will be very happy. try to force something to into a situation that it was not intended for...square peg, round hole.

If you can put rounds on target, you can probably kill a coyote. That said, there are platforms taht are going to do that better than others. Those looking for the "magic bullet" are never going to be satisfied. The search will continue...
 
Sorry for bumping this old thread but I didn't see a newer one worth commenting on.

I recently acquired a 20" 224V and topped it with an iRay Alpha thermal. I bought off-the-shelf Hornady Black 75gr BTHP and I've killed and recovered 8 coyotes with it, most shots being less than 200y. I have lost three coyotes and now that I have around 35 pieces of once fired brass I have started my reloading adventure with 224V.

I went with CFE223. Even after having heard how temp sensitive it is, it seemed like it had a lot of data avaiable and it was available to purchase.

First I started with 60gr Vmax and found a good load pushing them to 3200fps. I know some people love that bullet and others not so much.

I remembered a couple years ago I bought 200 Sierra 55gr GameKings #1365 so I loaded some of them too. I got them going as fast as 3400fps and I think the accuracy will be acceptable to try on coyotes this weekend.

I'm going to load half of my brass with the 60gr vmax and the other half with the 55gr SGK. This weekend I'm going to hit my spots hard so I'm hoping I'll have several opportunities to try both bullets on mutliple coyotes.

I read a lot on this website still. I hope it's always here to reference.
 
I like the Valkyrie. Not the ideal twist but my 6.5 twist 24 inch Faxon shoots 50 gr. V max at 3450 and not hard to keep groups under an inch. I use 29.5 gr. CFE223. Don’t have a runner problem.
 
Update on my 224 Valkyrie thermal hunting coyotes.

I ended killing 30 coyotes this past january with the 224V and the 55gr Sierra Game Kings. I killed a couple with the 60gr VMAX but started experience high pressure issues, blown primers, split case necks etc. I did not experience any of that with the 55gr SGK's. I think I ended up with 7 in February and 3 in March before I quit calling. Pretty decent for me and I know there's going to be plenty out there this fall from what I've been hearing from pumpers and farmers.

I think the 224V has plenty of speed for coyotes from an AR platfrom. Accuracy isn't the best but I really haven't tried to tune a load. I need to get a proper day optic for it and work on that this summer/fall.
 
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