yoteblaster
Active member
Anyone have any results with these out of a AR-15 20 inch barrel on coyotes?
52/55 grain .224 Berger varmint bullets for coyotes
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Rock Knocker
Active member
The 52gr Varmint bullets are crazy soft and wouldnt be suited for an animal over 10lbs, just seating the bullets and lightly crimping the case easily deforms the bullet.
Me and two buddies built the same ARs at the same time and my hand loads were our hunting loads so I've seen a couple others shooting the same exact stuff.
Accuracy is great on the 52s and that's the end of my interest in them, other than the meat wollop sound the bullet makes... if you miss the coyote you hear nothing, when you hit the coyote it sounds like they've been hit with a baseball bat, more so than any bullet I've shot an animal with. When my buddies were shooting in other directions than me I could still hear where the coyotes were as long as my buddies werent missing.
Penetration was so bad I've seen the base of one of the 52gr literally fall out of a nasty fist size entrance hole when skinning, but at the same time broadside shots where still tearing nasty exit holes half the time and hitting foxes with a semi is more fur friendly.
If you want some expensive and fancy hunting bullets go with Barnes TSX or Nosler Partitions, and Sierra game kings are super accurate and priced well. Bullets that soft and designed to frag instantly are a huge handicap to a hunting rifle, got a coyote quartered towards you...? These type of bullet wont handle going through an angled shoulder bone without exploding everything and the coyote still likely running off.
If I wanted to survive being shot by 223, 52gr berger varmints would be my bullet of choice to be shot by.
Me and two buddies built the same ARs at the same time and my hand loads were our hunting loads so I've seen a couple others shooting the same exact stuff.
Accuracy is great on the 52s and that's the end of my interest in them, other than the meat wollop sound the bullet makes... if you miss the coyote you hear nothing, when you hit the coyote it sounds like they've been hit with a baseball bat, more so than any bullet I've shot an animal with. When my buddies were shooting in other directions than me I could still hear where the coyotes were as long as my buddies werent missing.
Penetration was so bad I've seen the base of one of the 52gr literally fall out of a nasty fist size entrance hole when skinning, but at the same time broadside shots where still tearing nasty exit holes half the time and hitting foxes with a semi is more fur friendly.
If you want some expensive and fancy hunting bullets go with Barnes TSX or Nosler Partitions, and Sierra game kings are super accurate and priced well. Bullets that soft and designed to frag instantly are a huge handicap to a hunting rifle, got a coyote quartered towards you...? These type of bullet wont handle going through an angled shoulder bone without exploding everything and the coyote still likely running off.
If I wanted to survive being shot by 223, 52gr berger varmints would be my bullet of choice to be shot by.
alf
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: Rock KnockerThe 52gr Varmint bullets are crazy soft
Probably why Kirsch shoots the 52 Berger Match bullets.
He has shot those for years, and with the numbers he knocks down, he wouldn't shoot those if they didn't perform.
The few I've shot with that bullet at 3550 have worked great.
Probably why Kirsch shoots the 52 Berger Match bullets.
He has shot those for years, and with the numbers he knocks down, he wouldn't shoot those if they didn't perform.
The few I've shot with that bullet at 3550 have worked great.
Rock Knocker
Active member
Ive developed an extreme aversions to varmint bullets. Starting out I went from Fclass reloads then extending to my hunting 223. At first I thought the exploding, sexy plastic tip, high BC, no exit varmint bullets were the way to go. I loved 140VLDs so 52gr varmints were my first choice, then 53 vmax, then 55 hornady softpoints and ended up loving the 65gr SGK.
52gr bergers for coyotes are my least favorite, 53 vmax is almost equally lame but left with nothing but old boring lead nosed Hornady SP on a hunting tip and theres no going back. 65gr SGK hit like a brick and leave a pin prick entrance with a quarter size exit, coyote, fox, rabbit, 30 yards, 300 yards......
Varmint bullets are a finnicky [beeep] that find any way to remove energy as fast as possible and stop inside the animal at the best of times, sometimes they just stop at the bone or frag into large exits.
52gr bergers for coyotes are my least favorite, 53 vmax is almost equally lame but left with nothing but old boring lead nosed Hornady SP on a hunting tip and theres no going back. 65gr SGK hit like a brick and leave a pin prick entrance with a quarter size exit, coyote, fox, rabbit, 30 yards, 300 yards......
Varmint bullets are a finnicky [beeep] that find any way to remove energy as fast as possible and stop inside the animal at the best of times, sometimes they just stop at the bone or frag into large exits.
spotstalkshoot
Well-known member
I would run the Speer 52 hp or the Hornady 50 sx before a Berger varmint, especially out of 1/9 or slower twist 223. Both are accurate, cheaper and will load under mag length. The 50 sx is my favorite carbine bullet, I would not want to get shot by one. I don't want exits.
Way back, we shot 50 or so coyotes with the 55g berger Match bullets out of a Rem 700 V in 22/250, 14 Twist, on a trip to Mexico, We did not have any problems. At that time, they did not make a MEF varmint bullet, and if they had, I would not use them on coyotes.
Rock Knockers experience maybe due to a fast twist, I don't know as he never stated what twist he was using.
Rock Knockers experience maybe due to a fast twist, I don't know as he never stated what twist he was using.
Rock Knocker
Active member
We were using 16" BHW 1-8 twist.
52gr berger varmints with H335(mid 26grs?, 26.5 or 26.2 I cant remember, possibly as low as 25.5gr) and non magnum CCI 400 primers. These were some of the first loads I made for the poly twist BHW barrels, accurate but mild, too mild.
On cold cold nights the guns would sound more like a 22 magnum. CCI 450s would probably help that issue but I switched everything up after that, i went to only Hodgdon extreme powders and CCI 450 and because BHW barrels keep pressures so low i learned i could jiggle and cram as much powder into the cases as possible and get safe pressures while being way over published 223 powder weights. Basically with HBN lube I can move down to the next faster burning powder and add like 2gr more than published data for the slower powder.
Thats how I ended up with my favorite loads. 53 TSX w/ 26.9gr H322, and 65 SGK w/ 26.4gr of Benchmark. I shot the 53gr TSX over a lab radar to get 3330fps from a 16" 223... WITH HBN LUBED BULLETS.
52gr berger varmints with H335(mid 26grs?, 26.5 or 26.2 I cant remember, possibly as low as 25.5gr) and non magnum CCI 400 primers. These were some of the first loads I made for the poly twist BHW barrels, accurate but mild, too mild.
On cold cold nights the guns would sound more like a 22 magnum. CCI 450s would probably help that issue but I switched everything up after that, i went to only Hodgdon extreme powders and CCI 450 and because BHW barrels keep pressures so low i learned i could jiggle and cram as much powder into the cases as possible and get safe pressures while being way over published 223 powder weights. Basically with HBN lube I can move down to the next faster burning powder and add like 2gr more than published data for the slower powder.
Thats how I ended up with my favorite loads. 53 TSX w/ 26.9gr H322, and 65 SGK w/ 26.4gr of Benchmark. I shot the 53gr TSX over a lab radar to get 3330fps from a 16" 223... WITH HBN LUBED BULLETS.
BangPop
Active member
I have to smile when I read discussions about these bullets. I was fortunate to have grown up about 3 miles from Walt Berger when he lived in Overland Park Kansas. This was back in the mid 70's when Walt was making bullets in his basement for benchrest shooters. He taught me bullet making and helped me order my first set of bullet dies. I still have the B&A core cutter he gave me 48 years ago. I was an aspiring coyote hunter and a match shooter. One of the questions I asked of the more experienced shooters was "would those 52 grain match bullets work well on coyotes?" The accuracy was obviously there, but how would they perform? I laugh today at the answers that I got from those 'experienced' guys (most of which probably hadn't killed 3 coyotes in their whole life). The answer was always "don't use them, they will just punch a hole in one side and out the other." I've used my own 52 grain bullets made on J4 target jackets to kill God knows how many hundreds of coyotes. I've never had what I consider a bullet failure. They simply make a deadly bullet in a 12 or 14 twist 22-250. The moral to the story is.... Don't believe everything you read on the internet.
Rock Knocker
Active member
I havent hunted with their match bullets, ive only hunted with the 52 varmints and they were the softest bullets I've ever reloaded. Crimping the case would deform the bullets, seating into an unannealed cases would deform the tip.
As a matter of fact last week I found around 20 of those loads I tossed to the back of my safe, I wasnt going to hunt with them or zero my scope for 20 so I did some tacticool nightvision mag dump on close targets. This batch I hadn't run through a lee crimp die and 1/3 of the 20 didnt feed and got the bullets smashed into the case.
I havent gotten into my photobucket account for a couple years now but I will see if I can post a pick, i dug around the grass to find out what the problem was, it ended up being some good pitch black gun clearing practice.
I would expect the match bullets from a 22-250 would be a complete difference than mild 16" 223 loads with the varmint bullets.
If I was going to go out hunting prairie dogs the berger varmints would be on top of my list, they are very accurate and explosive, two qualities that dont mean a lot hunting 30-100 yards on big furry Minnesota animals.
As a matter of fact last week I found around 20 of those loads I tossed to the back of my safe, I wasnt going to hunt with them or zero my scope for 20 so I did some tacticool nightvision mag dump on close targets. This batch I hadn't run through a lee crimp die and 1/3 of the 20 didnt feed and got the bullets smashed into the case.
I havent gotten into my photobucket account for a couple years now but I will see if I can post a pick, i dug around the grass to find out what the problem was, it ended up being some good pitch black gun clearing practice.
I would expect the match bullets from a 22-250 would be a complete difference than mild 16" 223 loads with the varmint bullets.
If I was going to go out hunting prairie dogs the berger varmints would be on top of my list, they are very accurate and explosive, two qualities that dont mean a lot hunting 30-100 yards on big furry Minnesota animals.
Rock Knocker was using the Berger MEF bullet with a large HP, that is a no no.
Otherwise, the 52g/55g Match bullets are a Honey Lamb when it comes to dumping coyotes in 12 & 14 Twists.
The 22/250 AI, 12T has a been a favorite coyote rifle of mine since the mid 80's. We shot a LOT of different bullets down in Mexico just for giggles and grins to see what worked and did not. We loved to see gaping exit holes which meant no running coyotes.
The 60g Berger Match Hp at 3700 fps, just mangles up coyotes, near and far. I shot a bob cat in half with this load while he was sitting on a pond dam looking at fish.
Please do not confuse the Berger Varmint MEF bullets with the match bullets, for coyotes, pick the Match bullets and never look back for 12 & 14 twists.
The Berger match 55g and 60g are worth building a rifle around in 22/250, AI, and 22 Creed on a 12 Twist.
Twist rate completely changes the expansion characteristics of bullets, especially at high velocity. 7 and 8 twist barrels would dramatically change bullet expansion characteristics, and for coyotes, I do not believe it would be a good thing as Rock Knocker has explained.
Otherwise, the 52g/55g Match bullets are a Honey Lamb when it comes to dumping coyotes in 12 & 14 Twists.
The 22/250 AI, 12T has a been a favorite coyote rifle of mine since the mid 80's. We shot a LOT of different bullets down in Mexico just for giggles and grins to see what worked and did not. We loved to see gaping exit holes which meant no running coyotes.
The 60g Berger Match Hp at 3700 fps, just mangles up coyotes, near and far. I shot a bob cat in half with this load while he was sitting on a pond dam looking at fish.
Please do not confuse the Berger Varmint MEF bullets with the match bullets, for coyotes, pick the Match bullets and never look back for 12 & 14 twists.
The Berger match 55g and 60g are worth building a rifle around in 22/250, AI, and 22 Creed on a 12 Twist.
Twist rate completely changes the expansion characteristics of bullets, especially at high velocity. 7 and 8 twist barrels would dramatically change bullet expansion characteristics, and for coyotes, I do not believe it would be a good thing as Rock Knocker has explained.
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yoteblaster
Active member
Great info, just what I was looking for in info.